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How are these Great Beings explained?

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
I'll be the first to put up my hand. I've probably offended a dozen people a dozen times but not intentionally just through unwisdom. I'm learning but I'm trying to be better.

My intention is never to alienate anyone so I'll just keep trying but thanks everyone for putting up with me. I agree I can be a pain.
Unfortunately, religions do have different beliefs. Some people belong to religious groups that dogmatically hold to their beliefs as being better or even the only true beliefs. What is difficult for Baha's is that on one hand they believe all religions are one, but on the other, they say that the beliefs of all the other religions has lost its original message. So, for me, that is like saying that Baha'is beliefs all other religions are wrong.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
That is just such an accurate observation of Bahai in the 70's!
I knew Bahais who I would now describe as being like Universal Unitarians.
Layed back. Adopting any beautiful or peaceful doctrines.
So in the 70's they belonged to the Baha'i Faith and left?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Does every Baha'i agree with every law in the Baha'i Faith? Do they even know all the laws? Do they uphold all the laws or bend a few in private?

If you do not mind, I can give an answer. My journey covers all this.

Little by little day by day youlive life in knowledge of or in ignorance of Gods Laws.

If ignorant of the laws I have found that many choices in life are given so you can find the Law and then consider to live that way.

If you find the Law, know of it, but are still too weak in self ot implement it, then the path you take is in the transgresion. You are tested with the good of this world.

This path takes time to rectify, it may be many years before the wisdom of the law becomes apparent and the error noted.

If you see a law and implement it immediatly confident of the wisdom, then I have found it rarely enters your thought or life and temptation against it becomes a low probability.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Christians obviously DON'T know the true intent of Torah. They can't even get the texts right.

If the Jews are YHVH's special people, - obviously they do not need Christianity and Jesus, or the Baha'i religion.

Choice? The choice stuff is made up by Christians, and again, - has nothing to do with the Jewish faith.

It is YOU - other newer religions, - that made up the idea that the Jews "missed" accepting God's covenant. I don't see how that works in your minds, when supposedly they made the covenant in the first place.

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You know Baha'is talk about personally investigating truth, but when I did, I didn't believe the way Baha'is say they fulfilled Bible prophecy. Then, I checked out Christianity, and same thing. I saw a lot of vague and out of context quotes that were supposedly prophecies about Jesus. But what's up with Christianity using the Jewish Bible to show Jesus is God, and then Baha'is using their writings and the Bible to show he isn't. On top of all that Baha'is use the Bible to show how Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah was prophesied. Same thing... vague and out of context quotes.
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
They were "temporary measures"? They were evil and not of any God.

Qur'an (7:80-84) - "...For ye practice your lusts on men in preference to women: ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds.... And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone)"

and Hadiths -

Abu Dawud (4462) - The Messenger of Allah (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said, "Whoever you find doing the action of the people of Loot, execute the one who does it and the one to whom it is done.".

Abu Dawud (4448) - "If a man who is not married is seized committing sodomy, he will be stoned to death."

al-Tirmidhi, Sunan 1:152 - [Muhammad said] "Whoever is found conducting himself in the manner of the people of Lot, kill the doer and the receiver."

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Did God's Law stop the behavior? Did killing homosexuals as decreed by God's Law stop the behavior? So since that didn't work God is taking a more lenient approach?
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
They know the laws, it is up to them to implement them in their lives.

Christ gives great advice on these matters.

Before removing a splinter from someones eye, remove the plank from ones own eye first.

Consider once we accept the Laws given by Baha'u'llah, the effort to live them begins. In this law, consider how different it is from current trends and peoples thoughts. We are toldtoconsider that once you accept, do you think you will be left alone and held not put to test against that beleif!

Regards Tony
Jesus had some other comment that is pertinent. He said anyone who looks at a woman with lust in his heart has already committed adultery with her in his heart. I doubt if there are very many people that can live up to that standard. But, I have seen so many, mostly Christians, struggle with horrible guilt for having sexual thoughts.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
On top of all that Baha'is use the Bible to show how Muhammad, The Bab and Baha'u'llah was prophesied. Same thing... vague and out of context quotes

Whereas when I read the book Thief in the Night by William Sears about Prophecy it made wonderful amazing and logical sense.

Thus history is repeated.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
If you do not mind, I can give an answer. My journey covers all this.

Little by little day by day youlive life in knowledge of or in ignorance of Gods Laws.

If ignorant of the laws I have found that many choices in life are given so you can find the Law and then consider to live that way.

If you find the Law, know of it, but are still too weak in self ot implement it, then the path you take is in the transgresion. You are tested with the good of this world.

This path takes time to rectify, it may be many years before the wisdom of the law becomes apparent and the error noted.

If you see a law and implement it immediatly confident of the wisdom, then I have found it rarely enters your thought or life and temptation against it becomes a low probability.

