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Did Jesus Fulfill All The Messianic Prophecies?

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
I believe a person has to be extremely biased to think that Jesus does not fit the prophecies well.
And I believe a person has to be extremely biased to believe that a person has to be extremely biased to think that Jesus does not fit the prophecies.

And to save you the need to reply, I'm sure you believe that a person has to be extremely biased to believe that person has to be extremely biased to believe that a person has to be extremely biased to think that Jesus does not fit the prophecies.

Of course, then I would have to respond...........
 
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Magus

Active Member

An example is the word ' Palestine '

1 Samuel 17:10
And the Philistine said, I defy the armies of Israel this day; give me a man, that we may fight together.

That word in the Masoretic that you read, that's an interpolation, the actual word used in the Septuagint is ἀλλόφυλος (Allopulos), the Septuagint clearly distinguishes that word with Palestine.

Genesis 21:34
And Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land many days.

The Greek word here is Φυλιστιιμ ( Pulistim )

It seems the Masoretic ( only dates 10th Century CE ) changed that word for there own political gain, in order to bring suffering upon the Palestinians ( Genuine Semite people).
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
And I believe a person has to be extremely biased to believe that a person has to be extremely biased to think that Jesus does not fit the prophecies.

And to save you the need to reply, I'm sure you believe that a person has to be extremely biased to believe that person has to be extremely biased to believe that a person has to be extremely biased to think that Jesus does not fit the prophecies.

Of course, then I would have to respond...........

I can believe a biased person would believe that but your belief has no foundation in fact.

I believe you anticipate well but the point is not that one person believes that but whether they have reasons to believe that. Ihave given you no reason to believe that and you have given me no current reason to believe that about you but you do realize I was speaking in general about people and not you specifically. I have seen posts from you in the past that lead me to believe you take a less than rational approach but welcome you to attempt to be rational.

I love debating you so be my guest but I suggest we go through the prophecies one by one starting with Isa 53 instead of debating who is rational and who is not.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
An example is the word ' Palestine '

1 Samuel 17:10
And the Philistine said, I defy the armies of Israel this day; give me a man, that we may fight together.

That word in the Masoretic that you read, that's an interpolation, the actual word used in the Septuagint is ἀλλόφυλος (Allopulos), the Septuagint clearly distinguishes that word with Palestine.

Genesis 21:34
And Abraham sojourned in the Philistines' land many days.

The Greek word here is Φυλιστιιμ ( Pulistim )

It seems the Masoretic ( only dates 10th Century CE ) changed that word for there own political gain, in order to bring suffering upon the Palestinians ( Genuine Semite people).

I believe the Philistines were not Semitic and not even Adamic but were Caucasians. I believe they were related in ethnicity with the Phoenicians. That s why you find them along the coast since they were traditionally a seafaring people.
 

Magus

Active Member
I believe the Philistines were not Semitic and not even Adamic but were Caucasians. I believe they were related in ethnicity with the Phoenicians. That s why you find them along the coast since they were traditionally a seafaring people.

ή πάραλος γῆ - e Paralos Ge
πελασ-γοί - Pelas - Goi ( Palestine / Pelasgoi )
' People of the Coast land '
 

Magus

Active Member
They are no prophecies in the Old Testament, a 'Prophet , implies Psychic and they don't exist, No Ancient Scribes were writing about events hundreds of years in the future.

I being studying the Book of Isaiah for quite sometime, Since that is the Oldest Biblical book, it documents the Fall of Tyre and the rise of Alexander the Great( Cyrus Masia)' Κύριος της Ασίας ( Isaiah 45:1) thus post-3rd century BCE.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
They are no prophecies in the Old Testament, a 'Prophet , implies Psychic and they don't exist, No Ancient Scribes were writing about events hundreds of years in the future.

I being studying the Book of Isaiah for quite sometime, Since that is the Oldest Biblical book, it documents the Fall of Tyre and the rise of Alexander the Great( Cyrus Masia)' Κύριος της Ασίας ( Isaiah 45:1) thus post-3rd century BCE.

