• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

How are these Great Beings explained?

RoaringSilence

RoaringSilence

Active Member
adrian009 said:
So the diety is Vishnu who is the supreme being?

When does He Manifest Himself again?
Click to expand...
Brahma is the creator / recycler
vishnu is the preserver
Shiva is destroyer

Vishnu always takes avatar when its time change the Yuga , 4 yuga's - sat yug , dwapar , treta and the end times is kal-yug. next avatar is Kalki avatar.

 
loverofhumanity

loverofhumanity

We are all the leaves of one tree
Premium Member
Vinayaka said:
There are other alternatives besides binge drinking, you know. I spent the last 3 hours of my life touching up the temple's wooden fence. Fresh air, exercise, contemplative solitude. I never even think of those adharmic things. But if that's what you're interested in ... lol.

Other alternatives ... adultery, playing with guns, arson of old buildings, hurling insults at random people .... yup, lots of alternatives to binge drinking.
Click to expand...

I haven’t had an alcoholic drink since i became a Baha’i which is about 41years now. Never missed it. Much happier and contented without all this poisonous stuff.

Actually I believe that because there’s a spiritual vacuum in peoples lives they try and fill it with all sorts of unfulfilling nonsense which only makes their lives worse. I think we are spiritual beings and can only be truly happy when we live a life of virtue and service.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
RoaringSilence said:
Brahma is the creator / recycler
vishnu is the preserver
Shiva is destroyer

Vishnu always takes avatar when its time change the Yuga , 4 yuga's - sat yug , dwapar , treta and the end times is kal-yug. next avatar is Kalki avatar.

Click to expand...

Do you think the following verses in the Gita are relevant to what we are talking about?


Whenever righteousness wanes and unrighteousness increases I send myself forth.
For the protection of the good and for the destruction of evil,
and for the establishment of righteousness,
I come into being age after age.
— Bhagavad Gita 4.7–8


What else do we know about the time and conditions of the appearance of the Kalki Avatar?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Anyway. You just generalized and took your very important point outside this last post: god.

My question: how do you exclude yourself from god that does not exist?

How do you choose to not go to a party that no one is having? Unless one is imaging there is a party and decides not to go to a party that he things exists, taking religion out of it, what is the logic behind that statement?

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
The comment offered that if you live the virtues you are not excluded, you live the required life, belief or no belief.

If you do not live the virtues you do not live the life belief or no belief.

This is what I do not ned to debate. Goodness is always prefered over what is not.

Sorry, just do not have the time....maybe next week.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...

I do not want to debate. I just see this repeated theme in you: you feel your beliefs are compromised, you feel Im telling you to find division which you relate to as differences, you feel Im asking you to debate....

That's thinking by definition playing the victim. (This is by definition not a criticism) Not you-but your thinking-that train of thought. So, I ask about your logic and you get defensive or ignore it. Even short posts.. .especially short posts....that annoys me more than the larger ones.
 
Last edited:
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Carlita said:
I would say it's one common result of each person's individual and different religions. For example, if I met you in person, I would not consider you a Buddhist based on the our religions. That would mean I can go to Bahaullah to end rebirth and you don't need god to have peace with your peers. The unity isn't in our beliefs. We have totally different belief systems.
Click to expand...

That is true, and doesn't prevent unity with those very different to us, as we have both experienced.

Carlita said:
It's how we communicate with people because of our individual beliefs. Most religions understand that. A Christian knows he can get along with Bahai without saying the Bahai is a christian. In earlier conversations in this thread, Bahai doesn't see it that way. One Bahai considered himself a practitioner of two religions because they both share the same love.
Click to expand...

It is all about communication as you say. I am a Baha'i but don't see any conflict between being a Baha'i and my former Christian beliefs. I call myself a Baha'i. Sometimes a patient who is a Christian fundamentalist may ask me what faith I am. Occasionally I will answer that I believe in the same God, Jesus, and Bible as they do and leave it at that as I don't think they are ready to hear that their doctor is a Baha'i.

