Question for unbelievers

Mister Silver · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
I’ve been a believer in the existence of God most of my life, way before I had any interest in religion. My choice of religion is a consequence of my faith, not the cause. I believe in God because it makes sense to me. That also gives me a sense of belonging and the fact that I have a hope in something bigger than myself provides me with an extraordinary emotional shelter.

Living in a world as horrible as this one, it helps me so much to believe that this is temporary, that a beautiful future will arrive and all the ugliness will disappear. Sometimes that hope is all that keeps me going from one day to the other without getting extremely depressed.

How do non-believers cope with the reality of the world? If you believe that this life is all there is and nothing else can be expected, how do you keep emotionally balanced? What is your source of strength and happiness?

For me personally, I learned that the harsh realistic truth is much better than the comfortable religious lie.

I believe for many theists, reliance upon religion or spiritual concepts for happiness is akin to drug addiction. It's just that the theist is addicted to religion and cannot imagine happiness without it.

Vee · Sep 10, 2017

shivsomashekhar said:
You seem to be admitting that you have created your concept of a non-religious God based on your dislike for the current state of the world. You created a God that - for some reason - cannot fix this ugly world now, but will do it at some point in future. If you think the world is ugly, then it has been ugly for thousands of years. Why has this God not fixed it yet and when will he get to it?

Another possibility. If your God is also the creator, then he created this ugliness, in which case, he may not see it as ugliness and may never fix it?

I didn't create anything. I believe, like may others do, that we're not here by change and someone created the universe and everything in it. Faith and religion are different things and you can have one without the other. I did for a long time.
It's not that God can't fix this world. He can and the bible says he will. His authority was challenged. Someone said that humans would be better off on their own. God decided to give us a chance to prove that point but it is temporary and he will intervene in due time.
If the bible is right, great, if not, looking at the way we are treating this planet, soon most forms of life will be gone and the earth will be ruined. Not a fantastic outcome.

ChristineM · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
I’ve been a believer in the existence of God most of my life, way before I had any interest in religion. My choice of religion is a consequence of my faith, not the cause. I believe in God because it makes sense to me. That also gives me a sense of belonging and the fact that I have a hope in something bigger than myself provides me with an extraordinary emotional shelter.

Living in a world as horrible as this one, it helps me so much to believe that this is temporary, that a beautiful future will arrive and all the ugliness will disappear. Sometimes that hope is all that keeps me going from one day to the other without getting extremely depressed.

How do non-believers cope with the reality of the world? If you believe that this life is all there is and nothing else can be expected, how do you keep emotionally balanced? What is your source of strength and happiness?

How do we keep balanced? Same away as you to some extent. That is get on with your life, provide for your loved ones, enjoy what you can. The only differences are, we don't live on the false hope that it gets better when you are dead and we don't have a god to thank so the only one left to thank is the person who actually deserves the thanks.

ChristineM · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
It's wonderful that you care and do your best but what if God cares about us? What if the bible is right and he simply gave humans a period of time to manage on their own so that we would see the result of that?

And what if pigs could fly, would the price of bacon soar?

Jumi · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
It is true that many battles have been won, but unfortunately we're headed to losing the war. If your life is good, I'm happy for you, but think about all the millions of people who can't say the same.
Humans are destroying this planet. 1% of the world population owns more resources than the other 99% combined. Weather changes are bringing more violent events like hurricanes and storms, just look at the news this week.
Violence, racism and intolerance are everywhere.
Even in developed countries like yours, how many people don't have enough money to make it to the end of the month? How many can't afford to pay their bills and are heavily indebted? Were heading to a market correction and even with all the manipulation and delaying of the inevitable, I can only see this ending in tragedy and more will be stolen from the poor to be given to the rich. I'm not making this up or being dramatic. If you do some research you'll find the data.
Do you really think the world is getting better?

It's true that things are bad, but they are still better than at any time in history.

ChristineM · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
It is true that many battles have been won, but unfortunately we're headed to losing the war. If your life is good, I'm happy for you, but think about all the millions of people who can't say the same.
Humans are destroying this planet. 1% of the world population owns more resources than the other 99% combined. Weather changes are bringing more violent events like hurricanes and storms, just look at the news this week.
Violence, racism and intolerance are everywhere.
Even in developed countries like yours, how many people don't have enough money to make it to the end of the month? How many can't afford to pay their bills and are heavily indebted? Were heading to a market correction and even with all the manipulation and delaying of the inevitable, I can only see this ending in tragedy and more will be stolen from the poor to be given to the rich. I'm not making this up or being dramatic. If you do some research you'll find the data.
Do you really think the world is getting better?

That is all very true and should be of concern to everyone but it omits some salient facts.

