Was Jesus the Messaiah? Why or why not?

DavidFirth said:

His point is/was that Jesus is the only One who can back up His claims with scripture. I know it is scripture that you don't like or believe is scripture but it is scripture all the same.

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His claims were backed by nothing. He fulfilled none of the prophecies; that's why Christians had to invent the second coming myth.

Rival said:

Jesus was one of many messianic claimants. Also, there is not such a thing as salvation in Jewish theology; no saviour figure is needed in order for anyone to enter heaven. It is, and always has been, righteousness, whether Jew or nonJew. No one needs to be 'saved' from anything.

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He sure seems like a saviour, we certainly do greatly desire His coming... Maybe that's why He seems like a saviour. But it is true that He's not a saviour as Christians view him to be.

Elliott said:

He sure seems like a saviour, we certainly do greatly desire His coming... Maybe that's why He seems like a saviour. But it is true that He's not a saviour as Christians view him to be.

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?

Rival said:

?

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When you said what you said i was thinking "is He actually a saviour?", and i realized He's a great many things. Consider that He will be judging Mt. Seir for their crimes, He's not saving them.

Hawkins said:

Jesus is the only one claimed to be a Messiah and with a Holy Book literally leading to the salvation of the many (Christians). Other messiahs either don't exist or never save any one.

If Jesus is not the Messiah, then virtually no one in the past 2000 years is saved. If on the other hand, salvation doesn't matter then who cares about who the Messiah is?

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The concept of salvation that you're talking about is only found in the book that claims the messiah already came. So you're saying the only one who fulfilled the terms of the Christian book is the Christian messiah written about in selfsame book.

That's pretty shaky reasoning.

Elliott said:

He sure seems like a saviour, we certainly do greatly desire His coming... Maybe that's why He seems like a saviour. But it is true that He's not a saviour as Christians view him to be.

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I like that approach. I'd like to see that coming from more Jews. It is more ecumenical

PopeADope said:

What bothers you about what Jesus taught? I'd especially be interested in understanding the Jewish perspective.

I'm having doubts about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah, because it doesn't make sense to me that if he was the Messiah Israel was praying for and eagerly awaiting, why did the movement he started lead to such anti-Semitism and persecution of Jews?

I'd assume the Messiah would exalt Israel, not argue with Jewish authorities, be executed as a criminal, and found a Church that brought about some of the worst anti-Semitism.

So what bothers you about Yeshua of Nazareth? Please explain why or why not he is the Messaiah. Thanks.

I'm praying that God will give Israel the Messiah they are expecting. It seems the time is ripe. He sounds like an amazing person. I hope and pray God isn't going to let his chosen people wait in vain.

Although I find Jesus quite blameless, He didn't fulfill enough prophecy in my opinion. He defied the law. The movement he started did away with much of the law. He also said he could forgive sins and that he and the Father are one, and those who see him see the Father, making himself equal to God. Is the Messiah supposed to make such claims about himself?

Please, if you feel inclined, join me in prayer that God gives his people the Messiah and Temple they are hoping for. Easy is this for God to do.

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Nothing at all bothers.

I don't see the "law" as literal nor do I see the "temple" as literal in its common human exegesis.

What is quite humorous to me, is that both humans that practice/believe in a coming are all expecting an evil being to destroy and kill other humans, and yet use "righteousness" in correlation to that.

I've heard of self-proclaimed "Christians" mocking "Judaism" for expecting a "knight in shining armor." Yet its now self-proclaimed "Christians" who are expecting a "knight in shining armor." It's quite humorous.

In my perception, the coming would be more likely to occur within a human being, destroying the evil within the temple(mind and heart) and creating a new temple(mind and heart.) Makes the most damn righteous sense.

PopeADope said:

Please explain why or why not he is the Messaiah.

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He failed to fulfill the messianic prophecies, just like the dozens of failed claimants who came both before and after him. It's THAT simple.

If, the debate is still ongoing with this, Jesus was even real, he was just a man with ideas people respected. There was nothing especially divine about him.

Rival said:

His claims were backed by nothing. He fulfilled none of the prophecies; that's why Christians had to invent the second coming myth.

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PopeADope said:

What bothers you about what Jesus taught? I'd especially be interested in understanding the Jewish perspective.

I'm having doubts about Jesus being the Jewish Messiah, because it doesn't make sense to me that if he was the Messiah Israel was praying for and eagerly awaiting, why did the movement he started lead to such anti-Semitism and persecution of Jews?

I'd assume the Messiah would exalt Israel, not argue with Jewish authorities, be executed as a criminal, and found a Church that brought about some of the worst anti-Semitism.

So what bothers you about Yeshua of Nazareth? Please explain why or why not he is the Messaiah. Thanks.

I'm praying that God will give Israel the Messiah they are expecting. It seems the time is ripe. He sounds like an amazing person. I hope and pray God isn't going to let his chosen people wait in vain.

