Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus?

Muslim-UK said:

What's that got to do with the Religion? People kill and murder for power and wealth. We see with groups like isis, they kill thousands of Muslims and smuggle oil and other goods for profit.

Ok fine no problem, Jesus pbuh was warning about future Prophets. You have yet to prove Muhammad pbuh was such a false prophet.

Bot Jesus pbuh and Muhammad pbuh taught the same message, both came to change some of the restrictive Torah Commandments and both said, worship GOD alone, and do good works amongst other things. Saul, who you as a Pauline Christian follow, did away with the Law and pinned salvation to the empty cross.

Who was present when God addressed the people in Deut 18:18?

Remember God was to put His 'words into the mouth' of that Prophet and he would only speak what he heard. Jesus pbuh was 100% God according to you, so wouldn't need God to tell him what to say. Indeed Jesus pbuh says a Prophet would come after him, and God would put His 'words into his mouth', i.e Deut 18:18

And no it can not be the Holy Spirit Gabriel, as He pbuh was already present.

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God was speaking to Moses and Israel.that God would rise up a Prophet like Moses to speak to Israel.
This being Jesus.Deut 18:28

When Jesus said there will come false prophets that was future.
The q'uran tells that Muhammad was born and lived in the desert.
There has not been any Prophet's that lived in the desert like Muhammad. then the only prophet that Jesus could be talking about is muhammad, since muhammad is only one who lived in the desert.

Faithofchristian said:

God was speaking to Moses and Israel.that God would rise up a Prophet like Moses to speak to Israel.
This being Jesus.Deut 18:28

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Then why not say, a prophet from your descendants, your offspring, your seed. Why use the word Brethren, which includes their relations from Abraham pbuh who had several wives.

As already shown that Prophet was to have God's words put into his mouth. When the people asked John the Baptist about Jesus pbuh he said, he was not Elijah, the Messiah or that Prophet Deut 18:18.

The late Reverend James L. Dow (1908-1977) who authored the Collins Gem Dictionary of the Bible wrote under the entry of 'Moses':

"The only man in history who can be compared even remotely to him is Mohammed."

Faithofchristian said:

When Jesus said there will come false prophets that was future.
The q'uran tells that Muhammad was born and lived in the desert.
There has not been any Prophet's that lived in the desert like Muhammad. then the only prophet that Jesus could be talking about is muhammad, since muhammad is only one who lived in the desert.

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Well I've already shown Saul came from the Desert and was found in a locked room. He came in the name of Christ and mislead many. The family and Disciples of Jesus pbuh considered him to be a liar, a great deceiver. He is likely the false Prophet mentioned in Rev 2:2. Due to his hijacking of Christianity and later developments, Trinity, the Jews are forbidden to enter a Church, but allowed to not only enter, but also pray in a Mosque. Many Prophets came from the Desert, Moses and Aaron pbut to name but two.

Here's what Jesus pbuh said according to you:

Isaiah 21:7
Knox Bible (KNOX)
7 A chariot he saw, with two out-riders (chariots), one that rode on an *** (singular), and one that rode on a camel (singular); looked long at them, watching them eagerly.

NOTE: A Chariot master is a Servant of GOD who is SENT BY GOD ALMIGHTY in the Bible: 1 Chronicles 28:18.

Christ fulfilled the riding of the *** or donkey vision, when he entered Jerusalem on an ***, in John 12:14.

Also, “looked long at them, watching them eagerly.” clearly means that these are two very important Servants.

8 And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:

9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he (Muhammad, Islam) hath broken unto the ground.
…….
13 The burden upon Arabia….


Babylon did indeed fall before Islam and the Islamic nation under the guidance of Muhammad (peace be upon him) did indeed succeed in eradicating the worship of idols from Babylon replacing it with the worship of God alone. In fact, the Muslims were the only believers in the God of Isaiah to ever succeed in fulfilling this prophesy.

As to "The burden upon Arabia ..." (Isaiah 21:13), what does it mean?

"…which also means an oracle is a word sometimes used in the prophetical writings to indicate a divine message of judgment" (Scofield Study Bible New King James Version, note 1, p. 792)


The pagan religions of Arabia had all originated from Babel. Pagan Arabia is called the Daughter of Babylon: Isaiah 47:1.

So “Babylon is fallen, is fallen” clearly refers to the fall of ALL OF THE IDOLS AND PAGAN RELIGIONS in all of the Arabic and Arabian lands.

In fact, Isaiah 47:1 and Jeremiah 51:33, give a mighty prophecy against the pagan religions of Arabia, and prophesied about its end, and replacement with a NEW DIVINE RELIGION.