Carlita said:
It's a mix up between the results of unity and the source of unity. Kind of like saying there is only one cook because we all like the different dishes from different countries brought to our table. (If you're following the analogy I had with Tony)
Click to expand...

The food analogy is interesting but I haven't followed it closely. Of course despite the different foods on offer we all have very similar nutritional requirements despite our diversity, ie proteins, carbohydrates, fats, minerals and vitamins. Some foods are part of every faith eg virtue and morals. That is our common humanity and faith.
 
Last edited:
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Vinayaka said:
Outsiders can misinterpret all they want to, but it is still a misinterpretation. That is the huge failing of Baha'i' ... with audacity to inform other adherenets of other faiths what they believe, rather than just accepting what they believe, or at least their right to it.
Click to expand...

I've just been told that Kriskna was a man who literally advised Arjuna during a war that really happened. Krishna was a manifestation of a diety, a soul released into a bodily form or avatar. The next avatar is Kalki.
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
adrian009 said:
The food analogy is interesting but I haven't followed it closely. Of course despite the different foods on offer we all have very similar nutritional requirements despite our diversity, ie proteins, carbohydrates, fats, minerals and vitamins. Some foods are part of every faith eg virtue and morals. That is our common humanity and faith.
Click to expand...

Haha. You spin the food analogy a bit catching me off guard. I was telling Tony that we have different foods set on the table. I takes the spices of your god, the decor of flavor from Brahman, and while everyone shares the bland and no distinct taste of my dish without a name. We hand our dishes for each person to taste.

Most religions would say the food was delicious from other countries. Some may value the things we have in common-what we like, why it's delicious, and our similar experiences. That, or we sit in silence not needing to say anything to enjoy each other's company. That is unity.

In this case, we didn't need to know that there are five different cooks in the back from five different countries, cultures, and ingredients that differ in each person's dish. With unity, the source does not matter because if I said the dish from my cook is better than your cook then that's not unity.

If you said that all the cooks cook the same meal, that's completely false.

It's best to enjoy each other's company, most of us know we rather stick to the foods of our own countries...

When I went to the temple before taking the refuges, we had all Vietnamese food. Nothing American. I saw something that looked like rice but it was green and sticky! It was good but not my taste. Yes, they have similar ingredients but if I told the cook they made food just like American foods because we all live on the same planet with the same vegies and animals, they would get offended. Some foods are not grown here in America and vis versa from other countries.

We got along.
We were respectful.
There was a connection without descrimination.
Everyone seem to enjoy the meal.

No one I would guess would say "This is a German dish, a Vietnamese dish, and a American dish all because they have the same amount of protein". In many countries, that does not define the dish.

That's why the meals are different. But the experiences may be the similar depending on how many people are willing to share their experiences regardless the religion.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Carlita said:
Haha. You spin the food analogy a bit catching me off guard. I was telling Tony that we have different foods set on the table. I takes the spices of your god, the decor of flavor from Brahman, and while everyone shares the bland and no distinct taste of my dish without a name. We hand our dishes for each person to taste.

Most religions would say the food was delicious from other countries. Some may value the things we have in common-what we like, why it's delicious, and our similar experiences. That, or we sit in silence not needing to say anything to enjoy each other's company. That is unity.

In this case, we didn't need to know that there are five different cooks in the back from five different countries, cultures, and ingredients that differ in each person's dish. With unity, the source does not matter because if I said the dish from my cook is better than your cook then that's not unity.

If you said that all the cooks cook the same meal, that's completely false.

It's best to enjoy each other's company, most of us know we rather stick to the foods of our own countries...

When I went to the temple before taking the refuges, we had all Vietnamese food. Nothing American. I saw something that looked like rice but it was green and sticky! It was good but not my taste. Yes, they have similar ingredients but if I told the cook they made food just like American foods because we all live on the same planet with the same vegies and animals, they would get offended. Some foods are not grown here in America and vis versa from other countries.

