so what do the nations look to for peace? they look to organizations that claim to represent the kingdom of God on the earth, and even the religious leaders claim that this organization represents Gods kingdom on the earth . but this beast is a counterfiet. but some are not misled , they know that this beast is not representing Gods kingdom on the earth . but many have been misled by it, because their so called religious leaders have made the claim that it represents Gods kingdom on the earth ,and that is a lie.lunamoth said:
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
The Book of Revelation
- Thread starter onmybelief
- Start date
Super Universe
Defender of God
may said:
God does not punish, He does not kill or send His agents to kill, God creates.
We are not living in a crooked or twisted generation. Man today has the same problems as before living beside other humans.
God will not step into the affairs of man. Why would He give us free will then take it from us when we still have so much to learn?
The earth takes care of itself. It is like a living thing and it will change and evolve in order to adjust to the miniscule changes we have made.
Instead of promoting fear why not see hope?
we can choose to believe the bible promises or we can choose not too, and for me i see hope, not fear. and promoting the promises of the God of the bible is what i like to do. what a wonderful hope the bible holds out to those who want peace. the prince of peace(Jesus Christ) will bring peace to the earth . but it will only come about through his heavenly kingdom goverment. so that is the way to go for me.Super Universe said:
Our Father in the heavens, let your name be sanctified. Let your kingdom come. Let your will take place, as in heaven, also upon earth... matthew 6;9-10 yes the kingdom is now well established in the heavens , there is complete harmony in the heavenly goverment , all the opposers have been cast out . and the same will happen on the earth , then only PEACE
lunamoth
Will to love
may said:
In which passage of Rev does it say "the organization to which the nations look to bring peace is the Beast?"
Really, if a person or organization unambigiously promotes peace and loving-kindness, is it not blasphemy against the Spirit to say that they are from Satan?
luna
There is only one thing that will bring true peace to the earth ,and that is Gods heavenly kingdom goverment. in the book of revelation beasts are symbolic of political organizationslunamoth said:
The Wild Beasts of Daniel and of Revelation. described in these books represent political kingdoms or governments, exercising rulership and authority, is clearly stated. (Da 7:6, 12, 23; 8:20-22; Re 16:10; 17:3, 9-12) A consideration of the Biblical passages reveals that, while these political wild beasts vary in symbolic form, yet all have certain characteristics in common. All are shown as standing in opposition to Gods rule by the Messianic Kingdom over mankind. They are also depicted as in opposition to Gods "holy ones," his covenant people, first the Jewish nation, then the Christian congregation.
the point i was trying to make , is that the religious leaders of christendom,should be looking to Gods heavenly kingdom goverment for peace , but instead they look to human means, yes the organizations of men may be doing their best , but because it is not the thing that the religious leaders of christendom should be looking to for peace . they are going away from the true source of peace. and at the same time leading their flocks away from the heavenly kingdom goverment .lunamoth said:
"The Purposes of the United Nations are: 1. To maintain international peace and security."Charter of the United Nations.
This is a commendable ideal, to say the least. But as we have seen the results of the last 40 years make it evident that the United Nations has not succeeded in maintaining international peace and securityThere is only one way that lasting peace and security will be brought to this earththrough Gods Kingdom in the hands of Jesus Christ. This is the real government in heaven for which Jesus taught his followers to pray. (Matthew 6:9, 10)
one reason why the United Nations was doomed to failure is that God did not give man the wisdom or right to govern himself. (Jeremiah 10:23) so, no man-made organization, however well intentioned, can succeed in bringing peace and security.
Another major reason why the United Nations efforts to bring peace are doomed is the influence of "the ruler of this world," Satan the Devil. (John 12:31) He and his demonic hordes know that they have only "a short period of time" before they are to be removed. Determined to cause "woe for the earth," they have stood in the way of peace by dividing mankind politically and nationally.Revelation 12:9-12.
In refreshing contrast, the Kingdom that will bring peace and security is pictured in Revelation 12:5 as a "child" of God. Its ruler mirrors Gods characteristics.