Although I find Jesus quite blameless, He didn't fulfill enough prophecy in my opinion. He defied the law. The movement he started did away with much of the law. He also said he could forgive sins and that he and the Father are one, and those who see him see the Father, making himself equal to God. Is the Messiah supposed to make such claims about himself?

Please, if you feel inclined, join me in prayer that God gives his people the Messiah and Temple they are hoping for. Easy is this for God to do.

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A big problem is no one does any research. I am a scholar and therefore I make a habit of doing research. The reason I mention this is because based on scholarly research there is good reason to question the accuracy of the gospels. I believe Jesus was the Messiah. As God, Jesus gave testimony to his chosen people, but after his murder the true story was rewritten, and rewritten so many times that the real story was lost. I have posted about this several times, but everyone ignores my postings, they want to believe "fairyland gospel stories." The facts are Jesus was God, God is a duality, there is no son of God, Christianity is based on false ideas, and Jews ignored Jesus, mostly because He was too blunt, he didn't play religious game. He kept talking about His heavenly kingdom, everyone wanted earthly treasures. Read those prior gospels about Jesus sayings, those gospels reveal the truth about Jesus. Oh, yes, no one does any research!

The Old Testament makes prophecies about the Messiah, it happened but stories were distorted until we have what religious leaders wanted from a new religion. It can't get any better, the son of God is crucified for humankind, and whoever believes it is saved. Wow, such an easy path to salvation. Religious leaders, many religions, Vatican City and other Christian centers have reaped enormous benefits from those many lies. If the gospel authors were alive today they would probable be successful screen play writers, they were great writers of fiction. No one does any research!

I believe Jesus was the most special prophet because he said things that would be understood only many years later so that people could discover the truth in all of these things, particularly in Revelations. I know John the Revelator was not Jesus but he was his apostle.

We can all be safe. Inner peace ->gnosis -> safety.

Tumah said:

The concept of salvation that you're talking about is only found in the book that claims the messiah already came. So you're saying the only one who fulfilled the terms of the Christian book is the Christian messiah written about in selfsame book.

That's pretty shaky reasoning.

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You miss the point. The point who created the salvation concept is not important. The importance is if the assumed salvation is not true, then nothing matters. You don't need a religion in this case. However if salvation is true, it means that you have an after life to be redeemed, then it concerns everyone.

To put it another way, a religion only concerns us if after life exists and requires a salvation from a bad sequence such as en eternal hell. If so, then we need to examine our reality in the past 2000 years that who are saved? The only claimed Messiah who could possibly saved many is Jesus! Buddha and Mohammad never claimed to be the Messiah. No claimed Messiah ever saved anyone with any salvation theory he threw out but Jesus. That's the point.

Hawkins said:

You miss the point. The point who created the salvation concept is not important. The importance is if the assumed salvation is not true, then nothing matters. You don't need a religion in this case. However if salvation is true, it means that you have an after life to be redeemed, then it concerns everyone.

To put it another way, a religion only concerns us if after life exists and requires a salvation from a bad sequence such as en eternal hell. If so, then we need to examine our reality in the past 2000 years that who are saved? The only claimed Messiah who could possibly saved many is Jesus! Buddha and Mohammad never claimed to be the Messiah. No claimed Messiah ever saved anyone with any salvation theory he threw out but Jesus. That's the point.

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Very good post!

Hawkins said:

You miss the point. The point who created the salvation concept is not important. The importance is if the assumed salvation is not true, then nothing matters. You don't need a religion in this case. However if salvation is true, it means that you have an after life to be redeemed, then it concerns everyone.

To put it another way, a religion only concerns us if after life exists and requires a salvation from a bad sequence such as en eternal hell. If so, then we need to examine our reality in the past 2000 years that who are saved? The only claimed Messiah who could possibly saved many is Jesus! Buddha and Mohammad never claimed to be the Messiah. No claimed Messiah ever saved anyone with any salvation theory he threw out but Jesus. That's the point.

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No, actually you missed Tumah's point.

RabbiO said:

No, actually you missed Tumah's point.

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For some inexplicable reason these threads always end this way.

Was Jesus the Messiah ?
Was Jesus smeared in Oil ?

The Gk definition of χριστός is ' to be rubbed on, used as ointment '

Genesis 31:13
I am the God of Bethel, where thou anointed the pillar

מָשַׁח
to smear, anoint, spread a liquid

What type of Oil ?

Was Jesus smeared in Olive oil ?

Anyone can smear themselves in Oil and literally be the Messiah.

No anointing with oil is a blessing through Christ. If you say, "Christ is the one who is anointed with oil," and someone is anointed with oil as a blessing, it is like they are treated like Christ or they believe in Christ who was where healing originated. Through Christ, they become blessed.

I wish I could make that more clear.

Chrism means Oil, Christ means Oiled.

Why does Jesus need be Oiled to be a God?