Let’s read the two verses:

Isaiah 47:1
Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

Now why was Arabia called VIRGIN DAUGHTER OF BABYLON? Because the Arabs as I mentioned were fresh, and had no previous scriptures, nor religions. Arabia was a virgin in that. It had no previous religion, and it was ready for a Divine Religion to be sent to it, which is Islam! Allah Almighty Said in the Holy Quran:

[034:043] When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, they say, "This is only a man who wishes to hinder you from the (worship) which your fathers practised." And they say, "This is only a falsehood invented!" and the Unbelievers say of the Truth when it comes to them, "This is nothing but evident magic!"

[034:044] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent apostles to them before thee as Warners.


Furthermore, we read in Jeremiah 51:33:

Jeremiah 51:33
For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.

Arabia’s harvest is indeed the Divine Religion, Islam. GOD Almighty’s Original Faith on Earth, and the Religion of the people of KEDAR is Islam. Muhammad pbuh was the Servant of GOD Almighty to come, that was mentioned in Isaiah 41 & 42.

Muslim-UK said:

Then why not say, a prophet from your descendants, your offspring, your seed. Why use the word Brethren, which includes their relations from Abraham pbuh who had several wives.

As already shown that Prophet was to have God's words put into his mouth. When the people asked John the Baptist about Jesus pbuh he said, he was not Elijah, the Messiah or that Prophet Deut 18:18.

The late Reverend James L. Dow (1908-1977) who authored the Collins Gem Dictionary of the Bible wrote under the entry of 'Moses':

"The only man in history who can be compared even remotely to him is Mohammed."

Well I've already shown Saul came from the Desert and was found in a locked room. He came in the name of Christ and mislead many. The family and Disciples of Jesus pbuh considered him to be a liar, a great deceiver. He is likely the false Prophet mentioned in Rev 2:2. Due to his hijacking of Christianity and later developments, Trinity, the Jews are forbidden to enter a Church, but allowed to not only enter, but also pray in a Mosque. Many Prophets came from the Desert, Moses and Aaron pbut to name but two.

Here's what Jesus pbuh said according to you:

Isaiah 21:7
Knox Bible (KNOX)
7 A chariot he saw, with two out-riders (chariots), one that rode on an *** (singular), and one that rode on a camel (singular); looked long at them, watching them eagerly.

NOTE: A Chariot master is a Servant of GOD who is SENT BY GOD ALMIGHTY in the Bible: 1 Chronicles 28:18.

Christ fulfilled the riding of the *** or donkey vision, when he entered Jerusalem on an ***, in John 12:14.

Also, “looked long at them, watching them eagerly.” clearly means that these are two very important Servants.

8 And he cried, A lion: My lord, I stand continually upon the watchtower in the daytime, and I am set in my ward whole nights:

9 And, behold, here cometh a chariot of men, with a couple of horsemen. And he answered and said, Babylon is fallen, is fallen; and all the graven images of her gods he (Muhammad, Islam) hath broken unto the ground.
…….
13 The burden upon Arabia….


Babylon did indeed fall before Islam and the Islamic nation under the guidance of Muhammad (peace be upon him) did indeed succeed in eradicating the worship of idols from Babylon replacing it with the worship of God alone. In fact, the Muslims were the only believers in the God of Isaiah to ever succeed in fulfilling this prophesy.

As to "The burden upon Arabia ..." (Isaiah 21:13), what does it mean?

"…which also means an oracle is a word sometimes used in the prophetical writings to indicate a divine message of judgment" (Scofield Study Bible New King James Version, note 1, p. 792)


The pagan religions of Arabia had all originated from Babel. Pagan Arabia is called the Daughter of Babylon: Isaiah 47:1.

So “Babylon is fallen, is fallen” clearly refers to the fall of ALL OF THE IDOLS AND PAGAN RELIGIONS in all of the Arabic and Arabian lands.

In fact, Isaiah 47:1 and Jeremiah 51:33, give a mighty prophecy against the pagan religions of Arabia, and prophesied about its end, and replacement with a NEW DIVINE RELIGION.

Let’s read the two verses:

Isaiah 47:1
Come down, and sit in the dust, O virgin daughter of Babylon, sit on the ground: there is no throne, O daughter of the Chaldeans: for thou shalt no more be called tender and delicate.

Now why was Arabia called VIRGIN DAUGHTER OF BABYLON? Because the Arabs as I mentioned were fresh, and had no previous scriptures, nor religions. Arabia was a virgin in that. It had no previous religion, and it was ready for a Divine Religion to be sent to it, which is Islam! Allah Almighty Said in the Holy Quran:

[034:043] When Our Clear Signs are rehearsed to them, they say, "This is only a man who wishes to hinder you from the (worship) which your fathers practised." And they say, "This is only a falsehood invented!" and the Unbelievers say of the Truth when it comes to them, "This is nothing but evident magic!"

[034:044] But We had not given them Books which they could study, nor sent apostles to them before thee as Warners.