In removing man-made governments, Gods Kingdom will do away with divisive nationalism. In its place "a new earth," a righteously disposed human society, will thrive under a single heavenly government, Gods Kingdom. Then, and only then, will mankind be able to enjoy genuine peace and security worldwide.
Jehovahs Witnesses firmly believe that the United Nations is going to play a major role in world events in the very near future. No doubt these developments will be very exciting. And the results will have a far-reaching impact on our life.
The Bible clearly paints a picture showing that the United Nations will very shortly be given power and authority. The UN will then do some very astonishing things that may well amaze you. but the question is ,.........who do we put our trust in?
Yes, where is the world going? Will there ever be a world without war? If so, what role will the United Nations play in it? Moreover, if you are God-fearing, you should ask, What role will God play in it?
lunamoth
Will to love
You are going to have to be more specific if we are going to discuss this mee. Which religious leaders? All of them? How does one look to God's heavenly kingdom for peace? What exactly does one do? I don't know about you, but I certainly believe that Christ has been with us eternally and that He is the Prince of Peace, the source of peace that passes all understanding.may said:
I don't think that the 'religoius leaders of christendom' look to 'organizations of men' for peace. I think they use the best discernment they have to support peacful actions when and where they identify them. I know of no credible Christian leader who has blindly thrown the lot of their faith into a human government or organization. In fact, most of them exhort the secular world leaders to principles of peace and social justice. Do you have examples to the contrary?
Exactly how, would you say, are they are doing this? You keep saying it over and over, but I see no evidence for it.
OK, so they are not perfect and they are far from having the cooperation of nations that is required to fulfill this purpose. Does that mean it is wrong that this is their mandate?
I pray this multiple times daily.
It's a pretty big leap in interpretation from acknowledging God's providence in Jeremiah to saying that the UN (and all human governments) are doomed to failure and we should not even bother to attempt to govern human affairs. IMV it is more accurate to say that Jeremiah means whatever success we have in just government and whatever wisdom we manage to show comes from God and in following God's advice.
When Jesus said that he was talking about His death and resurrection. Notice the present tense of the sentence? Satan is already underfoot and we have nothing to fear from him.
He and his demonic hordes know that they have only "a short period of time" before they are to be removed. Determined to cause "woe for the earth," they have stood in the way of peace by dividing mankind politically and nationally.Revelation 12:9-12.
In refreshing contrast, the Kingdom that will bring peace and security is pictured in Revelation 12:5 as a "child" of God. Its ruler mirrors Gods characteristics.
In removing man-made governments, Gods Kingdom will do away with divisive nationalism. In its place "a new earth," a righteously disposed human society, will thrive under a single heavenly government, Gods Kingdom. Then, and only then, will mankind be able to enjoy genuine peace and security worldwide.
Jehovahs Witnesses firmly believe that the United Nations is going to play a major role in world events in the very near future. No doubt these developments will be very exciting. And the results will have a far-reaching impact on our life.
The Bible clearly paints a picture showing that the United Nations will very shortly be given power and authority. The UN will then do some very astonishing things that may well amaze you. but the question is ,.........who do we put our trust in?
Yes, where is the world going? Will there ever be a world without war? If so, what role will the United Nations play in it? Moreover, if you are God-fearing, you should ask, What role will God play in it?
