• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Did Jesus Fulfill All The Messianic Prophecies?

Magus

Active Member

rosends

Well-Known Member
I have an ever growing list of words that sound alike in Hebrew and English and which mean much the same thing but which, are to the best of my research, etymologically unrelated. I particularly like "eved" and "obeyed."
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
All you have to do is replace the word Hebrew with the more accurate word, 'Phoenician' whom Jews literally believe, never existed.
Hebrew and Phoenician were two separate languages belonging to two separate cultures. Also, where do you get that the Jews don't believe the Phoenicians existed? They're mentioned numerous times in the Bible by name as having traded with Israel and Judah.

Cádiz
- One of the oldest city in western Europe
- Founded by Phoenicians ( from Tyre)

Carthage
- Founded by Phoenicians

Here is the Ancient Etruscan Script
etruscan_sign_list.gif


They were dozens of 'Phoenician' colonies all around the Mediterranean and the Latin and Greek Alphabet
is an evolved Phoenician script, as is your English Alphabet.

You gonna deny the ENTIRE history of the Phoenicians?
This isn't about the Phoenicians. Even if the writing systems used by Greeks, Latins and Hebrews were derived from Phoenician script, this by no means implies that the languages themselves are. For centuries Japanese and Korean were both written exclusively using Chinese characters, and yet neither of these languages belong to the Sino-Tibetan language family, of which the various Chinese languages are members. Mongolian is often written in the Cyrillic alphabet, yet it isn't a Slavic alphabet. Heck, Aleutian is also historically written in Cyrillic, and it's a Native American language.

Also, it is a fact that France was once a Celtic nation a very long time ago, and the French are largely descended from the original Gaulic peoples who lived back then. Yet the French don't speak a Celtic language, but rather a Romance language. Genetic descent has nothing to do with language evolution.

I have found cognates for hundreds of Hebrew words with European languages.
This is mostly my own work and i will write an entire secular Lexicon .
And what training do you have in Greek or Hebrew? What experience do you have with linguistics? What are your credentials? Where did you study? From whom did you learn? From where are you getting your information? Why should I trust your lexicon?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I did not say they were special. I said they were blessed. I also did not say those others were not special or that they were not blessed.
What does that mean? Are you saying that Hindus, Buddhists, Muslims and a lot of other religions that have likewise "endured" are not "blessed"?
[quoteRestating the same argument would be redundant.[/QUOTE]What was your statement of your argument the first time? I didn't see it.
 

Magus

Active Member
Hebrew and Phoenician were two separate languages belonging to two separate cultures.

Greeks and Greeks were two separate languages belonging to two separate cultures?

'Phoenicia is the name given to the Levant , it is mentioned in Herodotus , Homer and Hesiod..

Hebrew is not a place, there is no location called 'Hebrew , if they
was , it be called עִבְרִוֹן 'proper locative noun , but that place does not exist.

The first child of Adam was called קַיִן ( Kenite ) , due to dialects
that changed to Phoenix in the Mediterranean world ,

Luke 3:36
Which was the son of Cainan (Καιναν) , which was the son of Arphaxad, which was the son of Sem, which was the son of Noe, which was the son of Lamech,

Gen 5:9
And Enos lived ninety years, and begat Cainan (Καιναν)

Does that mean we all descend from Cainan, or is your Bible book corrupt?
 
Last edited:

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
Why should I spend time convincing someone who opens with a rhetorical "No"?

I spend the bulk of my time witnessing to people who are open. What is your agenda, may I ask? To pick a fight?
I was annoyed when I made the thread. It was upon the request of another poster who was too lazy to search the fora for identical debates as it has been done to death. I wasn't hellbent on debating it for the 74689643rd time.
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
No, but try to convince me he did anyway.

What are Messianic prophecies?

Today's Judaism concepts are different from those of Jesus' day, as a result of AD 70 siege. Today's Judaism was revived after AD 250 by a group of unknown rabbis. While ancient Judaism are driven by mainly Pharisees back in Jesus time. The basis of the mainstream Pharisaic concepts include eternal hell, immortal soul and etc. Those concepts however are blurred away in today's Judaism. So if today's Judaism is no longer the old one, today's Messianic concept may also different from the official (Pharisaic) ones in Jesus time.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
I was annoyed when I made the thread. It was upon the request of another poster who was too lazy to search the fora for identical debates as it has been done to death. I wasn't hellbent on debating it for the 74689643rd time.

That particular poster already has posted several verses of Messianic scripture for your (and everyone elses') review. Feel free to criticize or just politely defer with, "I don't want to talk about this anymore." That's fine, you may exit the thread if you wish.

But your attitude is generally not tolerated by others as well. I guess you learn something new every day even if you don't want to.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
What are Messianic prophecies?

Today's Judaism concepts are different from those of Jesus' day, as a result of AD 70 siege. Today's Judaism was revived after AD 250 by a group of unknown rabbis. While ancient Judaism are driven by mainly Pharisees back in Jesus time. The basis of the mainstream Pharisaic concepts include eternal hell, immortal soul and etc. Those concepts however are blurred away in today's Judaism. So if today's Judaism is no longer the old one, today's Messianic concept may also different from the official (Pharisaic) ones in Jesus time.

Wow, thank you so much for that. I have been trying to get someone to tell me why they changed their point of view for quite some time now. That makes good sense and is very believable.

Anybody wish to challenge Hawkins' explanation?
 

rosends

Well-Known Member
What are Messianic prophecies?

