Mujahid Mohammed
Well-Known Member
Asalamu alaikum to my muslim brothers and sisters, Greetings to all. This is a wonderful conversation recorded between a muslim and a christian. It has 15 chapters so I will try to include 15 parts to this post. I pray it is inciteful.
THE FIRST CONTACT BETWEEN A CHRISTIAN AND A MUSLIM - Part 1
C. Why have there been in the last decade many disscussions held between Christians and Muslims about their beliefs?
M. I think because we both have several things in common. We believe in the One Creator Who had sent many Prophets and in Jesus as the Messiah as well as the Word of God which had been denied by the Jews.
Our Holy Quran mentions in Surah 3:45: Remember when the angels said, "O Mary! Verily Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word from Him, His name will be Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and in the hereafter, and of those who are near to Allah..."
Dialogues have been held everywhere in Europe, Canada, the USA, and Australia. Even the Vatican is not spared where discussions were held between Vatican theologians and Egyptian Muslim scholars in Rome in 1970 and in Cairo in 1974 and 1978. Also between Vatican theologians and Saudi Arabian Muslim scholars in Rome in 1974. Many times in Colombo, not to mention Muslims invited by many churches to present Islam.
C. If Christianity is nearly 2 thousand years old and Islam more than 1400 years, why were these discussions not held centuries ago?
M. for the last 3 to 4 centuries many Asian and African countries dominated by Muslims were colonized by Britain, France, Holland, Belgium, Spain, and Portugal. Many Christian mission colonists tried to convert as many Muslims as they could by whatever means they had, by giving them medical treatment, clothes, food, jobs to the poor, but only a few were converted. A small part of the elite were converted to Christianity because of their prejudice that Christianity brought them to their civilization and progress of knowledge. They had a wrong notion because this progress was attained after the seperation of state and church in Europe.
After the Second World War many Muslims from Asian and African countries were emigrating as workers and professionals to the Western Hemisphere, which brought them more in contact with the Christians. Also students were active in introducing Islam.
C. Do you see other reasons why many dialogues were held nowadays even by their respective missions?
M. I think the gap between both is becoming smaller as each is more tolerant, although both are still competing in getting more converts. I still remember my Christian teacher who used to say, "Muhammed the imposter, the dreamer, the epileptic." You now find fewer writers depicting Islam in such a manner.
We Muslims feel close to the Christians than the Jews and disbelievers, as the Quran prophesied in Surah 5:82 "Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe to be the Jews and the Idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe to be those who say: Lo! We are Christians. This is because there are among them priest and monks (i.e. persons entirely devoted to the service of God, as were the Muslims), and because they are not proud." Some Christian denominations are making tremendous progress now by acknowledging for the first time in history that Muhammed (pbuh) descended from Ishmael through his second son Kedar. The Davis Dictionary of the Bible, 1980, sponsored by the Board of Christian Education of the Presbyterian Church in the USA, writes under the word Kedar: "....A tribe descended from Ishmael (Gen 25:13)...The people of Kedar were pliny's Cedrai, and from their tribe Muhammed ultimately arose." The international Standard Bible Encyclepedia quotes the following from A.S. Fulton:".... Of the Ishmaelite tribes, Kedar must have been one of the most important, and thus in later times the name came to be applied to all the wild tribes of the desert. It is through Kedar (Arab, Keidar) that Muslim genealogists trace the descent of Muhammed from Ishmael."
Also Smith's Bible Dictionary will not stay begind and prints the following: "Kedar (black) Second son of Ishmael (Gen. 25:13)...Muhammmed traces his lineage to Abraham through the celebrated Quraish (Koraysh) tribe, which sprang from Kedar. The Arabs in the Hejaz are called Bani Harb (men of war), and are Ishmaelites as of old, from their beginning Palgrabe says their language is as pure now as when the Quran was written (A.D. 610) having unchanged more than 1200 years; a fine proof of the permanency of Eastern Institutions."
The biggest asset brought by Muslim immigrants to the Western hemisphere is not their manpower but the Islam which is now taking root here. Many mosques and Islamic centers are established and many are reverted into Islam. I prefer the word reverted and not converted, as everybody is born in submission to Allah, ie. Islam, this is the nature of evey child born. The parents or the community convert him to Judaism, Christianity, other faiths, or atheism.
This is also a proof that Islam is not spreading by the sword but simply by propagation by individuals or groups of Muslims. We don't have special missions organized as in Christian missions.
The world population had increased 136% from 1934 through 1984, Christianity with 47% and Islam with 235%. See The Plain Truth, Feb. 1984, in its 50 year Anniversary issue, quoting from The World Almanac and Book of Facts 1935 and Reader Digest Almanac and Year-book 1983.