Furthermore, we read in Jeremiah 51:33:

Jeremiah 51:33
For thus saith the Lord of hosts, the God of Israel; The daughter of Babylon is like a threshingfloor, it is time to thresh her: yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.

Arabia’s harvest is indeed the Divine Religion, Islam. GOD Almighty’s Original Faith on Earth, and the Religion of the people of KEDAR is Islam. Muhammad pbuh was the Servant of GOD Almighty to come, that was mentioned in Isaiah 41 & 42.

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You have no idea what Prophet Jeremiah 51:33, is about You believe that is Arabia's harvest.
That is not good harvest, that is a very bad harvest,not good.
The Lord God, said The daughter of Babylon is like a threshing floor, it is time to thresh her, yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come.

Look it is time to thresh her, this being she will be destroyed in the lake the burns with fire.that is not a good harvest, very bad harvest.
Yet a little while, and the time of her harvest shall come. That is not good harvest, that is very bad harvest.

Her harvest and her will be destroy in the lake that burns with fire.

Look Jeremiah 51:6 Flee out of the midst of Babylon, and deliver every man his soul, be not cut off in her Lawlessness. For this is the time of the Lord's vengeance, He will render into her a repayment.
Verse 8 Babylon is suddenly fallen and destroyed.
You see Babylon is destroyed, that is not good harvest. very bad harvest.

The Almighty God most gracious most merciful, is going to destroy her and all those taken in her harvest to be cast into the lake that burns with fire.

Jeremiah 51:28 Prepare against her the nations with the kings of the Meds, the captains, and all the rules thereof, and the land of his Dominion and the land shall tremble and sorrow, for every purpose of the Lord shall be performed against Babylon.to make the land of Babylon a desolation without an inhabitant.

You see Babylon harvest not good, the Lord is going to destroy Babylon with all inhabitants.
That is very bad harvest not good.

So now it sounds like you're saying God is going to commit genocide of all Muslims, absolutely ridiculous and slanderous nonsense.

Lyndon said:

So now it sounds like you're saying God is going to commit genocide of all Muslims, absolutely ridiculous and slanderous nonsense.

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No that is not what I am saying, what I am saying is that harvest is Babylon and if anyone stays in that harvest God will destroy them along with Babylon.why do you suppose in Revelation 18:2,4 "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devil's and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Verse 4 and I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her my People, that you be not partakers of her sins and that you receive not of her plagues.
As you can see if anyone stays in Babylon will be destroyed with her ( Babylon )

If any Muslims comes out and not stay in Babylon they will be safe. But if they stay in Babylon then they will be destroyed at the time of her harvest when the Almighty God comes and destroys Babylon and with everyone who does not come out.

You can read what is to happen to Babylon and those who stay in Babylon
Read Revelation Chapter 18.

Revelation was written by a starving man imprisoned on an island where psychedelic mushrooms where one of the only foods, it is a series of hallucinations, complete nonsense IMHO

Lyndon said:

Revelation was written by a starving man imprisoned on an island where psychedelic mushrooms where one of the only foods, it is a series of hallucinations, complete nonsense IMHO

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So you say.your like many others criticized what you don't understand nor have any knowledge of.

Lyndon said:

Revelation was written by a starving man imprisoned on an island where psychedelic mushrooms where one of the only foods, it is a series of hallucinations, complete nonsense IMHO

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It was probably considered non canonical for the reasons you give, and as we know, kept out of the Bible for Hundreds of years.

Faithofchristian said:

No that is not what I am saying, what I am saying is that harvest is Babylon and if anyone stays in that harvest God will destroy them along with Babylon.why do you suppose in Revelation 18:2,4 "And he cried mightily with a strong voice, saying, Babylon the great is fallen, is fallen, and is become the habitation of devil's and a cage of every unclean and hateful bird.

Verse 4 and I heard another voice from heaven, saying, Come out of her my People, that you be not partakers of her sins and that you receive not of her plagues.
As you can see if anyone stays in Babylon will be destroyed with her ( Babylon )

If any Muslims comes out and not stay in Babylon they will be safe. But if they stay in Babylon then they will be destroyed at the time of her harvest when the Almighty God comes and destroys Babylon and with everyone who does not come out.

You can read what is to happen to Babylon and those who stay in Babylon
Read Revelation Chapter 18.

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In any event Babylon fell Hundreds of years after Revelation was written, and Paganism banished from the Arabian Peninsula with the advent of Islam. Remember Isaiah 42 speaks of a New Song, a New Revelation for the Gentiles. Jesus pbuh only came for the Jews and in no way endorsed the Christianity taught by Saul, John or the other anonymous Gospel writers. You have to wade through the NT to identify what Jesus pbuh actually taught: Worship God alone, keep the Commandments, some Laws are relaxed and spread the good news to the World of Jews only. Jesus pbuh warned the Disciples would be deceived if they were not careful and that's what happened when Saul turned up.

