Was Muhammad the final prophet?

BilliardsBall · Oct 3, 2017

Muslim-UK said:
What did Jesus pbuh say in this regard?

Mark 10:
17 And as he was setting out on his journey, a man ran up and knelt before him, and asked him, “Good Teacher, what must I do to inherit eternal life?” 18 And Jesus said to him, “Why do you call me good? No one is good but God alone. 19 You know the commandments: ‘Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and mother.’” 20 And he said to him, “Teacher, all these I have observed from my youth.” 21 And Jesus looking upon him loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing; go, sell what you have, and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.” 22 At that saying his countenance fell, and he went away sorrowful; for he had great possessions.

23 And Jesus looked around and said to his disciples, “How hard it will be for those who have riches to enter the kingdom of God!” 24 And the disciples were amazed at his words. But Jesus said to them again, “Children, how hard it is to enter the kingdom of God! 25 It is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter the kingdom of God.” 26 And they were exceedingly astonished, and said to him, “Then who can be saved?” 27 Jesus looked at them and said, “With men it is impossible, but not with God; for all things are possible with God.”

Here we can see you have to put in the effort, to strive and struggle, to follow the commandments and ultimately rely upon the mercy of GOD to obtain salvation.

This is hammered home in the later Gospel of Matthew

Matthew 5:

17 “Think not that I have come to abolish the law and the prophets; I have come not to abolish them but to fulfil them. 18 For truly, I say to you, till heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the law until all is accomplished. 19 Whoever then relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches men so, shall be called least in the kingdom of heaven; but he who does them and teaches them shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Not so different to what is taught in the Qur'an.

So you accept Mark 10 and Matthew 5 but not John 3:16, which says, "Anyone who trusts in me (Jesus Christ) has eternal life and will not perish in Hell."

How do you know that Mark 10 and Matthew 5 are not corrupted but John 3 is corrupted?

Magus · Oct 3, 2017

BilliardsBall said:
I apologize for using a poor word choice. You cannot save yourself from Hell. Jesus saves people from Hell and transforms them to make them ready to enter Heaven.

I'm imperfect and would ruin a utopia. That's right, I'm a born again Christian who still cannot get to Heaven--until the time when the lost (not "saved") are judged and I am transformed and made fit for Heaven.

Do you even know what a Hell is ?

Muslim-UK · Oct 3, 2017

BilliardsBall said:
So you accept Mark 10 and Matthew 5 but not John 3:16, which says, "Anyone who trusts in me (Jesus Christ) has eternal life and will not perish in Hell."

How do you know that Mark 10 and Matthew 5 are not corrupted but John 3 is corrupted?

We know the Synoptic Gospels are more reliable when trying to understand what Jesus pbuh may have said, though I have no problem with John 3:16...

John 3:16Revised Standard Version (RSV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

However given the following verse:

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Could you tell me which world is John 3:16 referring to?

BilliardsBall · Oct 4, 2017

Muslim-UK said:
We know the Synoptic Gospels are more reliable when trying to understand what Jesus pbuh may have said, though I have no problem with John 3:16...

John 3:16Revised Standard Version (RSV)
16 For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

However given the following verse:

Hebrews 1:2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;

Could you tell me which world is John 3:16 referring to?

The people of this world.

BilliardsBall · Oct 4, 2017

Magus said:
Do you even know what a Hell is ?

I'd rather not play more word semantics with you. For example, you attacked the use of the word salvation based on its etymology and not its common English usage.

The Hell is where you and I go unless we are transformed enough to be members of the utopia that is coming.

Magus · Oct 4, 2017

BilliardsBall said:
I'd rather not play more word semantics with you. For example, you attacked the use of the word salvation based on its etymology and not its common English usage.

The Hell is where you and I go unless we are transformed enough to be members of the utopia that is coming.

Why did Christians murder/rape thousands of children?

Scotland
Hundreds of Scottish orphanage children allegedly buried in mass grave

Ireland
Unmarked mass grave for children found at old Catholic orphanage in Ireland

Muslim-UK · Oct 4, 2017

BilliardsBall said:
The people of this world.

The world referred to is the 12 Tribes of Israel...

Romans 9:13 As it is written Jacob have I LOVED. But Esau I have HATED.

Jacob became Israel that beget 12 Tribes. The descendants of Esau became the Edomites.

So God hates one people on the Earth, and yet he loves the whole World? Clearly not:

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded WORLD without end.

Clearly God sent Jesus pbuh to Israel as explained in Acts.

Acts 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

They also twisted the Greek to whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, when it should read whosoever OBEYS him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When Jesus pbuh instructed his Disciples to go out into the world;

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations..."