C. If all three religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are claiming to emanate from the One and same Creator, why do they differ?
M. All Prophets from Adam to Muhammed (pbut) were sent with the same message: that is, the total submission of mankind to Allah. This submission in Arabic is called Islam; Islam means also Peace, peace between the Creator and His creatures, Unlike the names Judaism, Christianity, this name Islam has been given by Allah, the Creator Himself, as mentioned in Surah 5:3 "This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed My favour on you, and have chosen Islam as the way of life Al-Islam as your religion." No Israelite prophet mentioned the word Judaism. Jesus never claimed to establish Christianity on earth and never called himself a Christian. The word Christian is only mentioned 3 times in the New Testament and first by pagans and Jews in Antioch about 43 A.D, long after Jesus had left this earth, Read in Acts 11:26"...And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch," Later by King Arippa II to Paul in Acts 26:28.
So the name Christian was first given by foes rather than friends. And finally by Peter in his letter to comfort the faithful in 1 Peter 4:16.
The first Muslim on earth is not Muhammed but Abrahmam [actually it was Adam. He was the first to submit but Abraham was known as a muslim. Muhammed was the first to be called it by name] who submitted totally to Allah. But Islam as a way of life had been revealed to other prophets prior to Abraham like Noad. Then Islam follows as the way of Life for all humanity.
C. How could Abraham be a Muslim? He is known as a Jew!
M. A Jew? Who told you that?
C. We are taught that; it must be confirmed by the Bible too.
M. Can you show me where in the Bible it says that he is a Jew? If you cant find it quickly, let me help you. Read Genesis 11:31
C. "And Tearah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, adn Sarai his daughter in law, his some Abram's wife, and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan, and they came unto Haran and dwelt there."
M. "So Abraham who was born in Ur of Chaldees could not have been a Jew. First because ur of Chaldees was in Mesopotamia, which is now a part of Iraq. He was then more an Arab than a Jew. Secondly the name Jew came after the existence of Judah, the great-grandson of Abraham, Read further, Genesis 12:4-5
C. "...and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran... and into the land of Canaan they come."
M. So Abrahmam emigrated to Canaan at the age of 75 and the Bible clearly mentioned that he was ther a stranger in Genesis 17:8 "And I will give unto thee, adn to they seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." Read now Genesis 14:13.
THE FIRST CONTACT BETWEEN A CHRISTIAN AND A MUSLIM - Part 1
C. Why have there been in the last decade many disscussions held between Christians and Muslims about their beliefs?
M. I think because we both have several things in common. We believe in the One Creator Who had sent many Prophets and in Jesus as the Messiah as well as the Word of God which had been denied by the Jews.
Our Holy Quran mentions in Surah 3:45: Remember when the angels said, "O Mary! Verily Allah gives you the glad tidings of a Word from Him, His name will be Messiah Jesus, the son of Mary, held in honor in this world and in the hereafter, and of those who are near to Allah..."
Dialogues have been held everywhere in Europe, Canada, the USA, and Australia. Even the Vatican is not spared where discussions were held between Vatican theologians and Egyptian Muslim scholars in Rome in 1970 and in Cairo in 1974 and 1978. Also between Vatican theologians and Saudi Arabian Muslim scholars in Rome in 1974. Many times in Colombo, not to mention Muslims invited by many churches to present Islam.
C. If Christianity is nearly 2 thousand years old and Islam more than 1400 years, why were these discussions not held centuries ago?
M. for the last 3 to 4 centuries many Asian and African countries dominated by Muslims were colonized by Britain, France, Holland, Belgium, Spain, and Portugal. Many Christian mission colonists tried to convert as many Muslims as they could by whatever means they had, by giving them medical treatment, clothes, food, jobs to the poor, but only a few were converted. A small part of the elite were converted to Christianity because of their prejudice that Christianity brought them to their civilization and progress of knowledge. They had a wrong notion because this progress was attained after the seperation of state and church in Europe.
After the Second World War many Muslims from Asian and African countries were emigrating as workers and professionals to the Western Hemisphere, which brought them more in contact with the Christians. Also students were active in introducing Islam.
C. Do you see other reasons why many dialogues were held nowadays even by their respective missions?
M. I think the gap between both is becoming smaller as each is more tolerant, although both are still competing in getting more converts. I still remember my Christian teacher who used to say, "Muhammed the imposter, the dreamer, the epileptic." You now find fewer writers depicting Islam in such a manner.