.

You certainly do have a unique and weird way of interpreting the Bible, I'll give you that much.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Failing to see it written on the stone that 'it shall go out and deceive the whole world'...Where is this idea coming from, Daniel 7?

I don't see ' deceiver' in connection to Zechariah 3:9 but I do see the ' stone ' mentioned at Daniel 2:34-35,45.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
I believe you are correct. Some prophecies will only be filled when Jesus returns.

To me Matthew 25:31-33,37 'will be' filled or fulfilled at this soon coming ' time of separation ' to take place on Earth.
We have yet to see the fulfillment of 1 Thessalonians 5:2-3 when ' they ' (powers that be) will be saying, " Peace and Security " which will turn out to really be the precursor to the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:14 before Jesus, as Prince of Peace' will usher in global Peace on Earth among persons of goodwill.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
No, but try to convince me he did anyway.

One of the unusual Messianic predictions is that something strange would occur around the conception and birth of Messiah.

Isaiah 7:14

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

I am almost certain that the word "virgin" in Hebrew.... means young unmarried woman......
I am a Christian who believes that the Ruach ha Kodesh, the Holy Spirit.... overshadowed Mary the Mother of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and told her.......
to go and sleep with her espoused husband Joseph... so that Yeshua - Jesus and his identical twin older brother Judas Didymus Thomas would be born at the correct time..........

The Holy Spirit is claiming authority over exactly how to interpret the Sabbath law..... by healing through Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus on the Sabbath and.....
the Holy Spirit/ Ruach ha Kodesh is claiming authority over marriage......
because many people do not have the luxury to obey the exceptionally strict Essene rules on marriage that Mary and Joseph were attempting to obey.... until the Holy Spirit intervened.

The presence of nothing unusual about the conception of Simon Bar Kochba should have been a major sign to Rabbi Akiva... that Simon Bar Kochba could not be the Moshiach.

The alternative theory on the conception timing for Yeshua and Thomas is explained here around page 60 or so:

The Thomas Book
 

whirlingmerc

Well-Known Member
One of the unusual Messianic predictions is that something strange would occur around the conception and birth of Messiah.

Isaiah 7:14

"Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel."

I am almost certain that the word "virgin" in Hebrew.... means young unmarried woman......
I am a Christian who believes that the Ruach ha Kodesh, the Holy Spirit.... overshadowed Mary the Mother of Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus and told her.......
to go and sleep with her espoused husband Joseph... so that Yeshua - Jesus and his identical twin older brother Judas Didymus Thomas would be born at the correct time..........

The Holy Spirit is claiming authority over exactly how to interpret the Sabbath law..... by healing through Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus on the Sabbath and.....
the Holy Spirit/ Ruach ha Kodesh is claiming authority over marriage......
because many people do not have the luxury to obey the exceptionally strict Essene rules on marriage that Mary and Joseph were attempting to obey.... until the Holy Spirit intervened.

The presence of nothing unusual about the conception of Simon Bar Kochba should have been a major sign to Rabbi Akiva... that Simon Bar Kochba could not be the Moshiach.

The alternative theory on the conception timing for Yeshua and Thomas is explained here around page 60 or so:

The Thomas Book
Thomas was not an older brother of Jesus. Prophesies may have an immediate near term fulfillment and a far range fulfillment and in the case of Isaih there was an immediate fulfillment with Isaiah's children and a long range fulfillment more ultimately in Jesus where it was a virgin birth

Joshua 20 speaks of cities of refuge to go to until the high priest dies. That points forward to a greater refuge that a great high priest who will never die provides, his name being Jesus.
 

Kelly of the Phoenix

Well-Known Member
Before the time of the mashiach, there shall be war and suffering (Ezekiel 38:16)
Well, gee, that narrows it down. :)

He will establish a government in Israel that will be the center of all world government, both for Jews and gentiles (Isaiah 2:2-4; 11:10; 42:1).
From what I understand, the current Israeli government is so ... enamored ... of the fundamentalist Jews there that even "normal" Jews can't get a decent break there, much less Christians or Muslims or whatever.

