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Why do you dislike Islam?

Notanumber

A Free Man
I don't understand your question.

Is questioning Islam not the same as “spreading mischief in the land”?

Verse 5:33 provides the basis for blasphemy laws, in which people are executed for insulting or questioning Islam. Ironically then, the very part of the Quran that apologists use to portray Islam as a non-violent religion has long been used as justification for making verbal offense into a capital crime.

Verse 5:32: All Life is Sacred?
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
Some of those in the Roman and the Persian Empire. Look at most Golden Age figures, they were from Persia, Khorusan, North Africa, etc. places with scholarly traditions dating back centuries: sciences, philosophy. engineering, etc.

Think of it as being like when the Romans conquered the Greeks, they still had the Greek philosophical & scientific traditions, just different overlords.

What they did was the entire history of Roman/Greek and Persian science. Science is cumulative, you learn from those who came before and improve on their ideas. Just as later scientists learned from and improved on the ideas from science tat developed in the Islamic Empires after their power and wealth declined.

Wasn't Alzahrawi (Abulcasis) Arabian, also I didn't say that Arabs are the founder
of all sciences, but the point is that a huge improvement of science achieved
during their time, to clear the point, the west improved the sciences next to
the decline of the Islamic empire, so no one can deny such a fact and no one can deny what the Arab had achieved as well.
 

Looncall

Well-Known Member
1) pushing homosexuals off towers was ISIS not Islam nor is it mandated in Islam.
2) Burning people alive is ISIS or extremists not Islam nor is it a mandated punishment in Islam
3) honor killings is not a part of Islam in actuality honor killings go as far back as the Roman times. Indians (Hindus) perform the same thing.
4) Throwing acid in peoples faces is not Islam nor is it mandated.
5) Cutting the hands off thieves is Shari'ah Law but one can be forgiven if one states that in the court. Depends on the court of law.
6) Stoning of adulterers depends on the court of law but ask a Muslim knowledgeable of shari'ah Law.
7) Misogyny really? What is misogynistic about Islam that is no different than Judaism and Christianity?
8) Terrorism is not a part of Islam in fact:

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

Your reasons are media based, not based on logic nor intellect.

So, why do those who carry out these atrocities claim to be good muslims, mostly very enthusiastically?

The proof is in the pudding. Where one finds a muslim society, one also finds atrocities such as these.
 

12jtartar

Active Member
Premium Member
Lately I've been annoyed by some of the threads popping up using links regarding the behaviors of other Muslims from across the world or the behaviors of extremist Muslims who commit terrorism justifying their action using doctrine. So I'm curious and wanted to discuss/debate some of the personal issues some people have regarding Islam. I'm not talking about verses but what are your personal issues with Islam and why the continuing issues regarding Islam. As I've told one member, when I came back I started my disagreement with Islamic theology regarding pre-determinism. My disagreement was purely philosophical other than that I have no personal issues with Islam other than a few philosophical/theological concepts I just disagree with. So I wanted to create a thread and allow people to vent their frustrations out here and hopefully correct some errors. I also hope some RF Muslims join in and perhaps answer some issues whether theological or otherwise.

Epic Beard Man,
I do not, personally have anything against Muslim, Musslemen, but I feel sorry for them! Why? Because I believe what the Bible says, and it says that there is only one way to Salvation. Muslim, it seems do not believe in the Greek Scriptures, and also do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, Christ. It seems that, according to the Bible that to be saved from endless death. You must have faith in Jesus, Acts 4:10-12, John 20:29-31, 1John 2:22,23, 5:5-13.
The Hebrew Scriptures, which Muslim say they believe, speaks of only one true God, and, it seems, that God says that anyone who worships any God but Him, Jehovah, will become just like their god’s, Nonexistent, Jeremiah 10:10-16,25, Psalms 115:1-8.
I feel sorry for them, that, it seems,they do not really believe their own Scriptures. Their Bible says that all things will be proven by two or three witnesses, and there are many more than that even wrote the Christian Greek Scriptures. Why do they not believe what their own people wrote???
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Epic Beard Man,
I do not, personally have anything against Muslim, Musslemen, but I feel sorry for them! Why? Because I believe what the Bible says, and it says that there is only one way to Salvation. Muslim, it seems do not believe in the Greek Scriptures, and also do not believe that Jesus was the Messiah, Christ. It seems that, according to the Bible that to be saved from endless death. You must have faith in Jesus, Acts 4:10-12, John 20:29-31, 1John 2:22,23, 5:5-13.
The Hebrew Scriptures, which Muslim say they believe, speaks of only one true God, and, it seems, that God says that anyone who worships any God but Him, Jehovah, will become just like their god’s, Nonexistent, Jeremiah 10:10-16,25, Psalms 115:1-8.
I feel sorry for them, that, it seems,they do not really believe their own Scriptures. Their Bible says that all things will be proven by two or three witnesses, and there are many more than that even wrote the Christian Greek Scriptures. Why do they not believe what their own people wrote???


