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Orthodox More Honest about Scripture?

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
they tend to view the creation accounts as being more symbolic, quite possibly taken from a Babylonian narrative that we altered to reflect Jewish mores and teachings
This is not what any believer would claim. This is true unbeliever nonsense. The fact is that if one accepts that God confused our languages at Babylon and all came from Noah and his wife a few hundred years previously, that the shared knowledge would not make it Babylonian, but of origin from Noah. What the Jews included that other nations didn't then would have to either be their racial memory or direct information from God.

Secondly, there is linguistic evidence based on glottochronology (study of the evolution of language) that 1:1 and 2:4 were written at different times and by different authors. This is what the evidence at least indicates.
If you don't see that this is not an acceptance of scripture as inspired by God, and understand how Jesus accepted the historicity of the Biblical accounts - then you do not understand what it is to believe in God and his Inspired Word. The ones you describe here are not believers but Bible critics.

The problem with Bible critics is that they do not think God capable of communicating for real with people or do anything in our world. They are disapproved ones without faith.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
This is not what any believer would claim. This is true unbeliever nonsense.
Yes, I'm an "unbeliever" in regards to the traditional Abrahamic concepts of God, but there are myriads of both Jewish and Christian scholars who are not literalists but who do practice their faith regularly.

If you don't see that this is not an acceptance of scripture as inspired by God, and understand how Jesus accepted the historicity of the Biblical accounts - then you do not understand what it is to believe in God and his Inspired Word. The ones you describe here are not believers but Bible critics.
The question of "divine inspiration" is just that-- a question, according to a great many scholars. IOW, in which way and to what extent are the scriptures inspired? Opinions vary.

The problem with Bible critics is that they do not think God capable of communicating for real with people or do anything in our world. They are disapproved ones without faith.
I don't believe in idolatry, and treating the Bible as if is in some way perfect is pretty much just that. I read the Bible literally every day of the week, but I simply cannot and will not make any claim that it is 100% divinely inspired, especially since there's literally no way of knowing with any degree of certainty.

And how could you possibly know to what extent the Bible is divinely inspired? Were you there when it was written? You make accusations of those who question the degree of inspiration the Bible has, and yet I guarantee you that you cannot provide one shred of evidence to support your claim.

But worse than that is the degree that you go to claim that people who don't agree with you are "unbelievers". You are judging people and ignoring what Jesus said in terms of "judge ye not" and Paul saying that he wouldn't even judge himself.

I find such judgmentalism to be morally deplorable, therefore our conversation has just come to a halt because, if you are so willing to ignore what Jesus and Paul supposedly said according to the Biblical accounts, then why should I continue?

The litmus test for a Christian has long been what John 3[16] says, and that verse doesn't say anything about having to believe in a literal of the Bible, especially since the canon of the Bible had not even been chosen at that time. So, apparently you also don't believe in that verse as well, and yet you claim to be a literalist who thinks the entire Bible is totally "divinely inspired".

Maybe stop judging others and we can have a serious conversation some day, but for the time being at least, I'm finished.
 

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
who are not literalists but who do practice their faith regularly.
It is not my job to judge these, and I hope they won't be if they live good moral lives. The problem is simple, however, if they do not believe in a literal chapter 2, 3 of Genesis, the ransom looses its foundation and becomes a NULL action. This affects salvation.

in which way and to what extent are the scriptures inspired
When taking e.g. Paul, it is clear that while he was inspired, he also was permitted to voice personal opinion. Likewise, the gospels have personal flavor colored by each individual. This does not make it more human, in fact, it simply shows how God works with his clay. So, if in this little post, my statements totally were in line with scripture, one might say that it is inspired. If not, then disregard it.
litmus test for a Christian has long been what John 3[16]
That is funny that you quote that scripture, for belief in Christ is belief in his ransom, and his ransom is based on redemption from Adam's sin; so, Adam's sin is a foundation dogma of faith.
However, everyone has the right to believe and do as they choose. Just don't forget what Jesus said:
John 12:47-50 . . .I do not judge him; for I came, not to judge the world, but to save the world. 48 He that disregards me and does not receive my sayings has one to judge him. The word that I have spoken is what will judge him in the last day; 49 because I have not spoken out of my own impulse, but the Father himself who sent me has given me a commandment as to what to tell and what to speak. 50 Also, I know that his commandment means everlasting life.. . .​

Do your best. That is all anyone can do.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Are orthodox religions more honest about what their scriptures say?

I was talking with an atheist friend one day and they said that Christian Fundamentalists are more honest about what thier scriptures are saying in particular, young earth creationists. I can appreciate the honesty as well, it is quite refreshing, even if I were opposed to some of the theology or morality that might come out of it.

Thoughts?

In case anyone needs a definition of orthodox.
  1. (of a person or their views, especially religious or political ones, or other beliefs or practices) conforming to what is generally or traditionally accepted as right or true; established and approved:

I do not believe orthodoxy guarantees correctness but certainly they are not lying about what they believe no matter how far fetched. However do I think belief guarantees that a true perspective will result, no I don't.
 
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