One of the biggest improvements has been in health. The world average lifespan is close on 80 years. Only 60 years ago it was 64 years. 100 years ago 47 years. And in only 150 years average lifespans have more than doubled.

Medical science has moved on with technology.

Technology itself makes our lives easier.

Transport is safer.

Genetic engineering of food crops means at least a billion less people have not died of starvation.

I don't known about you but i consider these little snippets to be improvement's.

corynski · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
I’ve been a believer in the existence of God most of my life, way before I had any interest in religion. My choice of religion is a consequence of my faith, not the cause. I believe in God because it makes sense to me. That also gives me a sense of belonging and the fact that I have a hope in something bigger than myself provides me with an extraordinary emotional shelter.

Living in a world as horrible as this one, it helps me so much to believe that this is temporary, that a beautiful future will arrive and all the ugliness will disappear. Sometimes that hope is all that keeps me going from one day to the other without getting extremely depressed.

How do non-believers cope with the reality of the world? If you believe that this life is all there is and nothing else can be expected, how do you keep emotionally balanced? What is your source of strength and happiness?

Yes, it is a different orientation. There was a point in my early years when I decided I wanted to know, rather than believe. I wanted a reality without any delusions. I wanted to know if there was a reality behind the delusions. I studied religion from an anthropological perspective, and began to understand that I had not been told the truth about what happened in the world before Christianity and the Christian God who created everything...... supposedly....... but humans had already created hundreds and hundreds of gods and goddesses, and for a purpose, a purpose that served hunting and gathering groups, not modern, scientific thinkers. In short, the study of reality is better than living in a constructed belief system such as any religion. And now, approaching 80 years of age, it is a shock to consider that I simply won't exist any more, that my mind will disappear together with my flesh and bones, that I will return to the elements from which I came. But it doesn't bother me because I know that is what is..... Or shall I say what I think is, because I'm not 100% sure of anything I think. Again, it seems that I feel that reality is more fulfilling than in believing the current religious mythology........

Wirey · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
I’ve been a believer in the existence of God most of my life, way before I had any interest in religion. My choice of religion is a consequence of my faith, not the cause. I believe in God because it makes sense to me. That also gives me a sense of belonging and the fact that I have a hope in something bigger than myself provides me with an extraordinary emotional shelter.

Living in a world as horrible as this one, it helps me so much to believe that this is temporary, that a beautiful future will arrive and all the ugliness will disappear. Sometimes that hope is all that keeps me going from one day to the other without getting extremely depressed.

How do non-believers cope with the reality of the world? If you believe that this life is all there is and nothing else can be expected, how do you keep emotionally balanced? What is your source of strength and happiness?

How do I cope with the reality of the world? By relying on reality, of course. This, what I have now, is all I get. I try to be very careful not to waste love I could share with others by sharing it an Invisible Pink Unicorn, or Hot Dog Elves, or Invisible Jewish Zombies. I can't imagine a sadder fate than to waste my life sucking up to a god who doesn't even have the decency to look me in the eye and say "It's all real and I care enough about you to let you know that".

How do you cope with reality? You know, Jesus floated up in the sky to Heaven, only now we know there is no Heaven up there. Is there a frozen partially crucified Jew somewhere in space, or is the physical ascension of Jesus (which is intended to show that he is actually the son of the big guy) just a fake story? How does reality like that affect you?

Polymath257 · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
It is true that many battles have been won, but unfortunately we're headed to losing the war. If your life is good, I'm happy for you, but think about all the millions of people who can't say the same.
Humans are destroying this planet. 1% of the world population owns more resources than the other 99% combined. Weather changes are bringing more violent events like hurricanes and storms, just look at the news this week.
Violence, racism and intolerance are everywhere.
Even in developed countries like yours, how many people don't have enough money to make it to the end of the month? How many can't afford to pay their bills and are heavily indebted? Were heading to a market correction and even with all the manipulation and delaying of the inevitable, I can only see this ending in tragedy and more will be stolen from the poor to be given to the rich. I'm not making this up or being dramatic. If you do some research you'll find the data.
Do you really think the world is getting better?

Yes, undoubtedly. Compare to how the world was 500 years ago. No question we are better off now. The overall level of health is much better. The opportunities, even for the disadvantaged, are much better. The amount we understand is far more. The number and type of diseases have decreased. In every way I can think of, we are better off. If you look at the number of 'heavily indebted' just 500 years ago, the numbers are staggering.

And that goes double for 1000 years ago.

I'd much rather live now than any other time in history.

LuisDantas · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
How do non-believers cope with the reality of the world?

By seeking a good life, in the various ways that we understand it to be, mainly.

Family, friends, activities that we value for whatever reason. That kind of thing.