Today's Judaism concepts are different from those of Jesus' day, as a result of AD 70 siege. Today's Judaism was revived after AD 250 by a group of unknown rabbis. While ancient Judaism are driven by mainly Pharisees back in Jesus time. The basis of the mainstream Pharisaic concepts include eternal hell, immortal soul and etc. Those concepts however are blurred away in today's Judaism. So if today's Judaism is no longer the old one, today's Messianic concept may also different from the official (Pharisaic) ones in Jesus time.
Is your knowledge of Pharisaic beliefs informed by anything outside of the gospels? Because the talmud, which records Pharisaic belief from before, during and after the advent of the common era is what informs modern Judaism. And your knowledge of modern Judaism and what it has "blurred away" -- where exactly do you get this information? Please excuse me if there is a delay in my response. Yom Kippur will start soon and I have to pray for my immortal soul so it avoids eternal hell.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Greeks and Greeks were two separate languages belonging to two separate cultures?

'Phoenicia is the name given to the Levant , it is mentioned in Herodotus , Homer and Hesiod..
Phoenicia was a kingdom to the north of Israel and Judah. They constituted a separate ethnic group with different language, writing, religion, economy, commerce, traditions, etc.

Hebrew is not a place, there is no location called 'Hebrew , if they
was , it be called עִבְרִוֹן 'proper locative noun , but that place does not exist.
Great, I never said that Hebrew was a place, I said it was a language belonging to a culture in a place. It looks like you get as creative with reading English as you do reading Hebrew and Greek.

The first child of Adam was called קַיִן ( Kenite ) , due to dialects
The first child of Adam was Cain, dude.
that changed to Phoenix in the Mediterranean world ,
How do you possibly get "Phoenix" from "Cain"?

Does that mean we all descend from Cainan, or is your Bible book corrupt?
I don't know what your point is. Canaan was only the son of Ham. Noah had 3 sons: Ham, Japheth and Shem.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
As someone who believes in Raelism, Micah 5:25 and Zechariah 9:9-10 are evidence that Jesus was the Messiah even if there were more prophets after. What matters though is that his miracles show the power of Aliens so that we can know of their existence now so that we can focus our lives on living better so They will want to help us.
 

robocop (actually)

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Yes DNA exists, you won't find that in the Bible for it was not discovered yet , Well God could at least slipped in the existence of Bacteria in the Bible, could of prevented thousands of deaths due to unsanitary circumcision knives.

Do you measure? the Hebrew word for that is מְשׂוּרָה 'Mesuwrah , coincidence?

www.blueletterbible.org/lang/lexicon/lexicon.cfm?strongs=H4884
Whatever, the Elohim created man in his own image and then the Sons of Elohim took daughters of the children of men. How could they do that if they both weren't created out of DNA?
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
In my opinion:
Was Yeshua really meant to do everything the first time? The only word 'Messiah' specific prophetic texts in the Bible both say 'he'd be cut off' (Daniel 9:26 & Isaiah 52:14 -> Isaiah 53).
First time caused the Destruction of the 2nd temple, Diaspora, and the Curse of Moses (Leviticus 26, Deuteronomy 28) because of ignoring the time of visitation (Luke 19:41-44).
Messianic prophecies states a cleansing of the earth first (Isaiah 24, Isaiah 34); the whole world is to be washed with fire before the return, in my understanding of Biblical texts. :innocent:

Messiah would be ' cut off ' in death which Jesus was until his God resurrected Jesus out of the grave.
'fire' in Scripture ( Bible speak ) is Not always literal fire, but fire used as an expression of cleansing.
Earth will Not be washed with literal fire but the wicked will be destroyed by the executional words coming forth out of Jesus' mouth as found at Isaiah 11:3-4 and Revelation 19:14-16. Destroyed forever - Psalms 92:7.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Yes DNA exists, you won't find that in the Bible for it was not discovered yet , Well God could at least slipped in the existence of Bacteria in the Bible, could of prevented thousands of deaths due to unsanitary circumcision knives.

Bacteria isn't mentioned but I find 'washing' is as found at Exodus 30:18-21; Leviticus 15:11; 16:24; Numbers 19:19.
If the knives were unsanitary it was because of Not following the Constitution of the Mosaic Law of being clean.
Also, during the 40 years of living in the wilderness circumcision was Not performed as found at Joshua 5:2-9.
So, they were protected from any unsanitary conditions that may have existed at that time frame.
 

Magus

Active Member
What are Messianic prophecies?


Great, I never said that Hebrew was a place, I said it was a language belonging to a culture in a place. It looks like you get as creative with reading English as you do reading Hebrew and Greek.

The first child of Adam was Cain, dude.
How do you possibly get "Phoenix" from "Cain"?


I don't know what your point is. Canaan was only the son of Ham. Noah had 3 sons: Ham, Japheth and Shem.

There is Χανααν ( Canaan) and Καιναν (Cainan ), no one seems to wonder why they are spelt differently.

Luke 3:36 ' Cainan the son of Arphaxad '
Gen 4:9 ' Καιν ( Cain)
Gen 5:9 'Καιναν ( Cainan ) , son of Enosh
Gen 10:6 ' Χανααν ( Xanaan) son of Ham
Gen 10:42 'Καιναν ( Kainan) son of Arphaxad (Septuagint)
Judges 4:11 Heber the Kenite (Καινα )

Χανααν ( Canaan) = Merchants
'Καιναν ( Cainan ) = Phoenicians

That is the important difference.

כְּנַעַן Kĕna`an merchant, traffick, traffickers

That's the Book of Joshua, they were not expelling 'Cainan but 'Xanaan.

That is why Jesus expelled the 'merchants ' (money changers)
Matthew 21:12

I pay attention to the language.

Hippos Equus
Pente Quinque
qoph_koppa_phi.jpg
 
Last edited:
Top