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“Why Don't You Look Into Jesus?”

Can Christianity and polytheism be reconciled?

  • Yes

    Votes: 5 17.2%
  • No

    Votes: 20 69.0%
  • It Depends

    Votes: 3 10.3%
  • Other (please explain)

    Votes: 1 3.4%

  • Total voters
    29

idav

Being
Premium Member
Mostly because people don't like being told by others what they believe, as if they're stupid and have no idea what their beliefs are. It's rude.
There can be some confusion. It's only trying to explain the very nature of how God connects with humans. No biggie.

I doubt that's on the final exam though.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Mostly because people don't like being told by others what they believe, as if they're stupid and have no idea what their beliefs are. It's rude.

I was raised in the Roman Church, and studied for the Priesthood in the Saint Franciscan Order. I know full well what the Roman, Orthodox and Traditional Protestant churches teach and believe. Our disagreement is not based on a lack of knowledge of the churches and what they believe.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
Certainly that's the official version.

But then, people pray to Mary. They don't really think she's an intermediary, she's not going to pass your request up the line to HQ, she's not really going to bother the Big Guy with the small stuff, she'll do it herself.

Or if you misplace your passport on a visit to North Korea, and you pray with some fervor to St Anthony of Padua, and then it turns up in your overcoat pocket, it's Tony who gets your gratitude, surely?

So theory says one thing and practice is another. You can't tell people better than they already know.

(I'm reminded of a report from rural France in the mid 19th century where the town was very unhappy with their new priest ─ not only couldn't he speak their dialect, but he point-blank refused to baptize their cattle like the old priest would. They demanded his removal. That's not a joke, by the way.)
If you think it's Mary answering your prayers on her own and not God, then you're a heretic. The Saints are just the Church in Heaven. They're our brothers and sisters in faith and can help us through prayer, but are not deities.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
I was raised in the Roman Church, and studied for the Priesthood in the Saint Franciscan Order. I know full well what the Roman, Orthodox and Traditional Protestant churches teach and believe. Our disagreement is not based on a lack of knowledge of the churches and what they believe.
Either you were taught some wrong things, you misunderstand them or you're just towing the line of your current religion.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
How so, shunya?
I will give it some thought and may respond with more, but simply the early texts of Judaism are clearly Canaanite/Ugarite in origin, and archaeology shows that the early Hebrew/Canaanite pastoral tribes had a male and female God at least. Early references also refer to the Most Highest God above other Gods. Later texts emphatically declared; There is no other God, but God.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
If you think it's Mary answering your prayers on her own and not God, then you're a heretic. The Saints are just the Church in Heaven. They're our brothers and sisters in faith and can help us through prayer, but are not deities.
As I said, the theory's lovely but it doesn't wash with those of the faithful who know better, who know deep down in their hearts that Mary's the tender shoulder they need, the gal to solve their problems.

Otherwise, why have any saints at all? (a question answered very effectively by certain protestant denominations who don't).
.
I dare say even the late lamented Sts Christopher and George still get their share of prayers and answer them as well as they ever did.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
As I said, the theory's lovely but it doesn't wash with those of the faithful who know better, who know deep down in their hearts that Mary's the tender shoulder they need, the gal to solve their problems.

Otherwise, why have any saints at all? (a question answered very effectively by certain protestant denominations who don't).
.
I dare say even the late lamented Sts Christopher and George still get their share of prayers and answer them as well as they ever did.
The point still stands that if people are approaching the Saints as deities then they are heretics. It doesn't matter what they believe, it's dogma that matters here.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Either you were taught some wrong things, you misunderstand them or you're just towing the line of your current religion.

No, I do not misunderstand anything, nor was 'I taught some wrong things.' I have studied the theology and philosophy of many religions and beliefs for 40+ years at least. You cannot brush off a difference between us in such rude egocentric manner and present a coherent argument.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The point still stands that if people are approaching the Saints as deities then they are heretics. It doesn't matter what they believe, it's dogma that matters here.
Not to them, sir, not to them.

Like the French folk I mentioned, they know what they know. The priest is the heretic if he's out of tune, the one who has to shape up or ship out.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Wanderer From Afar
Premium Member
No, I do not misunderstand anything, nor was 'I taught some wrong things.' I have studied the theology and philosophy of many religions and beliefs for 40+ years at least. You cannot brush off a difference between us in such rude egocentric manner and present a coherent argument.
Well, you're either misunderstanding things or just towing the Baha'i line of belief on this matter, which it appears to get from Islam. Either way, you're wrong. I'm not a polytheist and I don't appreciate people telling me that I am. Case closed.
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
I'm not gonna lie, it hasn't been easy for me as a spiritual seeker. My mind has flipped every which way, to the point where I've lost a sense of my own self. :(:(:( Don't get me wrong, everyone! I haven't lost my now firm polytheistic conviction (especially as an unlimited polytheist :yum:)! Never. Though, I often times start to think deeply about my relationship with the religion of my youth – Christianity....