If you believe that this life is all there is and nothing else can be expected,

Afterlives? Indeed, I do not believe nor even sympathise with the idea either. And I certainly do not fear it.

If anything, I have a deep distaste for the huge amount of damage that I have seen enabled by the idea. It was used as justification for harming me personally far too often for me to forgive.

how do you keep emotionally balanced? What is your source of strength and happiness?

Deep honesty with myself. I may not be representative, though. I was raised in a very hostile emotional environment.

The Holy Bottom Burp · Sep 10, 2017

Vee said:
I’ve been a believer in the existence of God most of my life, way before I had any interest in religion. My choice of religion is a consequence of my faith, not the cause. I believe in God because it makes sense to me. That also gives me a sense of belonging and the fact that I have a hope in something bigger than myself provides me with an extraordinary emotional shelter.

Living in a world as horrible as this one, it helps me so much to believe that this is temporary, that a beautiful future will arrive and all the ugliness will disappear. Sometimes that hope is all that keeps me going from one day to the other without getting extremely depressed.

How do non-believers cope with the reality of the world? If you believe that this life is all there is and nothing else can be expected, how do you keep emotionally balanced? What is your source of strength and happiness?

I don't have anything to add to the points already made by my unbelieving brothers and sisters - don't think I've ever given out so many "likes" on one thread! All I'd say is that people lose their beliefs in a deity or deities, but they don't go and blow their brains out as a result. I have personal experience of this as I used to be a theist myself; once you accept that the whole thing is a fiction you just readjust and re-calibrate. It didn't lead me down the path of hedonism or narcissism, but it did make me realise my own mortality. It focuses your attention on what really matters in life; getting the most out of every day and spending time with the people you love. It really helps you to see how futile a lot of our activity is, I would absolutely say my atheism has made me a happier and more balanced person.

For me personally it also helped me to strip away bigoted, racist and sexist preconceptions I carried. Ditch religion/god (the two things are the same regardless of what religious people will try to tell you) and realise that we are just a bunch of poorly evolved primates who don't know much about anything, it is a great leveller that tames the ego.

So my counter question to you is this; lets say something came up tomorrow to definitively prove the bible is a fiction, would you go and blow your brains out? Wouldn't you just do what I did and readjust your thinking, your life? Honest answer please.

corynski · Sep 10, 2017

The Holy Bottom Burp said:
I don't have anything to add to the points already made by my unbelieving brothers and sisters - don't think I've ever given out so many "likes" on one thread! All I'd say is that people lose their beliefs in a deity or deities, but they don't go and blow their brains out as a result. I have personal experience of this as I used to be a theist myself; once you accept that the whole thing is a fiction you just readjust and re-calibrate. It didn't lead me down the path of hedonism or narcissism, but it did make me realise my own mortality. It focuses your attention on what really matters in life; getting the most out of every day and spending time with the people you love. It really helps you to see how futile a lot of our activity is, I would absolutely say my atheism has made me a happier and more balanced person.

For me personally it also helped me to strip away bigoted, racist and sexist preconceptions I carried. Ditch religion/god (the two things are the same regardless of what religious people will try to tell you) and realise that we are just a bunch of poorly evolved primates who don't know much about anything, it is a great leveller that tames the ego.

So my counter question to you is this; lets say something came up tomorrow to definitively prove the bible is a fiction, would you go and blow your brains out? Wouldn't you just do what I did and readjust your thinking, your life? Honest answer please.

Yes, your statement ".....and realise that we are just a bunch of poorly evolved primates who don't know much about anything, it is a great leveller that tames the ego."...... is classic. Your two word description "poorly evolved" is the tragic truth...... almost, but not quite...... almost human, almost evolved, yes, so much to think, so little time......

lewisnotmiller · Sep 11, 2017

Vee said:
It is true that many battles have been won, but unfortunately we're headed to losing the war. If your life is good, I'm happy for you, but think about all the millions of people who can't say the same.
Humans are destroying this planet. 1% of the world population owns more resources than the other 99% combined. Weather changes are bringing more violent events like hurricanes and storms, just look at the news this week.
Violence, racism and intolerance are everywhere.
Even in developed countries like yours, how many people don't have enough money to make it to the end of the month? How many can't afford to pay their bills and are heavily indebted? Were heading to a market correction and even with all the manipulation and delaying of the inevitable, I can only see this ending in tragedy and more will be stolen from the poor to be given to the rich. I'm not making this up or being dramatic. If you do some research you'll find the data.
Do you really think the world is getting better?

What are you comparing the world to? What is your frame of reference?

Darkstorn · Sep 11, 2017

Vee said:
Living in a world as horrible as this one

I can see why you would be lured in by JW's when they spout crap like that and promise salvation.

