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Truth

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Nope, I don't have to prove that. I have to prove any consequence of Christianity is false. I gave a couple.

You need to elaborate on why you think what you gave proves anything at all about "the falsehood of Christianity" because what you said doesn't prove it.

Some of Christianity could be untrue but that in no wise proves Christianity itself is a falsehood.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
It is much more likely that people lied or didn't understand what happened than that Jesus rose from the dead. That is quite enough to show Christianity is wrong beyond a *reasonable* doubt.

Wrong. WE have eyewitness testimony from several people who saw the risen Christ. You'll have to do much better than your scheming up assumptions about it.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
You assumed that humans are not apes when you asked to prove apes-to-man evolution. Humans *are* a type of ape. So the evolution was ape-to-ape.

No, humans are not a type of ape. It is on you to prove that they are. It isn't even close to being an established fact, I hate to be the one to inform you of that.
 

allfoak

Alchemist
The train has left the track.

-Gare-Montparnasse---Paris--1895-.jpg
 
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Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
You need to elaborate on why you think what you gave proves anything at all about "the falsehood of Christianity" because what you said doesn't prove it.

Some of Christianity could be untrue but that in no wise proves Christianity itself is a falsehood.


OK, so describe in detail what *you* think it means for Christianity to be false. there are many different claims that are central to Christianity, any one of which can be shown wrong.

1. Jesus rose from the dead. Much less likely than that those around lied or misunderstood what was going on. Extreme claims require extreme proof.

2. Even if 1 is true, it is quite far from showing divinity of any being.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
No, humans are not a type of ape. It is on you to prove that they are. It isn't even close to being an established fact, I hate to be the one to inform you of that.

Yes, it is even easily shown to be the case:

1) Are you made of complex cells with internal organelles? If so, you are a eucaryote.

2) Do your cells have membranes made of lipids rather than walls made from glucosides and are they surrounded by an extracellular matrix composed of collagen and glycoproteins? Then you are an Animal.

3) During embryo development, does the blastopore (the first opening) become the anus? Then you are a Deuterostome.

4) Do you have a head, backbone, brain, red blood cells, and kidneys? Then you are a Vertebrate.

5) Are air-breathing, have hair, three ear bones, sweat glands, the ability to regulate internal temperature and specialized teeth? Then you are a Mammal.

6) Do you lack an epi-pubic bone and do females like you have a uterus which produces a placenta during pregnancy? Then you are a placental Mammal.

7) Do you have a collar bone, opposable fingers, a flat nail on fingers and toes, eye sockets made from bone, stereoscopic vision, an enlarged cerebral cortex? Then you are a Primate.

8) Do you have a narrow nose and downward pointed nostrils, broad rib cage, a fused frontal bone, convoluted cerebral hemispheres, a large brain for his size of mammal, color vision, a lack of tail, and a lack of cheek pouches? Then you are an Ape.

So, yes, if you are human, then you *are* an ape.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Wrong. WE have eyewitness testimony from several people who saw the risen Christ. You'll have to do much better than your scheming up assumptions about it.

No, we do not. None of the writings we have currently are eye-witness accounts. All were written decades after the events. This is generally accepted among Biblical scholars.

The writings we have are quite far from being a reliable source for claims such as rising from the dead.
 

Sanzbir

Well-Known Member
Three things are needed to discern truth:

Observation. Logic. And illumination. Without all three no truth is possible.

Observation without logic or illumination could mean nothing, because you can observe things while dreaming that contain no truth.

Logic without observation and illumination is useless, because you need axioms to build from before you can do anything with logical deduction.

Illumination without observation and logic could mean nothing because you could have some sort of mental disorder influencing your internal sense of things.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
"humans *are* apes" Fallacy of assumed conclusion without premises

You can't test abiogenesis. It happened once supposedly by chance. If you try to test it you ruin the "chance" part of it.

Yes. The jury is still out. Big time.



god formed man from the same place as every other thing, from the ground

Genesis 2:19
Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.

Ecclesiastes 3:18
18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.


and every beast has a soul, or the breath of life(nephesh) in it.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
god formed man from the same place as every other thing, from the ground
Genesis 2:19
Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.
Ecclesiastes 3:18
18 I said in my heart with regard to the children of man that God is testing them that they may see that they themselves are but beasts.
and every beast has a soul, or the breath of life(nephesh) in it.

' has a soul ' or ' is a soul '.
No where at Genesis 2:7 does it say Adam had a soul or that Adam possessed a soul, rather Adam was a soul.
I find that hold true also for animals according to Numbers 31:28. Animals and humans are souls or living creation.
At Adam's death (all of Adam) simply ' returned ' to where Adam started ' the dust...' according to Genesis 3:19.
Adam went from non-life, to life, and returned back to non-life, or that Adam became a dead or lifeless soul.
Any thoughts about Ecclesiastes 3:19-20.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
In the person of Jesus Christ.
An extraordinary claim, not "I have some truth" but "I AM TRUTH." Wow!

and I find that the person of Jesus Christ knew what was religious truth because Jesus taught that religious truth is found in Scripture according to John 17:17 that God's Word (Scripture) is religious truth.
So, that knowledge (education) of Scripture leads to God and everlasting life according to John 17:3.
 
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