Jeremiahcp
Well-Known Jerk
Can we be good people without religion? Please explain.
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Can we be good people without religion?
- Thread starter Jeremiahcp
- Start date
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
1) yes
2) good upbringing
sorry to be so long-winded
2) good upbringing
sorry to be so long-winded
Yes, of course. Virtue is not a matter of superficial belief and adherence to a particular religion. There are many atheists who are much finer people than those who call themselves religious but don't practice.
But it has also been my personal observation around the non-profit I volunteer at and what I've read that religious people are statistically more likely to practice virtue.
But it has also been my personal observation around the non-profit I volunteer at and what I've read that religious people are statistically more likely to practice virtue.
1. Yes.
2. By caring.
Sorry to be so long winded.
2. By caring.
Sorry to be so long winded.
A) Yes.
2) Morals.
Sorry to be so long winded.
2) Morals.
Sorry to be so long winded.
I'll try to keep this as long-winded as I can. The question in the OP reminds me of the time I was learning to tie my own shoelaces when I was yet...blah blah blah blah blah blah which is why I was speaking to the Governor in the first place...blah blah blah blah blah...and then she said to me, "A divorce! You want a..." blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah blah burp blah blah blah blah...so if Einstein was right, and I'm interpreting relativity correctly, my ego really is the Prime Mover in the universe....blah blah blah blah blah blah belch blah blah blah blah blah blah....What was the question again?
By the way, I apologize for being so short.
By the way, I apologize for being so short.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
Demonstrably, given there are loads of people who aren’t religious and at least some of them are good people (as much as religious people anyway – there’s the question of how you define good and where you draw the line). There are also people who either were religious but stop for some reason or aren’t religious but later join one without any significant change in their fundamental “goodness” as a result of the process.
I think I'm a pretty good person.
People can be good without Religion
I am not sure if society could exist (be good for people) without religion.
HonestJoe
Well-Known Member
I don’t see why not. I can understand the point but I don’t see why a society can’t establish a shared set of guiding rules and principles without it being specifically religious. There are already plenty of societies with secular based governments over populations with a wide range of often contradictory religious beliefs as well as none at all.
Altfish
Veteran Member
There's not a lot wrong with the Scandinavian countries where religious belief is very low. Certainly if you compare prison populations, divorce rates, etc they are better than religious countries like the US.
Sure.
By receiving the gifts of moral courage and wisdom from our social environment, or by developing them on our own.
People who make a point of being perceived as religious do not seem to me to typically be any better than those who have no religion. To a degree that is to be expected - you don't go to a hospital to find healthy people either - but I think that is mainly because many nominal religions are in practice more like excusers or even enablers of moral vice. Many people seem to confuse belief for virtue, for everyone's loss.
And I am not sorry for being so long-winded. Deal with it.
By receiving the gifts of moral courage and wisdom from our social environment, or by developing them on our own.
People who make a point of being perceived as religious do not seem to me to typically be any better than those who have no religion. To a degree that is to be expected - you don't go to a hospital to find healthy people either - but I think that is mainly because many nominal religions are in practice more like excusers or even enablers of moral vice. Many people seem to confuse belief for virtue, for everyone's loss.
And I am not sorry for being so long-winded. Deal with it.
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I have read about Scandinavian countries and I don't believe your statement is true. There is a lot wrong with them as well.
edited: They are also not void of religion, they just have a lower concentration.
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Jeremiahcp,
The short answer is NO!!!
There are two sources that we obtain religion, Natural Religion, and Revealed Religion. We can learn much from nature, but we do not learn many things about our creator, that He wants us to know.
Revealed Religion is the information that God had written down for our instruction, Romans 15:4-6.
There is a term; Egocentric Preficament, which means that we know so little, that we really cannot reason within our own minds and reach a conclusion that is better than what the Bible plainly tells us, Isaiah 55:8,9, 1Corinthians 3:18-20. Man cannot direct his steps in the right way, because man does not know what will happen in the days ahead, Jeremiah 10:23. People many times pick the wrong choice that seems right, Proverbs 16:25. God knows what is the best choice, because He knows what a wrong course will bring. God wants the very best for the people who love Him, Proverb 3:5,6, 8:17, Psalms 25:8-10, 32:8,9. Deuteronomy 10:13, Isaiah 48:17.
The only way a person can train his conscience to be, what people call good, is to train you conscience by reading and studying God's words, Hebrews 5:13,14.
I'm not completely convinced that people can be truly good *with* religion.
You see, to do good in expectation of a reward (heaven) isn't nearly as good as to do good for goodness sake. And without religion, any good you do has to be for its own sake and not to please or obey in expectation of a reward.
Humans as a whole protect the self, family, tribe, ethnicity and then the world. How many people march because they are proud to be human? If the world lost a religious belief atheism would just become human. No one would march because of atheism. We need a world group that links ethnicity, tribes, families and self's so even though I hate German Nazi's I can still like German Christians etc. Because of individuality we need more than one world group. No single world group can contain the totality of human kind.
Without the true religion, a person can be moral but not attain to what the true God considers good. Attempting to usurp the right to decide what is good and bad landed us in the mess we are in, IMO. (Genesis 3:5) "There is a way that seems right to a man,But in the end it leads to death." (Proverbs 14:12) I believe only God has the right to decide what is good or not good; only those persons who adhere to his standards can be considered "good" in God's estimation.