Actually you quite wrong on a few things here...

1) Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
2) Muslims believe in all the original scriptures such as the Torah and Gospels
3)Muslims believe in angels
4) Muslims also believe Jesus was/is the Messiah of the Jews and that he was never crucified but taken up to heaven and there was a man who looked like Jesus on the cross but it was not Jesus.
5) Muslims believe Jesus will return to kill the anti-Christ and bring Islam to the world.
6) In Islam Muslims believe in One God the God of the scriptures, but believe over the years the scriptures were manipulated and that the Qur'an is the reminder and last revelation from God.
7) In Islam Allah (God), is the only one who can save mankind and there are no intercessors who can intercede on behalf of an individual, only God can save you.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
Actually you quite wrong on a few things here...

1) Muslims believe in the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob
2) Muslims believe in all the original scriptures such as the Torah and Gospels
3)Muslims believe in angels
4) Muslims also believe Jesus was/is the Messiah of the Jews and that he was never crucified but taken up to heaven and there was a man who looked like Jesus on the cross but it was not Jesus.
5) Muslims believe Jesus will return to kill the anti-Christ and bring Islam to the world.
6) In Islam Muslims believe in One God the God of the scriptures, but believe over the years the scriptures were manipulated and that the Qur'an is the reminder and last revelation from God.
7) In Islam Allah (God), is the only one who can save mankind and there are no intercessors who can intercede on behalf of an individual, only God can save you.

As far as I know, unlike Muhammad, Jesus never killed anyone while he was alive so why do Muslims believe that he would want to come back and start killing if they follow “The Religion of Peace”.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
As far as I know, unlike Muhammad, Jesus never killed anyone while he was alive so why do Muslims believe that he would want to come back and start killing if they follow “The Religion of Peace”.

Because the anti-Christ who is evil will attempt to ruin mankind and Jesus will come back to defeat the Dajjal (anti-Christ) and bring Islam to mankind. A similar passage is noted in revelations if you read the Bible. You act like Jesus was some peace loving hippie:

""Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:34

In revelations Jesus will kill people what do you think "the battle of good and evil" means?
 

The Emperor of Mankind

Currently the galaxy's spookiest paraplegic
Is it barbarian to put the rapist in the jail,

That's not what 'might makes right' is. Might makes right is when a tyrant uses his superior military strength to force laws and his beliefs on others - and to crush dissidents.


and is it barbarian to issue harsh laws to prevent crimes from happening?

Laws like cutting the hands off of thieves? Yes. Harsh laws like this are barbaric. How does cutting a man's hand off for stealing food to sate his hunger address the immediate problem that he's still hungry?


1) pushing homosexuals off towers was ISIS not Islam nor is it mandated in Islam.
2) Burning people alive is ISIS or extremists not Islam nor is it a mandated punishment in Islam
3) honor killings is not a part of Islam in actuality honor killings go as far back as the Roman times. Indians (Hindus) perform the same thing.
4) Throwing acid in peoples faces is not Islam nor is it mandated.

Islam is more than just sola scriptura; it's over a thousand years of legal jurisprudence, religious opinions (fatwas), actions and attitudes. Islam has a trend of intolerance towards other belief systems which is cause for worry amongst those who follow other belief systems in a world where Islamic influence is spreading.


5) Cutting the hands off thieves is Shari'ah Law but one can be forgiven if one states that in the court. Depends on the court of law.

Will being forgiven get the thief their hand back? If not it's not much use.


6) Stoning of adulterers depends on the court of law but ask a Muslim knowledgeable of shari'ah Law.

Nevertheless it is part of Islam and is a legitimate reason to dislike the faith.


7) Misogyny really? What is misogynistic about Islam that is no different than Judaism and Christianity?

A woman's testimony is worth half of a man's; women inherit half of what men do; women face legal pressures to dress a certain way or they are subject to ****-shaming and apparently are deserving of rape, according to some; women are compared to precious gems (i.e. they're deemed objects) and men are not; Shariah courts tend to place an easier path to divorce for men than for women; women are not allowed to lead prayers; women get acid thrown in their faces for refusing mens' advances; women are segregated during worship; women are segregated during education.