Muslim-UK said:

In any event Babylon fell Hundreds of years after Revelation was written, and Paganism banished from the Arabian Peninsula with the advent of Islam. Remember Isaiah 42 speaks of a New Song, a New Revelation for the Gentiles. Jesus pbuh only came for the Jews and in no way endorsed the Christianity taught by Saul, John or the other anonymous Gospel writers. You have to wade through the NT to identify what Jesus pbuh actually taught: Worship God alone, keep the Commandments, some Laws are relaxed and spread the good news to the World of Jews only. Jesus pbuh warned the Disciples would be deceived if they were not careful and that's what happened when Saul turned up.

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Well you have no clue what Jesus actually taught.
Babylon has not been destroyed, Babylon will be destroyed when Christ Jesus returns. Until then Babylon is very much active to day and will continue to be active in the world until Christ Jesus returns, then Babylon will be destroyed.

Muslim-UK said:

In any event Babylon fell Hundreds of years after Revelation was written, and Paganism banished from the Arabian Peninsula with the advent of Islam. Remember Isaiah 42 speaks of a New Song, a New Revelation for the Gentiles. Jesus pbuh only came for the Jews and in no way endorsed the Christianity taught by Saul, John or the other anonymous Gospel writers. You have to wade through the NT to identify what Jesus pbuh actually taught: Worship God alone, keep the Commandments, some Laws are relaxed and spread the good news to the World of Jews only. Jesus pbuh warned the Disciples would be deceived if they were not careful and that's what happened when Saul turned up.

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You say that Jesus in no way endorse christianity, There you are wrong.

After the death and resurrection of Jesus,
Many Jews of Israel started to call themselves ( The Way ) why did the Jews of Israel call themselves ( The Way )
Because many times Jesus would say, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me"
John 14:6.

In the book of Acts, you can find the Jews, Israel, were called ( The Way )
Acts 24:14-"But this I confess unto you,
That after The Way which they call heresy, So worship I the God of my fathers."

There were many of Jews who would not accept Jesus as their Messiah that was to come, So those Jews who knew by the scriptures that Jesus was the Promise Messiah, from Adam to Abraham to Issac to king Daivd to the coming Promise of Jesus Messiah fulfilled.

You say that Jesus in no way endorse christianity. You are wrong.

Look in the book of Matthew 24:4,5
Verse 4-"And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ, and shall deceive many"

You see ( Christ ) this is shortened for
Christian.( Christ = Christian )
Christians are the only people who are called by the name of Christ = Christian.

But there are many who come in the name of Christ, but they are false Christians.
These false Christians teach things that are not the teachings of Jesus Christ.

So who is the false Christians and the true Christians ?

You look at all Christians as being all the same, Which they are not all the same.

You have the false Christians who follow man's teachings and You have the True Christians who follow the teachings of Jesus their Messiah.
So not all Christians are the same.

Muslim-UK said:

In any event Babylon fell Hundreds of years after Revelation was written, and Paganism banished from the Arabian Peninsula with the advent of Islam. Remember Isaiah 42 speaks of a New Song, a New Revelation for the Gentiles. Jesus pbuh only came for the Jews and in no way endorsed the Christianity taught by Saul, John or the other anonymous Gospel writers. You have to wade through the NT to identify what Jesus pbuh actually taught: Worship God alone, keep the Commandments, some Laws are relaxed and spread the good news to the World of Jews only. Jesus pbuh warned the Disciples would be deceived if they were not careful and that's what happened when Saul turned up.

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Look that of Isaiah 42 is speaking about Jesus, to be sent to the Jews of Israel.

Notice Isaiah 42:6-" I the Lord have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand, and will keep you, and give you for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles"

Jesus Christ was called in righteousness the Promise Messiah that was to come into Israel. For a covenant of the people,Which is Israel.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the scriptures covenant to Israel the Promise Messiah.

For a light of the Gentiles, It was Paul that was chosen to take the gospel the good news to be a light to Gentils.

Isaiah 42:7-"To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house"

What does this all mean?

This means, People are not actually blind, but like walking around in a dark room, so dark they can't see, but stumble about in the darkness.
So as Paul was chosen to take the Gospel good news to the Gentiles to bring them out of their blindness.into the light of the Gospel the good news.
To bring out the prisoners from the prison.

This not an actual prison, This being People who are being held by the Falsehoods of Satan's lies.
That Paul was to take the Gospel good news to the Gentiles so they could be free out of the prison of Satan's lies which held them in darkness.

