InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
I am not saying there is, or is not in Bahai Scriptures. But if you want to discuss it, you should find and quote it here with the source. Then we can look at it, and think about it.
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I thought maybe I could find a quote from one of our past or present leaders about the Baha'i Faith, but I couldn't find anything that referred to them specifically. The following two quotes, however, are fairly representative of how we view other religions generally:
“The great religious leaders of the world such as Mohammed, Confucius, and the Reformers, as well as philosophers including Socrates, Plato, and others, received a portion of God’s light. Moral truths were given to them by God to enlighten whole nations and to bring a higher level of understanding to individuals.”
“While the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is established for the instruction of men, it is ONE of God’s instrumentalities for making known the truth; yet God is not limited to that institution for such purposes, neither in time nor place. He raises up wise men and prophets here and there among all the children of men, of their own tongue and nationality, speaking to them through means that they can comprehend; not always giving a fulness of truth such as may be found in the fulness of the gospel of Jesus Christ; but always giving that measure of truth that the people are prepared to receive. Mormonism holds, then, that all the great teachers are servants of God among all nations and in all ages. They are inspired men, appointed to instruct God’s children according to the conditions in the midst of which he finds them… Whenever God finds a soul sufficiently enlightened and pure; one with whom His Spirit can communicate, lo! He makes of him a teacher of men.”
You asked what Baha'is do with Mormons and what Mormons do with Baha'is. I'm not 100% sure of what you meant by the word "with" unless you were just asking about attitudes, which is what my two quotes described.
Yes, we have prophesies about the return of Jesus Christ, but I really have no idea about how the Baha'is fit into those prophesies. We certainly don't believe that they'll all be cast into Hell or some other such nonsense, if that's what you were thinking.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I think my post #10183 probably answers that question. Basically, it is our belief that there is truth and goodness in almost every religion. While we aren't the slightest bit ecumenically inclined, we do a great deal to foster understanding and the goal of peace between religions. Every year here in Salt Lake City the LDS Church hosts an interfaith musical tribute in which most of the world's major religions -- including the Baha'i Faith -- participate. The LDS Church is also an active participant in Salt Lake City's Interfaith Roundtable, which was established in 1999 in preparation for the 2002 Olympic Winter Games when they came to Salt Lake. It's history and goals are as follows:
In 1999, the Salt Lake Organizing Committee for the 2002 Olympic Winter Games formed an Interfaith Roundtable whose purpose was to fulfill the Olympic Charter requirement to “provide religious support” for athletes and families. Forty-five faith leaders from over 22 faiths joined together as the SLOC Interfaith Roundtable to help welcome the world to Utah. These faith representatives collaborated to provide chaplain support for athletes, a directory of faiths in Utah, interfaith web pages, and newfound interfaith respect in Utah. Out of this work for the 2002 Olympic Winter Games came a desire to continue this interfaith dialogue, friendship, and understanding. The Salt Lake Interfaith Roundtable has continued to meet monthly ever since and collaborate on mutual interfaith goals.
Goals & Objectives
1. Facilitate interfaith respect, understanding and appreciation.
2. Increase understanding through interfaith dialogue.
3. Build interfaith collaboration.
4. Explore ways to address issues of religiously motivated hate and conflict in our community.
5. Maintain an Olympic legacy of continuing respect for cultural diversity, human potential, and world peace.
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Thanks for your response and Baha'is would have a similar outlook. I have found the Mormons somewhat more moderate and tolerant than the some of your fellow Christians, who may take a hard line on the supposed exclusive claims of Jesus.
I've researched Mormonism. @CG Didymus had asked me a question about my views on the origins of Mormonism, that sides more with religious scholars than the Mormons themselves. I responded and echoed that response to @Katzpur. What's the problem?
Thanks for that.
Then we agree to disagree because to me the context in Sodom is abundantly clear to me.
Here are my thoughts about possible meanings. There will be others.
Refers to the hidden words.
Composed in Baghdad in 1274 AH (1857-8 CE), Bahá’u’lláh describes The Hidden Words as a distillation of the spiritual guidance contained in the successive Revelations of God. Shoghi Effendi called it Bahá’u’lláh’s pre-eminent ethical work.
The Hidden Words
An allusion to the Manifestation of God.
The Word of God.
'...a distillation of the spiritual guidance contained in the successive Revelations of God.' Shoghi Effendi
The work is brief and a good starting point for someone unfamiliar with Baha'u'llah's writings.
A Covenant is an agreement between two parties, in this case man and God. The first known Covenant, to my knowledge, is recorded in the OT in genesis between the Hebrew people and Yahweh (God). God expects of humanity certain behaviour (that we will recognise His Teachers and prophets and follow their teachings) and in turn God will bless those that are obedient.
That we will manifest in our lives the virtues of God such as justice, love, truthfulness etc.
I would be interested in the thoughts of my Baha'i friends.
It does take a while to get used to Baha'u'llah's style of writing, but becomes much easier as time goes on. Its like anything really.
You are free to interpret it as you wish. I just see it differently.
The one way to know if something is from God is by its fruits. If it is from God it will be good and bring about peace, harmony and love. If it is not from God it will cause hatred and war and prejudice.
I think there is so much more to it than that. I don't think these Messengers went through horrendous suffering and torture just to correct people.
My understanding is They sacrificed Themselves out of compassion and love for the oppressed, the poor, those who were victims of cruelty and injustice or dominated by ruthless tyrants who made them slaves.
They gave up lives of comfort in exchange for cruelty, torture or crucifixion so we could all have things like freedom of religion, human rights, a good education, that everyone would be treated with dignity, that we would live in peace and become as a true family.