8) Terrorism is not a part of Islam in fact:

"Because of that, We decreed upon the Children of Israel that whoever kills a soul unless for a soul or for corruption [done] in the land – it is as if he had slain mankind entirely. And whoever saves one – it is as if he had saved mankind entirely. And our messengers had certainly come to them with clear proofs. Then indeed many of them, [even] after that, throughout the land, were transgressors."

Speaking of things that aren't part of Islam, that verse is plagiarised wholesale from the Babylonian Talmud. Also, Islamic terrorism is most definitely a part of Islam.


Your reasons are media based, not based on logic nor intellect.

Hilarious. Of the two of us, I'm the one willing to make the connection between belief and the behaviours informed by it. You, on the other hand, are engaging in logical fallacies to try and maintain your position.


I can't believe @A Greased Scotsman liked such a stupid post. I just demolished it. SMH

Ha ha ha... you wish.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
That's not what 'might makes right' is. Might makes right is when a tyrant uses his superior military strength to force laws and his beliefs on others - and to crush dissidents.

Islam doesn't force the others to convert to Islam, not true

Laws like cutting the hands off of thieves? Yes. Harsh laws like this are barbaric. How does cutting a man's hand off for stealing food to sate his hunger address the immediate problem that he's still hungry?

Islam doesn't apply any kind of punishment for those who steal for the need of food, Islamic law is more merciful than the secular laws.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
Because the anti-Christ who is evil will attempt to ruin mankind and Jesus will come back to defeat the Dajjal (anti-Christ) and bring Islam to mankind. A similar passage is noted in revelations if you read the Bible. You act like Jesus was some peace loving hippie:

""Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword."

Matthew 10:34

In revelations Jesus will kill people what do you think "the battle of good and evil" means?

Did he ever use the sword?

Islam: The Politically Incorrect Truth
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
That's not what 'might makes right' is. Might makes right is when a tyrant uses his superior military strength to force laws and his beliefs on others - and to crush dissidents.




Laws like cutting the hands off of thieves? Yes. Harsh laws like this are barbaric. How does cutting a man's hand off for stealing food to sate his hunger address the immediate problem that he's still hungry?




Islam is more than just sola scriptura; it's over a thousand years of legal jurisprudence, religious opinions (fatwas), actions and attitudes. Islam has a trend of intolerance towards other belief systems which is cause for worry amongst those who follow other belief systems in a world where Islamic influence is spreading.




Will being forgiven get the thief their hand back? If not it's not much use.




Nevertheless it is part of Islam and is a legitimate reason to dislike the faith.




A woman's testimony is worth half of a man's; women inherit half of what men do; women face legal pressures to dress a certain way or they are subject to ****-shaming and apparently are deserving of rape, according to some; women are compared to precious gems (i.e. they're deemed objects) and men are not; Shariah courts tend to place an easier path to divorce for men than for women; women are not allowed to lead prayers; women get acid thrown in their faces for refusing mens' advances; women are segregated during worship; women are segregated during education.




Speaking of things that aren't part of Islam, that verse is plagiarised wholesale from the Babylonian Talmud. Also, Islamic terrorism is most definitely a part of Islam.




Hilarious. Of the two of us, I'm the one willing to make the connection between belief and the behaviours informed by it. You, on the other hand, are engaging in logical fallacies to try and maintain your position.




Ha ha ha... you wish.


You've postulated claims with no objective sources that is quite intellectually dishonest of you. Here is a question for you have you read the Shari'ah Law? If not, then how can you postulate anything regarding it?

You said the following:

"A woman's testimony is worth half of a man's; women inherit half of what men do; women face legal pressures to dress a certain way or they are subject to ****-shaming and apparently are deserving of rape, according to some; women are compared to precious gems (i.e. they're deemed objects) and men are not; Shariah courts tend to place an easier path to divorce for men than for women; women are not allowed to lead prayers; women get acid thrown in their faces for refusing mens' advances; women are segregated during worship; women are segregated during education."


1)A woman's testimony is worth half of a man's."

"This is a gross mis-representation. The woman testimony is equal to the man's testimony except in one case only, the financial transactions. This is according to 2:282;

"O you who believe, when you transact a loan for any period, you shall write it down. An impartial scribe shall do the writing. ........ Two men shall serve as witnesses; if not two men, then a man and two women whose testimony is acceptable to all. Thus, if one woman becomes biased, the other will remind her. It is the obligation of the witnesses to testify when called upon to do so. ......"