Mind you, I hold no animosity whatsoever towards it, or towards Jesus Christ, or The Bible. It's undoubtedly an ever-lingering presence in my life (and a positive one, at that, conjuring more than pleasant memories and emotions). However, with my 21st birthday speedily approaching, I realize that I'm on the threshold of the future of manhood, and that I can't hold on to the past. At the same time, though, my past will always be a part of me. I can't deny it. Religiously, I see no reason to distance myself from Christianity (again, despite my polytheism).

My question is: Do you see any way for me to reconcile my past (Christianity) with my present (unlimited polytheism)? Is it even possible or should my past simply be left in the past? :coldsweat:


Thanks, everyone. I very greatly appreciate the advice given. :oops::)
A Christian cannot be a polytheist. This is simply impossible, as we believe in and worship only the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the one God. However, you can be an animist Christian and believe that everything in our world is alive (I tend towards this idea at times). Some nature spirits are more powerful than others. But ultimately, everything praises God. You may want to read the Akathist of Thanksgiving and see if it gives you any inspiration. I would also recommend Psalms 148, and St. Francis of Assisi's Canticle of the Sun.
 
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Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
I voted depends, because I consider traditional Christianity Tri-theistic at least, and a version of polytheism with the OT and the NT depicting a hierarchy of Gods, even a rebel God Satan. This polytheism includes a female God Mary a descendant of the female Gods of the Old Testament.

The Old Testament describes polytheism evolving to a hierarchy of Gods, and then evolving to Monotheism.
Mary is only a goddess to Christian Wiccans, and she only functions like a goddess in certain sects of post-Fatima Roman Catholic devotional life (though Mary being a goddess would be rank heresy in the Catholic Church, just as in any other Christian church). She is in no way, shape or form a goddess in Eastern Orthodoxy, Oriental Orthodoxy or the Assyrian Church of the East. Also, Satan is a rebellious evil spirit, not a deity.

You may disagree with the Trinity, you may choose to call it tritheism, but the fact remains that the Trinity as defined is strictly monotheistic in nature. For example, in Arab lands, Orthodox Christians (especially the Antiochian Orthodox) say "In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, one God." The Trinity is a Tri-unity, not an assembly of three different gods. I would recommend reading the declarations made by the First Council of Nicaea and the First Council of Constantinople for more information on this matter.

Moreover, I don't see how Christianity being polytheistic follows logically from the Israelite religion having started out polytheistic but then slowly phasing into monotheism. That's like saying that Judaism is polytheistic because of the same history.
 
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Sundance

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A Christian cannot be a polytheist. This is simply impossible, as we believe in and worship only the Father, Son and Holy Spirit, the one God. However, you can be an animist Christian and believe that everything in our world is alive (I tend towards this idea at times). Some nature spirits are more powerful than others. But ultimately, everything praises God. You may want to read the Akathist of Thanksgiving and see if it gives you any inspiration. I would also recommend Psalms 148, and St. Francis of Assisi's Canticle of the Sun.

This is very interesting to me, Shiranui! Thank you. :D
 
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YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
(I'm reminded of a report from rural France in the mid 19th century where the town was very unhappy with their new priest ─ not only couldn't he speak their dialect, but he point-blank refused to baptize their cattle like the old priest would. They demanded his removal. That's not a joke, by the way.)
That certainly adds new meaning to the old expression, "Holy cow!"
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
In regards to the OP, I can't wrap my head around why anyone would want to reconcile the two vastly different approaches.
 

Sundance

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@YmirGF, I suppose it is a rather wonky kind of question. Though, in any case, I guess the two can't be reconciled after all. :( It seems to be a matter of integrity. Such, I deem very honorable. :)
 
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YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
@YmirGF, I suppose it is a rather wonky kind of question. Though, in any case, I guess the two can't be reconciled after all. :( It seems to be a matter of integrity. Such, I deem very honorable. :)
You could try but I'd imagine it would be a theological nightmare.
 

Sundance

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You could try but I'd imagine it would be a theological nightmare.

I mean, I can see the potential confusion which would inevitably result from trying to combine the two. :confused:
 
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