They sacrificed everything to these ends so that we may have it better. And we do. And They still suffer humiliation, exile and imprisonement ands torture when They come and try to free us from oppression ands injustice resulting in things like equal rights for all, education for all and medical care for all. Their concern is our wellbeing both material and spiritual. They are our True Friends. They could have lived out comfortable lives but they chose to do things like admonish kings, rebuke religious leaders for being unjust and They stood up always for the poor and needy and against all oppression and injustice and discrimination.
If anybody, we have Them to thank for all the benefits we enjoy today. The freedom we have in many countries, the human rights we have. But there is much more to be done to make all people free and that is why Baha'u'llah came.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The symbolic verses such as sitting at the Lord's Table are actual events. Christians take this literally. Christianity is built around the Passover-both literal and meaning behind it. The Church and Christians aren't symbolic and the christians before them and the christians before them, their actions too as well as today are not symbolic.
These are taken literally. That is christianity.
I know what Bahai believe and understand it. Do you understand the nature of literalism of spirituality?
I was addressing that because it seemed you didn't know about Joseph Smith's discovery of tablets, and since this was in a basic reading I had done, I assumed (albeit perhaps incorrectly) that you hadn't read much at all.
As an outsider, non-Baha'i', and non-Mormon, I find the two faiths have quite a few similarities. The one key difference in interfaith, is that Mormons seem to let other religions stand as they are, accepting the words of the adherents of those faiths, whilst Baha'i' folk like to misinterpret other religions to suit the Baha'i' agenda. But in terms of timeline. what to do for the world, the idea of a prophet (not sure if Mormons consider Joseph Smith infallible or not) there are many similarities.
As a gesture of goodwill, the LDS church in Salt Lake City gave the last 10% of the fundraising goal for a small Hindu temple in that city, which I have been to on more than one occasion. Not sure if the Baha'i' have a similar policy.
There are tons of people to thank for our freedoms. Many weren't adherents of the Big Nine.
How do you explain religious wars, like the Crusades, or the Muslim invasions and attempted genocide of India?
I, like you, believe that environmental factors are very relevant. There are studies that show high rates of sexual abuse amongst homosexuals and so I wonder how that affects sexual development.
The Baha'i Faith sees homosexuality as an abnormality that in some cases can be overcome.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Environmental factors are relevant in identities in that because of our environment, that is why people develop a way of connection and make sense of themselves in a negative focused environment.
Homosexuality (as opposed to LGBTQ-identities) can probably be influenced by factors in that some may have more attraction while another a diminished attraction. Factors may influence who that person chooses to be with. External factors don't determine who that person is attracted to-male, female, or toaster oven.
I don't understand how homosexual (sexual orientation) can be an abnormity. It's different than the majority that a male would be attracted to a male. The abnormity would not be in the attraction. Most people can experience physical attraction.
How does the object of attraction make that attraction abnormal and not the behavior towards that attraction?
I certainly was aware about Joseph Smith's claims in regards to discovery of tablets. In response to a specific question from another poster about whether I shared this believe, I indicated that it was unlikely. Most scholars would agree with this. I don't want to labour the point because I have no wish to debate the pros and cons of Mormonism and I doubt @Katzpur does either.
I would hope the Baha'is would never interrupt another's presentation at an interfaith gathering. Obviously the Baha'is while in agreement about the same Quran, NT, and Tanakh that the Muslims, Christians, and Jews use, we have a different understanding. Then again, these three Abrahamic faiths all have disagreements resulting in different sects based on these differing understandings/misunderstandings so that is nothing surprising. All three have been involved in wars and have adherents with extremely disparaging views not only of the other Abrahamics but other Faiths. It is not surprising Baha'is see a message of love and unity in their sacred texts, when their adherents have failed to.
That's fantastic. Good for the Mormons for doing that. The Baha'i temples are gifts to all humanity.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Here's a link to 1Corinthians 15. It's a Christian explanation and has the verses they use to come up with the "Glorified" body. "We die a natural human body, but we are raised with an incorruptible body" This he gets from verse 42.
"The resurrected, glorified body receives incorruption, glory, power, making it a spiritual body (42-44). One must have a glorified body to enter the kingdom (I Corinthians 15:35-55). Because our mortal flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God, our bodies must be changed (51-54)."
This answer is good and bad for Baha'is. Here Christians are saying that it is not a normal material flesh but a new spiritual flesh. You guys say we move on to a different spiritual world. It kind of coincides. But, still, if that is true, and Jesus was raised in a spiritual flesh that could be felt and had flesh and bone and could eat, yet was not a ghost, then why didn't Abdu'l Baha say so? "The resurrected, glorified body receives incorruption, glory, power, making it a spiritual body (42-44). One must have a glorified body to enter the kingdom (I Corinthians 15:35-55). Because our mortal flesh cannot inherit the kingdom of God, our bodies must be changed (51-54)."
But he didn't. Instead he comes up with some way to make all the verses about the resurrected Jesus totally symbolic. For that to be true then no body saw Jesus. Nobody touched Jesus, and he ate with no one. His body was lying dead in a grave. And his followers, know spreading his word and bringing life to his teaching... They are his come back to life body.
That is absolutely false to what the NT says and what is believed by Christians.
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
I have a question for you. One of the Baha'i said that no where in their writings does it say Krishna founded Hinduism. But isn't that part of the problem you had with them? I thought one of them said something like that? Don't sweat it too much. I don't want or expect to go back through 500 pages of posts or anything. But, do you remember anything like that?
Regardless, if they didn't say Krishna started Hinduism, then they're still messed up.. because then they don't have any known manifestation that started it.