2) women inherit half of what men do

"This is a common misconception even among the traditional Muslims themselves. Quran gives the parents total freedom to give their children as much as they see fit even if this means giving the females double what the males would get. Quran, however, commands that if a will is NOT left, then the estate is distributed in such a manner that the son gets double what the daughter gets. Generally, the son is responsible for a family, while the daughter is taken care of by a husband or her family. However, the Quran recommends in 2:180 that a will shall be left to conform with the specific circumstances of the deceased. For example, if the son is rich and the daughter is poor, one may leave a will giving the daughter everything, or twice as much as the son."

3) women face legal pressures to dress a certain way or they are subject to ****-shaming and apparently are deserving of rape

"This is a very common misconception, as Quran does not command the veil (Hijab). Wearing the veil is a tradition and is only supported by the man-made books of Hadiths and Sunna. These books do not represent the words of God in the Quran and on many occasions contradict them. Please see: Women Dress code in Islam."

4) women are compared to precious gems (i.e. they're deemed objects) and men are not

This is the problem you're not coming with facts you need to state a verse or hadith that says that so I can cross check, otherwise your comment is pure BS and conjecture on your part.

5) Shariah courts tend to place an easier path to divorce for men than for women

"Islam places no restriction on women to teach, preach and guide both women and men. "Men and women are supporters of each other. They command what is right and forbid what is wrong... (Al-Tawbah 9:71)"

Woman Imam Leading Men and Women in Salat - IslamiCity

6) Shariah courts tend to place an easier path to divorce for men than for women

Do you even research some of this stuff you're writing? Islam is against divorce in the highest and usually there are mediators involved to help the couple to reconcile:

"The Quran went on to say in Bakra:231"and when you divorce women and they have [nearly] fulfilled their term, either retain them according to acceptable terms or release them according to acceptable terms, and do not keep them, intending harm, to transgress [against them]. And whoever does that has certainly wronged himself. And do not take the verses of Allah in jest. And remember the favor of Allah upon you and what has been revealed to you of the Book and wisdom by which He instructs you. And fear Allah and know that Allah is Knowing of all things".o Prophet, when you [Muslims] divorce women, divorce them for [the commencement of] their waiting period and keep count of the waiting period, and fear Allah , your Lord. Do not turn them out of their [husbands'] houses, nor should they [themselves] leave [during that period] unless they are committing a clear immorality. And those are the limits [set by] Allah ."

https://www.linkedin.com/pulse/20141011104055-314687442-the-rights-of-a-divorced-woman-in-islam

7) women get acid thrown in their faces for refusing mens' advances

These are isolated cases and are not a part of Islam in fact this would be in most cases considered a sin in Islam.

8) women are segregated during worship; women are segregated during education.

"This is not true. Qur'an encourages the pursuit of knowledge by all Muslims (Submitters) regardless of their sex. It repeatedly commands all believers to read, to recite, to think, to contemplate, as well as to learn from the signs of God surrounding us in nature. In fact, the very first revelation to Prophet Muhammad was "READ" and the second revelation talked about God who teaches the people by the "PEN". In either case no gender is advocated, the order is for everyone. Islam (Submission) does not put any limit on the kind or field of education a woman may choose. Islamic history still has the mark of few women scholars."

On women being segregated in places of worship:

"This is a common misconception even among some Muslims but has NO basis in the Quran. On the contrary, God meant for the women and men to be together with NO segregation whether in public, work or worship places. Hajj (pilgrimage) is a vivid example of how women and men are not segregated and worship in the same place, then go ahead with their lives and practice commerce after Hajj with no limits.."

Source:Misconceptions about women in Islam (Submission) | Submission.org - Your best source for Submission (Islam)

Lucky for you, it is not busy at work but I hate to spend this much time deconstructing your post which was implausible, not even research and just put together based on what you see in the news. It's one thing to dislike Islam for your own religious/cultural bias, it's another to throw out stuff without researching and getting all the facts!
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher

What do you think Jesus does in revelation?

" "And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war. His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself. And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God. And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean. And out of his mouth GOETH A SHARP SWORD, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God. And he hath on his vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS"(Rev. 19:11-16).

You act like in revelations upon Jesus' return he is not going to kill people. Jesus is going to be violent and rid the world of the anti-Christ and his allies by killing him (the anti-Christ) and his allies. Revelation is about doing a violent act regardless whether it is for good.

Funny you get your info from bigoted websites.
 

Notanumber

A Free Man
You act like in revelations upon Jesus' return he is not going to kill people. Jesus is going to be violent and rid the world of the anti-Christ and his allies by killing him (the anti-Christ) and his allies. Revelation is about doing a violent act regardless whether it is for good.