We got along.
We were respectful.
There was a connection without descrimination.
Everyone seem to enjoy the meal.

No one I would guess would say "This is a German dish, a Vietnamese dish, and a American dish all because they have the same amount of protein". In many countries, that does not define the dish.

That's why the meals are different. But the experiences may be the similar depending on how many people are willing to share their experiences regardless the religion.
Click to expand...

I think in life as we go about our day to day business mixing and mingling with different folk throughout the world and of different faiths, we take just get on with it, and enjoy the day. We often don't think too long and hard about it all.

On RF we are exploring a little more deeply. We are interested in who these cooks are and the nutritional content of what we are eating. We look more closely at customs and traditions. But we can still have unity.

Perhaps like the different cooks with their different foods, but all part of the one restaurant with everyone eating together we are not so different after all?
 
siti

siti

Well-Known Member
@adrian009 and @Carlita

I think a more pertinent application of the food analogy would be to think of the various religions as different cuisines - say French, Italian, Mexican and Chinese...

So, as a creative chef I take some culinary ideas from each and mold them into a new, hybrid way of cooking and flavouring the food.

So far, so good. But what do I now have - I can call it "fusion" and nobody minds at all. But if I now say "but of course my cuisine is the truly genuine one and the rest are only partly authentic" I will definitely earn the ire of the chefs of the cultures I borrowed from - especially the French ones!

And yet - I have to believe that my food actually tastes better - otherwise I would just revert to the traditional French, Italian...etc. Most people of course prefer to do that anyway - as Jesus (reportedly) noted: "no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say 'the old is better'". (Luke 5:39)
 
Last edited:
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
siti said:
@adrian009 and @Carlita

I think a more pertinent application of the food analogy would be to think of the various religions as different cuisines - say French, Italian, Mexican and Chinese...

So, as a creative chef I take some culinary ideas from each and mold them into a new, hybrid way of cooking and flavouring the food.

So far, so good. But what do I now have - I can call it "fusion" and nobody minds at all. But if I now say "but of course my cuisine is the truly genuine one and the rest are only partly authentic" I will definitely earn the ire of the chefs of the cultures I borrowed from - especially the French ones!

And yet - I have to believe that my food actually tastes better - otherwise I would just revert to the traditional French, Italian...etc. Most people of course prefer to do that anyway - as Jesus (reportedly) noted: "no one after drinking old wine wants the new, for they say 'the old is better'". (Luke 5:39)
Click to expand...

Hi @siti , nice to see you back again. I haven't seen you on RF in a little while.

Both the food and wine analogies are really good.

Food is something we all need and nourishes us physically and keeps us healthy (depending on what we eat and quantities). The different religions through their teachings provide spiritual nourishment. Each religion has provided spiritual sustenance for people over time. John used this analogy with the mana from heaven (John 6:31-32) based on the Hebrew Bible.

Wine can be that which intoxicates or exhilirates us and brings us to another level of consciousness. Another analogy is not being able to pour new wine into old wineskins (as they burst). Mark 2:22

The revelation from God Jesus brought could not be held within the frame work of Mosaic law.
 
Dawnofhope

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
leibowde84 said:
Muhammad did it with force.
Jesus didn't do it ... Paul and Constantine did it in his name, and we really don't know much about Jesus. We merely have claims made by unknown authors that may or may not be true.
We still have no verifiable evidence that Moses ever existed, so, to the best of our knowledge, he could have been a fictional character.
Buddha and Krishna seem to fit your mold though. They were extraordinary people in the sense you describe.

But, there were others. Churchill is one of my favorites. If it wasn't for him, Hitler would have had his way and the free world would not exist ... neither would Western civilization as we know it.

JFK was one too. He actually tried to unite the country.

MLK was certainly one.

The list goes on.
Click to expand...

Winston Churchill, the saviour of civilisation as we know it. Thats creative.

What is an agnostic Christain?
 