Regards Tony
The weakness of all this in Christianity is that people find a level of commitment and stop trying to grow to a higher level of spirituality. Sadly, that commitment is mostly going to Church once a week. I know there are inactive Baha'is, but what about Baha'is that are just going through the motions and not doing much to spread the Faith or grow in the Faith? They become complacent.
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Jesus had some other comment that is pertinent. He said anyone who looks at a woman with lust in his heart has already committed adultery with her in his heart. I doubt if there are very many people that can live up to that standard. But, I have seen so many, mostly Christians, struggle with horrible guilt for having sexual thoughts.

Baha'u'llah has also said the same thing, that a race of men will arise that will not look at women in any way with those thoughts.

Little by little day by day. One day we will look for the Spirit within, the real beauty.

Those thoughts can be changed, but not so easily in a world without modesty.

Regards Tony
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Whereas when I read the book Thief in the Night by William Sears about Prophecy it made wonderful amazing and logical sense.

Thus history is repeated.

Regards Tony
Maybe you can help me then, one Baha'i quoted an explanation of the Beast and Anti-Christ from Revelation. It was saying it was some evil Islamic leaders. Can you explain how that fits into the prophecies of the Book of Revelation?
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The weakness of all this in Christianity is that people find a level of commitment and stop trying to grow to a higher level of spirituality. Sadly, that commitment is mostly going to Church once a week. I know there are inactive Baha'is, but what about Baha'is that are just going through the motions and not doing much to spread the Faith or grow in the Faith? They become complacent.

We are told stagnant beleif is to be avoided.

That is why Abdul'bahahas guided us to try Little by Little day by day. In this way the change is permanent and not a flash inthe pan.

You work at the good, slip, grab hild.and start climbing again.

Life is about the effort and not any station. We are told ro just keep trying.

Nature is our teacher, the fish swimming up river to fulfill its goal is the thought in this matter. All nature is a spiritual lesson.

Regards Tony
 

TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Maybe you can help me then, one Baha'i quoted an explanation of the Beast and Anti-Christ from Revelation. It was saying it was some evil Islamic leaders. Can you explain how that fits into the prophecies of the Book of Revelation?

Abdul'baha has explained this question.

Search Beast at this link - Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 45-61

The whole chapter is worth the read.

The Number of thebeast, in this case we are informed, is the year 666.

Regards Tony
 
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Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
They know the laws, it is up to them to implement them in their lives.

Christ gives great advice on these matters.

Before removing a splinter from someones eye, remove the plank from ones own eye first.

Consider once we accept the Laws given by Baha'u'llah, the effort to live them begins. In this law, consider how different it is from current trends and peoples thoughts. We are toldtoconsider that once you accept, do you think you will be left alone and held not put to test against that beleif!

Regards Tony

There are only maybe four verses ascribed to Jesus that mentions sex law.

Matthew 5:31-32 "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

Matthew 5:27-28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

John 4:16-18 "Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

John 8:1-11 The women caught in adultery verse - is apparently a later forgery as it is not found in early copies.

"This passage is apparently a forgery that was not written by the author(s) of the gospel of John. It was written by an anonymous individual and later inserted after chapter 7 by an anonymous editor. The New International Version of the Bible has a footnote at this point stating: "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53 - 8:11."

He said nothing against Gay people.

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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
So in the 70's they belonged to the Baha'i Faith and left?
I don't know what happened to them.
One other, who was extremely interested in promoting the Faith through the local press (which he worked within) and being part of the LSA, 'came out' as Gay and was deeply shocked to discover that the Faith did not support his sexuality. He left the area and I never heard of him again.
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Did God's Law stop the behavior? Did killing homosexuals as decreed by God's Law stop the behavior? So since that didn't work God is taking a more lenient approach?

I think you misunderstood me on that one.

I'm saying those laws against homosexuals are evil, and NOT from any God.

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Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
In bahai view, is heterosexuality a sexual orientation or an action?

Another unrelated question. In bahai, does god condemn gay people from having sex within marriage? (This isnt an face value question)
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
He said nothing against Gay people.

The Law of God is for a union of Man and Woman, the consequence of not seeing and obeying Gods Laws is recorded in the Bible, this verse is clear on this matter;

Romans 1:26-28King James Version (KJV)
"26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet. 28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;"

I will leave this subject there, in the end each person is to make their choices with what life gives them.

Regards Tony
 

Ingledsva

HEATHEN ALASKAN
Abdul'baha has explained this question.

Search Beast at this link - Bahá'í Reference Library - Some Answered Questions, Pages 45-61

The whole chapter is worth the read.

The Number of thebeast, in this case we are informed, is the year 666.

Regards Tony

I stopped reading that right away, - as it has Tanakh information backward.