But it's not true. This world is not horrible. It has no intent behind it. Only people have such intent. So if it's horrible, blame the people, your JW's included.

LuisDantas · Sep 11, 2017

Vee said:
I didn't create anything. I believe, like may others do, that we're not here by change and someone created the universe and everything in it.

A popular belief, apparently. It will always sound exotic to me, but I guess that can't be helped.

Faith and religion are different things and you can have one without the other. I did for a long time.

I guess that is true, but not particularly meaningful. Organizing and exchanging our ideas is a good thing. We should, of course, exercise discernment all the way through.

It's not that God can't fix this world. He can and the bible says he will. His authority was challenged. Someone said that humans would be better off on their own. God decided to give us a chance to prove that point but it is temporary and he will intervene in due time.

If I understood you well, you seem to share what I understand to be a very common belief among Christians: that while God is indeed all-powerful, he also chooses to limit his interventions so as not to intrude on the expression of human free will.

I don't think that works very well, though. For one thing, "free will" is a very problematic idea, to the point that it feels very difficult to see an actual use or meaning for it outside of what seems to be its original role, that of explaining the limits of what is supposed to be a limitless deity.

More problematic still is that this model proposed ultimately states that the supposed source and reference for the very ideas of wisdom, awareness and compassion somehow found it proper to, essentially, neglect very serious matters and make a very many generations pay for it in order to prove a point to some unspecified person or people.

That, frankly, is not very admirable behavior for an actual person. It is even less reassuring if it comes from a deity with power of creation. Am I supposed to have liberating faith in the existence of a God whose authority I should trust, even if he would make a lousy condominium manager?

looking at the way we are treating this planet, soon most forms of life will be gone and the earth will be ruined. Not a fantastic outcome.

Not a fantastic one, indeed, and I must assume that dealing with that grim perspective is difficult enough for many people to dearly hope it will be averted by a higher power.

That does not make it true, for better or worse.

Araceli Cianna · Sep 11, 2017

I think it's your perception of the world that determines everything else. I believe the world is beautiful as it is, perfect, magical, and wonderful. Sure bad things happen too but I don't focus on them, instead I focus on minimising such things through activism. And that makes this life 100% worth living to me, with no need for a hope in a better afterlife. I want to do my part to make this world better.

HonestJoe · Sep 11, 2017

Vee said:
How do non-believers cope with the reality of the world? If you believe that this life is all there is and nothing else can be expected, how do you keep emotionally balanced? What is your source of strength and happiness?

All sorts of different ways I expect (just like believers). I think it’s’ important to recognise that there isn’t really any commonality amongst all the people who happen not to believe in any kind of god or gods just as there isn’t any commonality between all the people who do. After all, it isn’t strictly necessary to believe in a god, especially of the kind you do, to have an idea of some kind of “beautiful future” ahead for some or all of us.

Nothing personal but I have to say I find that idea wishful thinking, with no valid reason beyond blind faith that it is the case (or that we’ll be personally included in this wonderful future). To be fair, how most of us cope with the less pleasant realities of life will include a significant element of wishful thinking, just about things in this life instead (or possibly as well).

LuisDantas · Sep 11, 2017

Another thing to keep in mind is that anxieties about the finality of death and the possibility of an afterlife are not necessarily common outside of social environments that teach people to have those anxieties.

As some people put it (IMO unfairly, since it is not a defining characteristic of religion proper): "Religion creates a problem, then present its solution".

Here is a a good article that elaborates on that.

Religion and The Problem of Moral Apathy - Dangerous Talk

Riders · Sep 11, 2017

As a nonbeliever?When you say you believe in an afterlife would that be heaven?If so are you a Christian?

A lot of times when Christians put up posts about non believers in God it becomes confusing because their really talking about being a non Christian.

But as a believer in the Gods Godesses and Zen I believe in living in the moment.

When I die I will become one with the earth nature and animals.

I take refuge in the here and now.

I take refuge in the world around me Dharma no matter how terrible the world is.

Quintessence · Sep 11, 2017

PureX said:
I understood that I am in control of how I perceive the world that I live in. And thereby, I am in control of how I feel about it. It took me another year or so of practice, but I did eventually begin to change my default mode of perception from the negative to the positive.

Perhaps the most important bit of wisdom in this thread so far. Whether theist or atheist, we all spin different narratives about how the world is for us. Those stories we tell ourselves then, in turn, impact how we carry ourselves.

Question for unbelievers

Faith's Nightmare

Well-Known Member

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.

Well-Known Member

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.

Reality First!

Fartist

Think & Care

Aura of atheification

Active Member

Reality First!

Grand Hat

This shows how unique i am.

Aura of atheification

Active Member

Well-Known Member

Aura of atheification

Well-Known Member

Consults with Trees