[/quote]
lunamoth
Will to love
You are going to have to be more specific if we are going to discuss this mee. Which religious leaders? All of them? How does one look to God's heavenly kingdom for peace? What exactly does one do? I don't know about you, but I certainly believe that Christ has been with us eternally and that He is the Prince of Peace, the source of peace that passes all understanding.may said:
I don't think that the 'religoius leaders of christendom' look to 'organizations of men' for peace. I think they use the best discernment they have to support peacful actions when and where they identify them. I know of no credible Christian leader who has blindly thrown the lot of their faith into a human government or organization. In fact, most of them exhort the secular world leaders to principles of peace and social justice. Do you have examples to the contrary?may said:
Exactly how, would you say, are they are doing this? You keep saying it over and over, but I see no evidence for it.may said:
OK, so they are not perfect and they are far from having the cooperation of nations that is required to fulfill this purpose. Does that mean it is wrong that this is their mandate?may said:
I pray this multiple times daily.may said:
It's a pretty big leap in interpretation from acknowledging God's providence in Jeremiah to saying that the UN (and all human governments) are doomed to failure and we should not even bother to attempt to govern human affairs. IMV it is more accurate to say that Jeremiah means whatever success we have in just government and whatever wisdom we manage to show comes from God and in following God's advice.may said:
When Jesus said that he was talking about His death and resurrection. Notice the present tense of the sentence? Satan is already underfoot and we have nothing to fear from him. So, while the tempter and deceiver can still keep throwing his monkey wrenches, he can't triumph. He's already lost.may said:
Agreed. But you realize this is a metaphor, right?may said:
I agree that the Kingdom of God is not a religion nor a human government. Let me rephrase the above: In refreshing contrast, the Kingdom brings peace and security. We are children of God; in the Kingdom we mirror God's characteristics. As we transcend our divisions, the Kingdom of God is not created or built by human hands, but revealed. The child in Rev 12:5 is of course Christ, yet as we reveal Christ within us we also manifest the Kingdom.
So you also take this to mean that humans can make no progress towards peace until Christ returns? This sounds more like the kind of thing the enemy would very much like us to believe.may said:
may said:
I don't see the UN mentioned anywhere in the Bible. I take it that you conjecture that the UN is one of the Beasts of Revelation. So there are two beasts and we can look at them both. I'll do that in the next post.
"To you O Lord I lift up my soul, I put my trust in You."may said:
may said:
You are right about one thing mee. We look to God for peace, not to the world. But God's peace is now.
33"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world." (John 16)
20Once, having been asked by the Pharisees when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus replied, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, 21nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within[b] you." (Luke 17)
luna
Booko
Deviled Hen
Given a choice between Christendom doing what it can to foster peace (Blessed are the peacemakers), and not doing what I can, well, that's not much of a choice, is it?may said:
All that shows is that the UN is not the gov't of God's Kingdom on Earth. It does not follow that the UN is evil or utterly worthless, though.
Where be the demonic hordes?
How is the UN the "ruler" of anything? If that were really so, there would not be so much flaunting of resolutions, and yet there's plenty of that.
The UN has divided mankind politically and nationally? Come again?
Uh, May, I hope you realize that it doesn't take any prescience at all to realize this...
Where does it say "UN"?
Yes. The books of the major religions all look forward to such a time.
That remains to be seen.
Actually, when I manage to be God-fearing, I ask "What role will I play in it?"
I don't expect God to wave a magic wand and take care of all of our self-induced problems w/o some involvement from us. I *do* expect Him to give us directions, guidance, and the spiritual power to do our jobs.
Super Universe
Defender of God
Roli: True, I was not there to verify what John actually saw in his dream. But neither were you, nor your priest, nor anyone else who attempts to interpret it.
Can you explain further this 'seer gift'?
I would hardly be shaken up by your friends future predictions. Why would I be afraid of anything that is coming?
Judgement day is for you, not for humanity. We all will not be judged together. You will have to answer for what you have done on the earth. And God does not do this judging. You don't go from the earth to heaven, how could you? You don't even know how the universe works. What use would you be in heaven? There are many schoolhouses in between.
The earth is not in judgement. It is good and known as a beautiful home to many forms of material life. The earth is changing because there is a schedule that it must meet. It must evolve but not in the way you think of evolution. It is going to a higher vibration, the fourth dimensional state.
I said "this time of awakening is coming," how do you interpret this to mean that I do not believe in biblical prophecy?
Can you explain further this 'seer gift'?
I would hardly be shaken up by your friends future predictions. Why would I be afraid of anything that is coming?
Judgement day is for you, not for humanity. We all will not be judged together. You will have to answer for what you have done on the earth. And God does not do this judging. You don't go from the earth to heaven, how could you? You don't even know how the universe works. What use would you be in heaven? There are many schoolhouses in between.