Your Baha'i site says, -- "In the beginning of the seventh century after Christ, when Jerusalem was conquered, the Holy of Holies was outwardly preserved—that is to say, the house which Solomon built; but outside the Holy of Holies the outer court was taken and given to the Gentiles. “And the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months”—that is to say, the Gentiles shall govern and control Jerusalem forty and two months, signifying twelve hundred and sixty days; and as each day signifies a year, by this reckoning it becomes twelve hundred and sixty years, which is the duration of the cycle of the Qur’án. For in the texts of the Holy Book, each day is a year; as it is said in the fourth chapter of Ezekiel, verse 6: “Thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.”

They are not saying in Ezekiel that one day in the holy book equals a year.

In reality - they are paying for the past years of error, - with one day of penance per error year.

Eze 2:3 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, even unto this very day.

Eze 4:4 Lie thou also upon thy left side, and lay the iniquity of the house of Israel upon it: according to the number of the days that thou shalt lie upon it thou shalt bear their iniquity.

Eze 4:5 For I have laid upon thee the years of their iniquity, according to the number of the days, three hundred and ninety days: so shalt thou bear the iniquity of the house of Israel.

Eze 4:6 And when thou hast accomplished them, lie again on thy right side, and thou shalt bear the iniquity of the house of Judah forty days: I have appointed thee each day for a year.

In other words he is doing penance for 390 YEARS of inequity of the House of Israel by lying for 390 DAYS, then flipping over and doing penance for the 40 YEARS of inequity of Judah by lying for 40 DAYS.

It is not saying as the site suggests - that every mentioned day in the holy book means a year.

But they run with that error and claim thus - "This prophesies the duration of the Dispensation of Islám when Jerusalem was trodden under foot, which means that it lost its glory—but the Holy of Holies was preserved, guarded and respected—until the year 1260. This twelve hundred and sixty years is a prophecy of the manifestation of the Báb, the “Gate” of Bahá’u’lláh,..."

Matthew Henry's Commentary On the Whole Bible - "...when the prophet lies so many days on his side, he bears the guilt of that iniquity which the house of Israel, the ten tribes, had borne 390 years, reckoning from their first apostasy under Jeroboam to the destruction of Jerusalem, which completed the ruin of those small remains of them that had incorporated with Judah. He is then to lie forty days upon his right side, and so long to bear the iniquity of the house of Judah, the kingdom of the two tribes, because the measure-filling sins of that people were those which they were guilty of during the last forty years before their captivity, since the thirteenth year of Josiah, when Jeremiah began to prophesy (Jer_1:1, Jer_1:2), or, as some reckon it, since the eighteenth, when the book of the law was found and the people renewed their covenant with God...."

So - no prophecy to Bab and Bahá’u’lláh.

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oldbadger

Skanky Old Mongrel!
There are only maybe four verses ascribed to Jesus that mentions sex law.

Matthew 5:31-32 "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

Matthew 5:27-28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

John 4:16-18 "Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

John 8:1-11 The women caught in adultery verse - is apparently a later forgery as it is not found in early copies.

"This passage is apparently a forgery that was not written by the author(s) of the gospel of John. It was written by an anonymous individual and later inserted after chapter 7 by an anonymous editor. The New International Version of the Bible has a footnote at this point stating: "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53 - 8:11."

He said nothing against Gay people.

*

Very good.
On the side,
There are only maybe four verses ascribed to Jesus that mentions sex law.

Matthew 5:31-32 "It hath been said, Whosoever shall put away his wife, let him give her a writing of divorcement: But I say unto you, That whosoever shall put away his wife, saving for the cause of fornication, causeth her to commit adultery: and whosoever shall marry her that is divorced committeth adultery."

Matthew 5:27-28 "Ye have heard that it was said by them of old time, Thou shalt not commit adultery: But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart."

John 4:16-18 "Jesus saith unto her, Go, call thy husband, and come hither. The woman answered and said, I have no husband. Jesus said unto her, Thou hast well said, I have no husband: For thou hast had five husbands; and he whom thou now hast is not thy husband: in that saidst thou truly."

John 8:1-11 The women caught in adultery verse - is apparently a later forgery as it is not found in early copies.

"This passage is apparently a forgery that was not written by the author(s) of the gospel of John. It was written by an anonymous individual and later inserted after chapter 7 by an anonymous editor. The New International Version of the Bible has a footnote at this point stating: "The earliest and most reliable manuscripts and other ancient witnesses do not have John 7:53 - 8:11."

He said nothing against Gay people.

*

Yep.
Plus:-
Both Jesus and Paul supported genderlessness both physically and spiritually.

The absence of any laws about women in love is interesting, and the only reasons that I can perceive against (closed) gay-marriage was that Moses Laws required couples to pair and increase the people.

All couples needed to be 'closed' to protect against sickness sweeping throught the people. The shellfish laws (and many others) were just as important as the sex laws.

Thus, because we do not require peoples to increase there does not seem to be ANY reason why closed SSM should not be absolutely acceptable. When I write 'closed' I mean a secure relationship....... so many hetro- and homo- marriages seem to become polyamorous or polygamous.
 
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