Jesus being the true light to the Gentiles, chosen Paul to be his light to the Gentiles to take the Gospel good news to the Gentiles. To bring the Gentiles out of their blindness of darkness to which Satan held them in prison of darkness so Gentiles could not see the light of the truth of Jesus Christ as the Promise Messiah to Israel and to the world as Promised to Adam to Abraham to Isaac to king David to Christ Jesus the Lord of all.

I have a question for you, what is a spirit.

Faithofchristian said:

Well you have no clue what Jesus actually taught.
Babylon has not been destroyed, Babylon will be destroyed when Christ Jesus returns. Until then Babylon is very much active to day and will continue to be active in the world until Christ Jesus returns, then Babylon will be destroyed.

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This is your interpretation, as I already showed Idol worship was banished from all Arabia and surrounding areas in the 7th Century. There is no question whatsoever of Jesus pbuh returning to in any way fight Islam. Yes he will be at war with the hypocrites, Jews, Christians, Muslims and non believers alike, but not Islam because he himself submitted to the will of GOD and is a brother in faith for Muslims.

Faithofchristian said:

You say that Jesus in no way endorse christianity, There you are wrong.

After the death and resurrection of Jesus,
Many Jews of Israel started to call themselves ( The Way ) why did the Jews of Israel call themselves ( The Way )
Because many times Jesus would say, I am the way, the truth, and the life, no man cometh unto the Father, but by me"
John 14:6.

In the book of Acts, you can find the Jews, Israel, were called ( The Way )
Acts 24:14-"But this I confess unto you,
That after The Way which they call heresy, So worship I the God of my fathers."

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The Way is Torah:
1) He is the way.
2) He is the truth.
3) He is the life.
4) No one comes to the Father except through him.

The 'Way', the 'Truth' and the 'Life' are all metaphors for Torah or being Torah observant:

I am the way. To his Disciples; the Old Testament Jew, the way was the Torah. The only way to God was through the law. Psalms 119:1 says, “Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the LAW of the LORD.” Psalms 32:8 says, “I will instruct you and show you the way to go; with My eye on you, I will give counsel.” Jesus' followers were also very familiar with Exodus 18:20”And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk and the work they must do.” For the Jews, that way was the law and the prophets. In Jewish tradition, the way to find the path to God was to study the Torah.

I am the truth. To the Torah Jew, the truth was the Torah. Psalms 119:142 says, “Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your law is truth.” Verse 151 says “You are near, Lord, and all Your commands are truth.” The Jews understood, that truth was the law and the prophets. Absolute truth could only be found in God and revealed in the Law and the Prophets. God was seen as the God of Truth, and the Torah was said to be His thoughts and the revelation of His purpose in the creation of the universe, thereby revealing absolute truth. All “truth” was to be compared against the Truth revealed in the Law and the prophets. The disciples had been taught from childhood that if something did not line up with the truth of scripture, then it was not true.

I am the life. To the Torah Jew, the life was the Torah. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Moses gives the Israelites a choice to make. They could choose life and prosperity, or they could choose death and adversity. If they chose life, they would have to walk in God's ways, and keep his Law, because God is their life. If they chose death, they were free to ignore God's ways and laws. Moses gave them this advice, choose life. For the Israelite, to follow the law was to choose life. The Torah was life. The disciples had been taught this from childhood.

No one comes to the Father except through Me. To the Old Testament Jew, the only way to God was through the Law. The Law made it possible for the Israelites to approach God. The sacrifices and rituals allowed them to present themselves before God and to be accepted by him. Those who tried to approach God without following the Law usually ended up dead, (Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10). All Israelites knew that the only way to God was through the Law.

Four radical, clear cut statements from the lips of Jesus pbuh. Remember he was very clear about the Torah:

Sermon on the Mount; Matthew 5:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now show me where Jesus pbuh taught salvation by his death on the cross or that he was part of a Triune Godhead.

Faithofchristian said:

Look that of Isaiah 42 is speaking about Jesus, to be sent to the Jews of Israel.

Notice Isaiah 42:6-" I the Lord have called you in righteousness, and will hold your hand, and will keep you, and give you for a covenant of the people, for a light of the Gentiles"

Jesus Christ was called in righteousness the Promise Messiah that was to come into Israel. For a covenant of the people,Which is Israel.
Christ Jesus fulfilled the scriptures covenant to Israel the Promise Messiah.

For a light of the Gentiles, It was Paul that was chosen to take the gospel the good news to be a light to Gentils.

Isaiah 42:7-"To open the blind eyes, to bring out the prisoners from the prison, and them that sit in darkness out of the prison house"

What does this all mean?

This means, People are not actually blind, but like walking around in a dark room, so dark they can't see, but stumble about in the darkness.
So as Paul was chosen to take the Gospel good news to the Gentiles to bring them out of their blindness.into the light of the Gospel the good news.
To bring out the prisoners from the prison.

