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Was Jesus Tempted by Lust

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
If Jesus wanted all the kingdoms of the world, he just had to ask his dad. He wouldn't bother to truck with some underling his dad had created.
Has to do with being tempted in all ways just as we are. Relating to mankind.
 

SalixIncendium

अग्निविलोवनन्दः
Staff member
Premium Member
I was expecting a great revelation from you, most venerable one. How disappointing.

Why would I offer one to you? You would simply cover your ears while yelling that your Bible and God don't teach that, and dismiss it. I have no inclination to debate someone that resorts to logical fallacies with nearly every post.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Why would I offer one to you? You would simply cover your ears while yelling that your Bible and God don't teach that, and dismiss it. I have no inclination to debate someone that resorts to logical fallacies with nearly every post.

Indeed. Yet you speak to me as one who knows many things. What do you know of value?
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
It's not the definition of "love dearly" that's the issue, it's your asinine insinuation that this love is homoerotic.
Whoa there! Settle down a bit. Never said a thing about homoeroticism. Only that I thought that Jesus had homosexual feelings for the "follower Jesus loved very much." Whether these rose to homoeroticism can only be speculated.

And, of course, you're compelled to invalidate Strong's use of "to love dearly" in describing the use of "agape" in the scriptures I quoted. It too easily leaves open the possibility of eros love, something you obviously could never, never admit to or even speculate about.

Connotations of sexual affection contradict the meaning of agape.
Not necessarily--- like it or not, Strong's use of "to love dearly" leaves the door open.

You can't just hamfist your own unique connotations against the accepted meaning of a word and pretend that you're credible.
Over-wrought responses like this only make you look desperate, which is becoming more evident with each post you make here. And, we both know my "connotations" were decently reasoned, even if you don't agree with them. . . . .or maybe you don't know. :shrug:

Also note that the Greeks had a specific word for sexual affection, a point you keep ignoring.
Because I don't consider it a salient point. Considering the Old Testament's denunciation of homosexuality it's obvious, to me anyway, the writers of the Bible could never come right out and say that Jesus had homosexual feelings for "the disciple whom he loved," by using words like "eros." So they pussyfooted around it by using euphemisms:

"follower Jesus loved very much."
"disciple whom he loved"
"the one whom Jesus loved"​

As I said before;

This was one person Jesus had singled out for a different kind of love than the love he had for the other eleven disciples. A very important love to Jesus. Why else mention it, and mention it four times?

Of course you dutifully ignored my question. No surprise.

Do you honestly think that if the text could at all reasonably be taken to insinuate what you are claiming that it would have been accepted as scripture by Church leaders who actually spoke the Greek in question?
Nope, which is why the writers choose to use the euphemisms they did.

If you are confident agape can have a connotation of sexual affection, why don't you quote some Greek literature where it has such a meaning?
But, dear Musing Bassist, it's much more than just the word [which see below]. It's also the writers' insistence in showing that for Jesus one of his disciples merited a special love. A love so special and important they believed it was worth mentioning 5 times.

Translation: I'm going to insinuate and you'll just have to take my word for it. The problem with this argument is that unlike the English phrase of "love very much" agape, or agapao for the verb is defined in contrast to love with sexual affection. Agape is platonic by definition.
Not the way it's used in the scripture I quoted according to Strongs AND your own source, which said this usage is used only five times in the Bible. So, being a unique use of "agape," you can stop going on and on about its common meaning.

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idav

Being
Premium Member
Has to do with being tempted in all ways just as we are. Relating to mankind.
How is that even a temptation? If Jesus has god power, some petty angel offering is not tempting. Humans are tempted cause we don't have god powers. Which leads back to how Jesus can be tempted by lust as much as a regular human sinner.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
Whoa there! Settle down a bit. Never said a thing about homoeroticism. Only the likelihood that Jesus had homosexual feelings for the "follower Jesus loved very much." Whether these rose to homoeroticism can only be speculated at.

And, of course, you're compelled to invalidate Strong's use of "to love dearly" in describing the use of "agape" in the scriptures I quoted. It too easily leaves open the possibility of eros love, something you obviously could never, never admit to or even speculate about.

Not necessarily--- like it or not, Strong's use of "to love dearly" leaves the door open.


Over-wrought responses like this only make you look desperate, which is becoming more evident with each post you make here. And, we both know my "connotations" were decently reasoned, even if you don't agree with them. . . . .or maybe you don't know. :shrug:


Because I don't consider it a salient point. Considering the Old Testament's denunciation of homosexuality it's obvious, to me anyway, the writers of the Bible could never come right out and say that Jesus had homosexual feelings for "the disciple whom he loved," by using words like "eros." So they pussyfooted around it by using euphemisms:

"follower Jesus loved very much."
"disciple whom he loved"
"the one whom Jesus loved"​

As I said before;

This was one person Jesus had singled out for a different kind of love than the love he had for the other eleven disciples. A very important love to Jesus. Why else mention it, and mention it four times?

Of course you dutifully ignored my question. No surprise.


Nope, which is why the writers choose to use euphemisms they did.


But, dear Musing Bassist, it's much more than just the word [which see below]. It's also the writers' insistence in showing that for Jesus one of his disciples merited a special love: "the one whom Jesus loved." A love so special and important they believed it was worth mentioning 4 times.


Not the way it's used in the scripture I quoted according to Strongs AND your own source, which said this usage is used only five times in the Bible. So, being a unique use of "agape," you can stop going on and on about its common meaning.

.
Looks like it was mentioned six times and some theories suggest the disciple Jesus loved could have been Mary Magdeline but apparently that is a bit more difficult to prove without losing biblical consistency.
Disciple whom Jesus loved - Wikipedia
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
Looks like it was mentioned six times and some theories suggest the disciple Jesus loved could have been Mary Magdeline but apparently that is a bit more difficult to prove without losing biblical consistency.
Disciple whom Jesus loved - Wikipedia
Interesting that in looking into the "six"times mentioned only five instances are cited. I did miss John 20:2:

John 20:2
2 So she ran to Simon Peter and the other follower (the one Jesus loved very much). She said, “They have taken the Lord out of the tomb, and we don’t know where they put him.”


John 13:23
23One of his disciples—the one whom Jesus loved—was reclining next to him;

John 19:26

26When Jesus saw his mother and the disciple whom he loved standing beside her, he said to his mother, “Woman, here is your son.”

John 21:7

7The follower Jesus loved very much said to Peter, “That man is the Lord!” When Peter heard him say it was the Lord, he wrapped his coat around himself (for he was naked). Then he jumped into the water.

John 21:20
20 Peter turned and saw the follower Jesus loved very much walking behind them. (This was the follower who had leaned against Jesus at the supper and said, “Lord, who is it that will hand you over?”)

Obviously, Jesus really loved this guy.

.
 

Skwim

Veteran Member
See John 11:3
which specifically mentions a "he".

"Therefore his sisters sent unto him, saying, Lord, behold, he whom thou lovest is sick."
Again, interesting. However, there's no mention of Lazarus, the "he" mentioned in John 11:3 being a disciple.

According to THIS source the 12 disciples of Jesus were

Peter
James
John
Andrew
Bartholomew or Nathanael
James, the Lesser or Younger
Judas
Jude or Thaddeus
Matthew or Levi
Philip
Simon the Zealot
Thomas​

This is odd situation can probably be explained by the fact that the use of "love" in John 11:3 comes from s φιλέω, phileō. Whereas the "love" used in the other John passages is ἀγαπάω, agapaō.

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