We Muslims feel close to the Christians than the Jews and disbelievers, as the Quran prophesied in Surah 5:82 "Thou wilt find the most vehement of mankind in hostility to those who believe to be the Jews and the Idolaters. And thou wilt find the nearest of them in affection to those who believe to be those who say: Lo! We are Christians. This is because there are among them priest and monks (i.e. persons entirely devoted to the service of God, as were the Muslims), and because they are not proud." Some Christian denominations are making tremendous progress now by acknowledging for the first time in history that Muhammed (pbuh) descended from Ishmael through his second son Kedar. The Davis Dictionary of the Bible, 1980, sponsored by the Board of Christian Education of the Presbyterian Church in the USA, writes under the word Kedar: "....A tribe descended from Ishmael (Gen 25:13)...The people of Kedar were pliny's Cedrai, and from their tribe Muhammed ultimately arose." The international Standard Bible Encyclepedia quotes the following from A.S. Fulton:".... Of the Ishmaelite tribes, Kedar must have been one of the most important, and thus in later times the name came to be applied to all the wild tribes of the desert. It is through Kedar (Arab, Keidar) that Muslim genealogists trace the descent of Muhammed from Ishmael."
Also Smith's Bible Dictionary will not stay begind and prints the following: "Kedar (black) Second son of Ishmael (Gen. 25:13)...Muhammmed traces his lineage to Abraham through the celebrated Quraish (Koraysh) tribe, which sprang from Kedar. The Arabs in the Hejaz are called Bani Harb (men of war), and are Ishmaelites as of old, from their beginning Palgrabe says their language is as pure now as when the Quran was written (A.D. 610) having unchanged more than 1200 years; a fine proof of the permanency of Eastern Institutions."
The biggest asset brought by Muslim immigrants to the Western hemisphere is not their manpower but the Islam which is now taking root here. Many mosques and Islamic centers are established and many are reverted into Islam. I prefer the word reverted and not converted, as everybody is born in submission to Allah, ie. Islam, this is the nature of evey child born. The parents or the community convert him to Judaism, Christianity, other faiths, or atheism.
This is also a proof that Islam is not spreading by the sword but simply by propagation by individuals or groups of Muslims. We don't have special missions organized as in Christian missions.
The world population had increased 136% from 1934 through 1984, Christianity with 47% and Islam with 235%. See The Plain Truth, Feb. 1984, in its 50 year Anniversary issue, quoting from The World Almanac and Book of Facts 1935 and Reader Digest Almanac and Year-book 1983.
C. If all three religions, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam are claiming to emanate from the One and same Creator, why do they differ?
M. All Prophets from Adam to Muhammed (pbut) were sent with the same message: that is, the total submission of mankind to Allah. This submission in Arabic is called Islam; Islam means also Peace, peace between the Creator and His creatures, Unlike the names Judaism, Christianity, this name Islam has been given by Allah, the Creator Himself, as mentioned in Surah 5:3 "This day I have perfected your religion for you and completed My favour on you, and have chosen Islam as the way of life Al-Islam as your religion." No Israelite prophet mentioned the word Judaism. Jesus never claimed to establish Christianity on earth and never called himself a Christian. The word Christian is only mentioned 3 times in the New Testament and first by pagans and Jews in Antioch about 43 A.D, long after Jesus had left this earth, Read in Acts 11:26"...And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch," Later by King Arippa II to Paul in Acts 26:28.
So the name Christian was first given by foes rather than friends. And finally by Peter in his letter to comfort the faithful in 1 Peter 4:16.
The first Muslim on earth is not Muhammed but Abrahmam [actually it was Adam. He was the first to submit but Abraham was known as a muslim. Muhammed was the first to be called it by name] who submitted totally to Allah. But Islam as a way of life had been revealed to other prophets prior to Abraham like Noad. Then Islam follows as the way of Life for all humanity.
C. How could Abraham be a Muslim? He is known as a Jew!
M. A Jew? Who told you that?
C. We are taught that; it must be confirmed by the Bible too.
M. Can you show me where in the Bible it says that he is a Jew? If you cant find it quickly, let me help you. Read Genesis 11:31
C. "And Tearah took Abram his son, and Lot the son of Haran his son's son, adn Sarai his daughter in law, his some Abram's wife, and they went forth with them from Ur of the Chaldees, to go into the land of Canaan, and they came unto Haran and dwelt there."
M. "So Abraham who was born in Ur of Chaldees could not have been a Jew. First because ur of Chaldees was in Mesopotamia, which is now a part of Iraq. He was then more an Arab than a Jew. Secondly the name Jew came after the existence of Judah, the great-grandson of Abraham, Read further, Genesis 12:4-5
C. "...and Abram was seventy and five years old when he departed out of Haran... and into the land of Canaan they come."
M. So Abrahmam emigrated to Canaan at the age of 75 and the Bible clearly mentioned that he was ther a stranger in Genesis 17:8 "And I will give unto thee, adn to they seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God." Read now Genesis 14:13.