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
It is in the thread. Unfortunately, when I ask you to clarify a statement you made, you ignore it. So, I don't know why you say statements and don't want me to ask you to clarify it. At least not with me :( I honestly don't think Bahaullah would do that. That, and I don't think he'd keep saying "stay well and happy always" over and over again as if that solves a problem that does not exist. That is a illusion of negativity that you keep bringing into this conversation.

Again.

That is not my intent.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:
Carlita, No to that observation. Stay well and happy always. I am away for a while.

Regards Tony
Click to expand...

I asked posts ago to clarify: why do you think I am asking you to compromise your faith?
(I would look it up but you don't really like to clarify things with me)

I also ask how do you (edit) exclude yourself from a party that no one is having?
(Don't think about religion, god, and atheists. If you want me to understand, let me ask you to clarify)

Why are you being sarcastic all of the sudden?

I hate ignoring people (I will be honest) but if I were Bahai, I would not feel sarcasm and ignoring questions and ignoring in general brings any greater peace. If I am not the source of greater peace and help bring it, why would I accept to be a prophet to others who I'd wish to follow my example?

That, and The Buddha really likes us to be clear in mind from distress. Leads to liberation. He did say not to converse with evil persons but I don't think you're evil just giving me a hard time.

Your working isn't an excuse for inhospitality. You don't have to reply everyday. Just discuss.

That's the beauty of forums. Take advantage of it.
 
Last edited:
U

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
adrian009 said:
Perhaps like the different cooks with their different foods, but all part of the one restaurant with everyone eating together we are not so different after all?
Click to expand...

I don't consider being one restaurant as a definition of unity and being the source of it. One restaurant is just the place we are eating nothing more. I was at a Korean luncheon yesterday, at sat alone because I knew no Korean and was around people three times my age so I couldn't relate. Same place. Still isolated.

What we have in common is our intent and interest to try each other's food and be content and respectful to each other's meal and it's differing origin.

What is different and highly valuable to most countries is that the food they share is their food. They don't mind sharing if the people they share with understand that the ingredients and instruction of dish is theirs.

If I compared it to language, if I made up a sign in sign language to reflect my own interest because I can speak some sign too, that's disrespectful. Yes, we are signing around the same table and enjoying our conversation. The deeper issue is disrespecting the culture and nature to which American Sign Language comes from and who can make up signs and who cannot.

So the unity is not in our differing history; origins. We have various sources coming together talking in one conversation. It's the interest in talking in that one conversation and not mistaking a Deaf person's hospitality as a means he is accepting you in his culture and language.

Unity in results not by source.
 
Last edited:
Vinayaka

Vinayaka

devotee
Premium Member
loverofhumanity said:
I haven’t had an alcoholic drink since i became a Baha’i which is about 41years now. Never missed it. Much happier and contented without all this poisonous stuff.

Actually I believe that because there’s a spiritual vacuum in peoples lives they try and fill it with all sorts of unfulfilling nonsense which only makes their lives worse. I think we are spiritual beings and can only be truly happy when we live a life of virtue and service.
Click to expand...
I average about 2 beers a year. Social situations, just to be friendly.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
adrian009 said:
Winston Churchill, the saviour of civilisation as we know it. Thats creative.

What is an agnostic Christain?
Click to expand...
If it wasn't for Churchill, England would have most likely given into the Nazis. That would have been the end of Western Civilization. Instead we would all be living in a 3rd Reich world.
 
leibowde84

leibowde84

Veteran Member
adrian009 said:
Winston Churchill, the saviour of civilisation as we know it. Thats creative.

What is an agnostic Christain?
Click to expand...
An "agnostic Christian" is a person who has received Christian baptism and is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings, but also believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena. Basically, the belief is there with the understanding that it is based on faith not knowledge. This doesn't apply to me anymore though.

ag·nos·tic
aɡˈnästik/
noun
  1. a person who believes that nothing is known or can be known of the existence or nature of God or of anything beyond material phenomena
Chris·tian
ˈkrisCHən/
noun
  1. a person who has received Christian baptism or is a believer in Jesus Christ and his teachings.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top