We know these were the 12 nations of Israel, 10 of which were scattered. This proves Jesus pbuh only came for the Jews:

Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Yes he did grant Heaven with the permission of God to some non Jews, but he certainly didn't come with a view to saving the World, rather you have to follow Paul to find a misplaced form of salvation that does away with the teachings of Jesus pbuh. Paul turns the 'Law' (Torah) on its head, which is why when the Gentiles run up to Jesus pbuh in the hereafter;

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’ <<< ouch!

BilliardsBall · Oct 5, 2017

Muslim-UK said:
The world referred to is the 12 Tribes of Israel...

Romans 9:13 As it is written Jacob have I LOVED. But Esau I have HATED.

Jacob became Israel that beget 12 Tribes. The descendants of Esau became the Edomites.

So God hates one people on the Earth, and yet he loves the whole World? Clearly not:

Isaiah 45:17 But Israel shall be saved in the Lord with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded WORLD without end.

Clearly God sent Jesus pbuh to Israel as explained in Acts.

Acts 13:23 Of this man's seed hath God according to his promise raised unto Israel a Saviour, Jesus:

24 When John had first preached before his coming the baptism of repentance to all the people of Israel.

They also twisted the Greek to whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life, when it should read whosoever OBEYS him should not perish, but have everlasting life.

When Jesus pbuh instructed his Disciples to go out into the world;

Matthew 28:19 "Go therefore and make disciples of all nations..."

We know these were the 12 nations of Israel, 10 of which were scattered. This proves Jesus pbuh only came for the Jews:

Matthew 15:24 He answered, “I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.”

Yes he did grant Heaven with the permission of God to some non Jews, but he certainly didn't come with a view to saving the World, rather you have to follow Paul to find a misplaced form of salvation that does away with the teachings of Jesus pbuh. Paul turns the 'Law' (Torah) on its head, which is why when the Gentiles run up to Jesus pbuh in the hereafter;

Matthew 7:22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’ <<< ouch!

No. The world is people.

Matthew 4:8
Again, the devil took Him up on an exceedingly high mountain, and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory.

There was one Israel kingdom, not "all of them". The current one of the time was under Rome.

Acts 11:28
Then one of them, named Agabus, stood up and showed by the Spirit that there was going to be a great famine throughout all the world, which also happened in the days of Claudius Caesar.

We can identify this is not an Israel famine only.

Acts 17:24
“God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands.

Ephesians 2:2
in which you once walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, the spirit who now works in the sons of disobedience,

Satan is only for Israel? Do you believe that after reading the Qu'ran?

Etc.

We can go over the rest of your Bible "interpretations" above but first we have to establish how you know the verses you cited re: Esau and etc. are true, rather than corrupted, per the Noble Qu'ran! As a matter of practice, I cannot accept any interpretation you provide until you demonstrate how you know the verses you are interpreting are true verses.

BilliardsBall · Oct 5, 2017

Magus said:
Why did Christians murder/rape thousands of children?

Scotland
Hundreds of Scottish orphanage children allegedly buried in mass grave

Ireland
Unmarked mass grave for children found at old Catholic orphanage in Ireland

What does this have to do with what we've discussed?

Magus · Oct 5, 2017

Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. ??

Torah doesn't say ruddy Esau (Adam) was hated.

Time to throw that New Testament into the shredder.

DavidFirth · Oct 5, 2017

Magus said:
Romans 9:13 As it is written, Jacob have I loved, but Esau have I hated. ??

Torah doesn't say ruddy Esau (Adam) was hated.

Time to throw that New Testament into the shredder.

Go for it, buddy. I have several copies of it and they ain't going into a shredder unless you put me in the shredder first.

DavidFirth · Oct 5, 2017

BilliardsBall said:
What does this have to do with what we've discussed?

It doesn't. I have to wonder whether or not his elevator makes it to the top floor.

Faithofchristian · Oct 8, 2017

It says in Muslims q'uran that muhammad is the last prophet.

Then in the bible Jesus mention as John the Baptist as being the Greatest of all the Prophets.

First whether people knows this or not there are two kinds of Prophets.

The one being the Holy Prophets, these being the ones that God gave Inspiration to write down the Scriptures.

The other prophets are those which are called the minor prophets, they don't write down anything that has already been written down.
They only bring more to understand what the Holy Prophet's have written down.

The Holy Prophet's were given to Write the changing of the Covenant.
Therefore John the Baptist being the last of the Holy Prophet's of God.

But if you were to ask a Muslim, they would tell you that the bible copied from the Q'uran.

But then the bible it's self dates back to 3000 yrs to Moses and the Q'uran only dates back to 625 after Christ Jesus.

So who copied who ?

Was Muhammad the final prophet?

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