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Isaiah 42:11 points to Kedar as the location of this special servant of God to come. We know Jesus pbuh never went to Arabia, and as for Paul, unless you can show the people of Kedar rejoicing at his appearance you'll have to consider the following showing Paul's thoughts on the Sons of Ishmael pbuh:

Tell me, you who desire to be under law, do you not hear the law? For it is written that Abraham had two sons, one by a slave and one by a free woman. But the son of the slave was born according to the flesh, the son of the free woman through promise. Now this is an allegory: these women are two covenants. One is from Mount Sinai, bearing children for slavery; she is Hagar. Now Hagar is Mount Sinai in Arabia; she corresponds to the present Jerusalem, for she is in slavery with her children. But the Jerusalem above is free, and she is our mother.

For it is written,"Rejoice, O barren one who does not bear;
break forth and shout, you who are not in travail;
for the children of the desolate one are many more
than the children of her that is married."Now we, brethren, like Isaac, are children of promise. But as at that time he who was born according to the flesh persecuted him who was born according to the Spirit, so it is now. But what does the scripture say? "Cast out the slave and her son; for the son of the slave shall not inherit with the son of the free woman."

So, brethren, we are not children of the slave but of the free woman.

Feel free to show Historical records showing the Tents of Kedar rejoicing at Paul's Gospel.

Faithofchristian said:

I have a question for you, what is a spirit.

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Two fold; one is reference to the Holy Spirit which Christians claim to have within them, giving them conviction of faith, the ability to heal etc - mostly untested claims and used to full effect by charlatans running Mega Churches off the proceeds of the poor and gullible numbering in their Millions.

The other 'Spirit' is a Prophet as mentioned by Jesus pbuh:

John (chapters 14 to 16), Jesus speaks about the coming of the “Spirit of Truth” or “Advocate” (in Greek, parakletos).

John 14:16-17 and 14:26 are clearly about the promise of the Holy Spirit: in John 14:16-17, the Advocate or Spirit of Truth is spoken of as an everlasting, invisible, abiding, inner presence; in most manuscripts, this Advocate is even directly called “the Holy Spirit” in John 14:26.

But as Jesus’ farewell discourse proceeds these titles become open to dual meaning and, in John 15:26-27 and 16:7-15, they begin to refer more to a future prophet than to the Holy Spirit.

I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their own people; I will put my words in the mouth of the prophet, who shall speak to them everything that I command.(Deut 18:18-19, NRSV)

Both Deuteronomy and the Gospel of John are reflections on specific revelations, the Torah and Gospel, and both indicate that there is more revelation to come. The Gospel of John’s language for the Spirit of Truth or Advocate is strikingly similar to Deuteronomy’s: “he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come” (John 16:13, NRSV).

I still have many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of Truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own, but will speak whatever he hears, and he will declare to you the things that are to come. He will glorify me, because he will take what is mine and declare it to you. All that the Father has is mine. For this reason I said that he will take what is mine and declare it to you. (John 16:12-15, NRSV)

In this passage, the description of the Advocate or Spirit of Truth is qualitatively different than earlier mentions. Here we see the Spirit of Truth speaking not through the disciples but to them. Earlier, in John 14:17, Jesus says that this Spirit of Truth will abide with his followers and be in them; throughout the Gospel of John the Holy Spirit is spoken of as an abiding, inner presence.

Again, in 14:26, Jesus says that the Advocate will “remind you of all that I have said to you.”

In these passages, Jesus pbuh is talking about the Holy Spirit who helps his followers understand what he has said.

Essentially, this would have been the experience of the beloved disciple, the author of the Gospel of John, who was guided by the presence of the Spirit in remembering and interpreting Jesus’ words and deeds (which he does spiritually rather than literally).

However, in John 16:12-15, Jesus is talking about a Spirit of Truth who will bring forth new revelations, who will say the “many things” that Jesus pbuh does not say because his followers “cannot bear them now.”

The clear distinction is that the Spirit of Truth in John 16 is predicted to declare new revelations not merely remind Jesus’ pbuh disciples of what he already said, as in John 14. The idea that he will “declare to you the things that are to come” is especially important because it acknowledges the uncertainty about the future that Jesus’ pbuh followers faced, given the fact that he had not returned as soon as expected.

Muslim-UK said:

This is your interpretation, as I already showed Idol worship was banished from all Arabia and surrounding areas in the 7th Century. There is no question whatsoever of Jesus pbuh returning to in any way fight Islam. Yes he will be at war with the hypocrites, Jews, Christians, Muslims and non believers alike, but not Islam because he himself submitted to the will of GOD and is a brother in faith for Muslims.



The Way is Torah:
1) He is the way.
2) He is the truth.
3) He is the life.
4) No one comes to the Father except through him.