He will rebuild the Temple and re-establish its worship (Jeremiah 33:18).
Why? Sure, there's the economic perks, but God didn't need a Temple to begin with. And again, there will end up being fights about which kind of Jews are good enough to worship there. It's more trouble than it's worth.

He will restore the religious court system of Israel and establish Jewish law as the law of the land (Jeremiah 33:15)."
A law that forces women to go to the other side of the street or else get attacked by men who think girls have cooties is a bad law.

"Olam Ha-Ba will be characterized by the peaceful co-existence of all people (Isaiah 2:4). Hatred, intolerance and war will cease to exist.
Completely impossible if the stuff above happens first.

Others, however, say that these statements are merely an allegory for peace and prosperity."
I believe it's allegory, but then again, I've seen some rather charming "predator loves prey in a nice way" type videos on youtube. :)

Yes, the 'heart can lie' according to Jeremiah 17:9 because Scripture teaches one's heart is treacherous.
And yet the heart created the very same scriptures. Hmmmm ...

Don't you hate it when authors paint themselves into a corner?

He is the great high priest who's anointing binds the church together in brotherly love and who sends the dew of the Ruach Harchol, the Holy Spirit, regularly from afar
But there are tens of thousands of denominations, so clearly he kinda sucked at that.
 

DennisTate

Active Member
Thomas was not an older brother of Jesus. Prophesies may have an immediate near term fulfillment and a far range fulfillment and in the case of Isaih there was an immediate fulfillment with Isaiah's children and a long range fulfillment more ultimately in Jesus where it was a virgin birth

Joshua 20 speaks of cities of refuge to go to until the high priest dies. That points forward to a greater refuge that a great high priest who will never die provides, his name being Jesus.

Yes.. Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus is Messiah the Passover Lamb....
and King of kings....
and Lord of lords....
and the greatest High Priest.... even above Moses... but much like him in so many ways....

But in order for Christianity and Judaism to come together as we must before the year 2028 or 2029..... in order to be ready for 2030.......
we Christians must do some rapid research and face some serious cognitive dissonance:

Could Rabbi Yeshua - Jesus really have said this?
 

RabbiO

הרב יונה בן זכריה
I am almost certain that the word "virgin" in Hebrew.... means young unmarried woman......

The Hebrew word for "virgin" does not appear in Isaiah 7:14. Furthermore, the Hebrew word for virgin does not mean "young unmarried woman."
 

DennisTate

Active Member
The Hebrew word for "virgin" does not appear in Isaiah 7:14. Furthermore, the Hebrew word for virgin does not mean "young unmarried woman."
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, an almah shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu'el."

OK... so what is the meaning of the word "almah?"

Is this accurate?

The Septuagint translation of the Hebrew Scriptures, which was completed in the late 2nd century BCE, translated almah into Greek as παρθένος (parthenos), which generally means "virgin". For example, the Hebrew word "betulah" for "virgin" is translated as "parthenon" in Exodus 22:16 in the Septuagint.


Almah (עַלְמָה‎ ‘almāh, plural: ‘ălāmōṯ עֲלָמוֹת‎) is a Hebrew word for a maiden or woman of childbearing age who may be unmarried or married.[1] It does not, in and of itself, indicate whether she is a virgin, for which a different Hebrew word betulah is used. The Septuagint version of the Old Testament renders both Hebrew words almah and betulah as the same Greek word parthenos. The term occurs nine times in the Hebrew Bible.
 

Poisonshady313

Well-Known Member
"Therefore the Lord himself will give you a sign: behold, an almah shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanu'el."

OK... so what is the meaning of the word "almah?"
Young woman.

I'd like to point out that the Septuagint uses the word parthenos to refer to Dinah, a victim of rape (not a virgin).

I challenge you, based on the fact that Dinah is called "parthenos" in Genesis 34:3, to find any English translation of the Bible that uses the word "virgin" in Genesis 34:3.
 
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