As an atheist, am I one of those he is going to kill so that Islam can rule the world?


Funny you get your info from bigoted websites.

Try replacing the word bigoted with the word truthful.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
So, why do those who carry out these atrocities claim to be good muslims, mostly very enthusiastically?

The proof is in the pudding. Where one finds a muslim society, one also finds atrocities such as these.

Extremists tend to see their worldview from a narrow viewpoint so of course they'll reason and use doctrine to justify their claims and yes they'll consider themselves "pious Muslims." You do realize there are diverse Muslim communities. Why haven't heard things from Lebanon, Michigan, Turkey, Malaysia, Uzbekistan etc? If we are going to infer things then we too can infer places where there is a high population of Caucasians, it will result in the formation of racism against people of color, cause I mean after all given the climate in Russia, England, even the United States all have their cases of the mistreatment of people of color. I thought Western society would be more civilized?
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
As an atheist, am I one of those he is going to kill so that Islam can rule the world?




Try replacing the word bigoted with the word truthful.

No it's not truthful I've supplied countless facts from various websites. What you're doing is being close minded. I accept the fact you know diddly squat about Islam outside what you see on television or biased websites. You have no objective scholarly reasoning. I've actually had to write papers on religious subjects so I can do this all day.
 

He spoke Arabic, whether or not he was ethnically Arabian is unknown. Was born in Spain.

I didn't say that Arabs are the founder
of all sciences, but the point is that a huge improvement of science achieved
during their time, to clear the point, the west improved the sciences next to
the decline of the Islamic empire, so no one can deny such a fact and no one can deny what the Arab had achieved as well.

Who is denying there was a good amount of scientific advancement? I was giving reasons why there was.

The contribution of Arabs depends on if you are talking about ethnic Arabs or linguistic Arabs. The contribution of 'proper' Arabs (from the peninsular) was probably quite limited as they only formed a small part of the population and lacked the intellectual traditions of other peoples. The contribution of Arabic speakers was significant though. So if you are talking about linguistic Arabs then they achieved a lot.
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
He spoke Arabic, whether or not he was ethnically Arabian is unknown. Was born in Spain.



Who is denying there was a good amount of scientific advancement? I was giving reasons why there was.

The contribution of Arabs depends on if you are talking about ethnic Arabs or linguistic Arabs. The contribution of 'proper' Arabs (from the peninsular) was probably quite limited as they only formed a small part of the population and lacked the intellectual traditions of other peoples. The contribution of Arabic speakers was significant though. So if you are talking about linguistic Arabs then they achieved a lot.

He's an Arab whether you like it or not.
Abu al-Qasim Khalaf ibn al-Abbas al Zahrawi, better known as Al-Zahrawi, was an illustrious medieval Arab Muslim physician and surgeon who lived and practiced during the golden era of Islamic Civilization
Who is Al-Zahrawi? Everything You Need to Know

What about Al-Kindi, Ibn Alhaithm, Ibn Alnafis? should I go further
 
He's an Arab whether you like it or not.
Abu al-Qasim Khalaf ibn al-Abbas al Zahrawi, better known as Al-Zahrawi, was an illustrious medieval Arab Muslim physician and surgeon who lived and practiced during the golden era of Islamic Civilization
Who is Al-Zahrawi? Everything You Need to Know

What about Al-Kindi, Ibn Alhaithm, Ibn Alnafis? should I go further

As long as you believe everyone who ever spoke Latin was an Italian...

People adopting the Arabic language and Arabic names didn't magically change their ethnicity too.

This shows genetics with an additional 1000 years of mixing. Iranians and Syrians are closer to Greeks than they are to Hijazi Arabs.

Screen_Shot_2017-07-14_at_21.00.22.png
 

FearGod

Freedom Of Mind
As long as you believe everyone who ever spoke Latin was an Italian...

People adopting the Arabic language and Arabic names didn't magically change their ethnicity too.

This shows genetics with an additional 1000 years of mixing. Iranians and Syrians are closer to Greeks than they are to Hijazi Arabs.

Screen_Shot_2017-07-14_at_21.00.22.png

You didn't read the article about Al zahrawi

Since Zahrawi was a descendant of the ‘Al-Ansar’ tribe that hailed from the Hejaz province of Arabia (now Saudi Arabia), he was attributed with the title ‘Al-Ansari’. He completed his schooling and higher education from Cordoba. He spent the better part of his life studying, instructing, practicing surgery and medicine in Cordoba.
Who is Al-Zahrawi? Everything You Need to Know
 
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