The 'Way', the 'Truth' and the 'Life' are all metaphors for Torah or being Torah observant:

I am the way. To his Disciples; the Old Testament Jew, the way was the Torah. The only way to God was through the law. Psalms 119:1 says, “Blessed are the undefiled in the way, who walk in the LAW of the LORD.” Psalms 32:8 says, “I will instruct you and show you the way to go; with My eye on you, I will give counsel.” Jesus' followers were also very familiar with Exodus 18:20”And you shall teach them the statutes and the laws, and show them the way in which they must walk and the work they must do.” For the Jews, that way was the law and the prophets. In Jewish tradition, the way to find the path to God was to study the Torah.

I am the truth. To the Torah Jew, the truth was the Torah. Psalms 119:142 says, “Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and your law is truth.” Verse 151 says “You are near, Lord, and all Your commands are truth.” The Jews understood, that truth was the law and the prophets. Absolute truth could only be found in God and revealed in the Law and the Prophets. God was seen as the God of Truth, and the Torah was said to be His thoughts and the revelation of His purpose in the creation of the universe, thereby revealing absolute truth. All “truth” was to be compared against the Truth revealed in the Law and the prophets. The disciples had been taught from childhood that if something did not line up with the truth of scripture, then it was not true.

I am the life. To the Torah Jew, the life was the Torah. In Deuteronomy 30:11-20, Moses gives the Israelites a choice to make. They could choose life and prosperity, or they could choose death and adversity. If they chose life, they would have to walk in God's ways, and keep his Law, because God is their life. If they chose death, they were free to ignore God's ways and laws. Moses gave them this advice, choose life. For the Israelite, to follow the law was to choose life. The Torah was life. The disciples had been taught this from childhood.

No one comes to the Father except through Me. To the Old Testament Jew, the only way to God was through the Law. The Law made it possible for the Israelites to approach God. The sacrifices and rituals allowed them to present themselves before God and to be accepted by him. Those who tried to approach God without following the Law usually ended up dead, (Nadab and Abihu in Leviticus 10). All Israelites knew that the only way to God was through the Law.

Four radical, clear cut statements from the lips of Jesus pbuh. Remember he was very clear about the Torah:

Sermon on the Mount; Matthew 5:
17 “Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 For truly, I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not an iota, not a dot, will pass from the Law until all is accomplished. 19 Therefore whoever relaxes one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever does them and teaches them will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you, unless your righteousness exceeds that of the scribes and Pharisees, you will never enter the kingdom of heaven.

Now show me where Jesus pbuh taught salvation by his death on the cross or that he was part of a Triune Godhead.

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Jesus is not coming to fight against Christians who are called by his name
Christ = Christian.
Christians are the only people who are called by Jesus Christ name.

You say to show you where Jesus is part of the God head. Jesus said in
John 10:30 I and my Father are one"
This means they are one and the same.
The God head.

If I say I and my mother are one, does that mean that we are the same, identical, no, its all a matter of interpretation.

Faithofchristian said:

Jesus is not coming to fight against Christians who are called by his name
Christ = Christian.
Christians are the only people who are called by Jesus Christ name.

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There were two main groups of early Christians, those under James, the brother and first agreed upon Bishop of Jerusalem, along with the majority of other Disciples they kept the Torah and had rules for non Jews wishing to live under the Covenant. This group stayed faithful to the teachings of Jesus pbuh.

The second group lived under the Gospel taught by Paul, who is responsible for the majority writings of the New Testament. This group made a religion about Jesus pbuh, making him a god and worshipping him in grave error.

Matthew 7:21-23

21 Not everyone who says to Me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 22 Many will say to Me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ 23 Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you; depart from Me, you workers of lawlessness.’

Faithofchristian said:

You say to show you where Jesus is part of the God head. Jesus said in
John 10:30 I and my Father are one"
This means they are one and the same.
The God head.

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They are one in purpose, otherwise be consistent:

John 17:20-22
I am not asking on behalf of them alone, but also on behalf of those who will believe in Me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, as You, Father, are in Me, and I am in You. May they also be in Us, so that the world may believe that You sent Me. 22 I have given them the glory You gave Me, so that they may be one as We are one— 23 I in them and You in Me—that they may be perfectly united, so that the world may know that You sent Me and have loved them just as You have loved Me.

Are we to follow your line of logic and watch the Trinity grow to at least 15 gods?

Lyndon said:

If I say I and my mother are one, does that mean that we are the same, identical, no, its all a matter of interpretation.

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Christ Jesus and the Father are identical.

Christ Jesus in speaking to the disciples said to them, If you had known me, you should have known my Father also, and from here forward you know him, and have seen him. John 14:7

Why, because Christ Jesus is the Father, that's Why.

Philip said unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus said unto him, Have I been sleeping long time with you, and yet has you not known me, Philip he that has seen me has seen the Father, and how sayest you then, show us the Father. John 14:8-9.