The earth is not in judgement. It is good and known as a beautiful home to many forms of material life. The earth is changing because there is a schedule that it must meet. It must evolve but not in the way you think of evolution. It is going to a higher vibration, the fourth dimensional state.
I said "this time of awakening is coming," how do you interpret this to mean that I do not believe in biblical prophecy?
ALifetimeToWaitFor....
Myriad
First off John didn't see his visions in a dream they were in a waking state. Second Revelations is meant to be read on the 7th level only, like Genesis. Its not a literal book, but a book you really need to study figuratively to get. The church greatly debated even using it in the cannonical sense because of its liability to be misused, which is probably why it actually got accepted. It has been used by the church to scare the weak minded into submission.
Super Universe
Defender of God
TimetoWasteTimeToWait said:
What support can you provide that John had these visions in waking state?
There is debate whether the John who claimed to have written 'The Revelations of Jesus Christ' was John the Baptist or another man named John.
What is 7th level?
ALifetimeToWaitFor....
Myriad
Rev 1:1 "This is of the revelation of Jesus Christ, which God gave to him, to show his servants what soon must happen. And Jesus sent his angel to show it to his servant John."
Angels are normally received in a waking state throughout the Bible. Secondly the way the rights it if its not all fabricated would take an incredible amount of memory to account for if written after a dream in which it is hard to remember specific details especially something as detailed and done with such imagery. Chances are he wrote these things as he was seeing them or hearing them from the mouth of God, found in his own body. Just speculation but I think it offers more than the dream theory.
The 7th level, or the 4th level in some traditions, symbolizes the mystic underlying truths. Casting aside completely the words at face value. Not combining the two but looking past and realizing something deeper.
Angels are normally received in a waking state throughout the Bible. Secondly the way the rights it if its not all fabricated would take an incredible amount of memory to account for if written after a dream in which it is hard to remember specific details especially something as detailed and done with such imagery. Chances are he wrote these things as he was seeing them or hearing them from the mouth of God, found in his own body. Just speculation but I think it offers more than the dream theory.
The 7th level, or the 4th level in some traditions, symbolizes the mystic underlying truths. Casting aside completely the words at face value. Not combining the two but looking past and realizing something deeper.
Let us not forget that the United Nations is the successor of the League of Nations, and that during its existence before World War II the League of Nations was religiously called the "political expression of the kingdom of God on earth." and it was called this by the leaders of christendom. this is blaspemy. because it is not . so they were putting their trust in manmade things , and claiming that it is from God. yes the book of revelation is for our day , we have been in the lords day since 1914.
The Bible book of Revelation describes a vision of "a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names." It exists for a while, then goes into an abyss from which it later arises. (Revelation 17:3, 8) this scarlet-colored beast was initially, the League of Nations and, subsequently, its successor, the United Nations. But why is the scarlet-colored beast said to be "full of blasphemous names"?
church leaders have labeled the UN "the sole hope" for peace and "the last hope."
Ascribing to human organizations things that Gods Kingdom alone will accomplish is blasphemous.
the Bible foretells that after a short existence, the United Nations will go "off into destruction." Only Gods perfect heavenly government can bring lasting peace to mankind.Revelation 17:11, 12; Isaiah 9:6, 7; Daniel 2:44.
The Bible book of Revelation describes a vision of "a scarlet-colored wild beast that was full of blasphemous names." It exists for a while, then goes into an abyss from which it later arises. (Revelation 17:3, 8) this scarlet-colored beast was initially, the League of Nations and, subsequently, its successor, the United Nations. But why is the scarlet-colored beast said to be "full of blasphemous names"?
church leaders have labeled the UN "the sole hope" for peace and "the last hope."
Ascribing to human organizations things that Gods Kingdom alone will accomplish is blasphemous.
the Bible foretells that after a short existence, the United Nations will go "off into destruction." Only Gods perfect heavenly government can bring lasting peace to mankind.Revelation 17:11, 12; Isaiah 9:6, 7; Daniel 2:44.
ALifetimeToWaitFor....
Myriad
Is God's will not accomplished through man?