When Philip is looking at Christ Jesus he is looking right at the Father.Thats why Jesus told Philip he that has seen me has seen the Father. Why because Jesus is the Father.
You see it took Philip some time to finally realized who exactly Jesus is. After Jesus kept saying to Philip, if you see me, you see the Father, me and my Father are one. I am in the Father and the Father is in me.
It finally hit Philip who exactly was standing right there before him, the Almighty God the Father.

Faithofchristian said:

Christ Jesus and the Father are identical.

Christ Jesus in speaking to the disciples said to them, If you had known me, you should have known my Father also, and from here forward you know him, and have seen him. John 14:7

Why, because Christ Jesus is the Father, that's Why.

Philip said unto him, Lord, show us the Father, and it sufficeth us. Jesus said unto him, Have I been sleeping long time with you, and yet has you not known me, Philip he that has seen me has seen the Father, and how sayest you then, show us the Father. John 14:8-9.

When Philip is looking at Christ Jesus he is looking right at the Father.Thats why Jesus told Philip he that has seen me has seen the Father. Why because Jesus is the Father.
You see it took Philip some time to finally realized who exactly Jesus is. After Jesus kept saying to Philip, if you see me, you see the Father, me and my Father are one. I am in the Father and the Father is in me.
It finally hit Philip who exactly was standing right there before him, the Almighty God the Father.

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Every Prophet that came was God's representative, see them, you see the father, obey and follow them, you're obeying and following the father. The Father is immortal and all knowing. Jesus pbuh 100% man, 100% god according to you died on the cross and was ignorant of the hour. They are clearly not the same. Nowhere do we see the father praying to Jesus pbuh or taking orders from him. Not the same by a very long shot.

Muslim-UK said:

Every Prophet that came was God's representative, see them, you see the father, obey and follow them, you're obeying and following the father. The Father is immortal and all knowing. Jesus pbuh 100% man, 100% god according to you died on the cross and was ignorant of the hour. They are clearly not the same. Nowhere do we see the father praying to Jesus pbuh or taking orders from him. Not the same by a very long shot.

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No, Jesus is the only one that came in the likeness of the Father, all the Prophet's had human fathers, Jesus had no human father.
God the Father was Jesus only Father, This is why Jesus is called the only begotten of the Father, for Jesus had No human father.
This is why Jesus is called the Son of man, being the Son of mankind.
This is why Jesus is called the Son of God, being God is Jesus Father. For Jesus had No human father.
You and me, we have a human father, Jesus had no human, All the Prophets they all had human fathers.
Jesus was not ignorant of the hour, Jesus knew full well why he was sent here in this world.
For Jesus spoke many times about his hour. In book of Matthew 26:45--"Then cometh He to his disciples, and said unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest, Behold, the hour is at hand, and the
Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners"
In book of Mark 14:41--"And He cometh the third time,and said unto them, Sleep on now, and take your rest, it is enough, the hour is come, behold, the Son of man is betrayed into the hands of sinners"

So it is, Jesus was not ignorant of his hour.

You see prophet Muhammad do not tell you in the q'uran why Jesus had to die or why Jesus was sent in this world.
Or how Jesus can be man and God.
And that Jesus had no human father, Jesus has only one Father which the Almighty God of father Abraham.

Jesus many times saw father Abraham and sat with father Abraham.
In book of John 8:56-58--"Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it, and was glad, Then said the Jews unto him, Your not yet 50 years old, and you has seen Abraham, Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Before
Abraham was, I am"

As you can see, even Jesus saying he is the Almighty God the Father. Before father Abraham came to be born, Jesus was before father Abraham was born. For Jesus is the Great I Am. The Almighty God the Father.
Look even back to Moses, the Lord God Jesus spoke unto Moses saying, "And I appeared unto Abraham, unto Isaac, and unto Jacob, by the name of God Almighty.
Exodus 6:3.

When Jesus said unto the Jews, that before Abraham was I am.
"And God said unto Moses, I AM THAT I AM. Exodus 3:14.

Look back Jesus speaking to the Jews told them that how Abraham saw him and was glad in John 8:56-58.
Now here in book of Genesis 18:1-33.
"And the Lord appeared unto him
( Abraham ) do you know who the Lord is, This is Christ Jesus the Lord appeared unto Abraham as he sat in the door of his tent. And Abraham saw three men, and said my Lord if now I have found favour in your site.

Now you see even father Abraham saw Jesus and called him Lord. As Jesus said, Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day, and he saw it, and was glad.
John 8:56-58.

While Jesus was here in this world, Jesus sitting us the example to follow.
When Jesus was praying to the Father, Jesus was giving us the example how to pray to the Father.

Many people will say, when Jesus was praying was Jesus praying to himself.
No Jesus was showing us by example how we are to pray to the Father.