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Catholic=/=Roman.

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
@metis

When we consider the methods used by Jesus in his preaching activity, we can compare what he said and did with what the churches are doing. I see no resemblance. Regardless of denomination, people are taught to believe false ideas about God and about his Christ and about a multitude of different teachings. People can either stay in those churches unconvinced or confused, or they can get off their posteriors and search for themselves who are really teaching what the Bible says. The lazy ones don't care, they are happy to show up for mass or a church service and allow the priest or minister to know it all for them......but for those who give a hoot, that will never be good enough. They will leave if they feel like 'mushrooms'.
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Some are content to ditch religion altogether and adopt popular atheism and that is their choice. Others 'shop' for their beliefs taking a little from here and a little from there and formulate their very own religion, becoming their own teacher. They too are entitled to follow that path. But if there is ONE God and ONE truth from the Bible, and there is only ONE unpopular group promoting it as Jesus said they would, (John 15:18-21; John 18:37) then they were to ask God for the boldness to preach that unpopular message to the world. (Ephesians 6:19) Please remember that Jesus and his apostles were viewed a "apostates" by the Pharisees.

JW's call on people of all faiths, not in the hope of destroying their faith in God, but in the hope of introducing them to a God they have never met. He is not a three headed monstrosity who tortures wicked souls forever in a fiery hell, but he is a just and loving Father who hates hypocrisy and who offers hope and a future to all who genuinely search for him with all their heart. (Jeremiah 29:11-12)

JW's cop a lot a flack from others and we have learned that it comes with the territory....it's nothing new for Christians who are trying to do God's will in their lives instead of selling out to the devil's system. We are no part of that world. (John 18:36)

Just like Jesus and his disciples, we are searching for the "lost sheep". God knows who they are and directs us to them. We do not steal "sheep" from other religions, we take their lost and injured and heal them....like Jesus did. Not physically, but spiritually....the physical healing comes later.

I will never be able to convince anyone of anything against their will.....God doesn't want me to. All I can do is expose what I believe to be errors and hope that the right hearts see the truth. You have the same option.

Whining about criticism is not how you promote the truth.
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If you say there is no sun worship in Catholicism....then why is the sun featured so strongly in RC worship?

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The monstrance
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The "host" is the shape of the sun.

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The Babylonian sun wheel.....

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..... is seen in St Peter's Square.

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The obelisk, in the middle of the Square (transported from Egypt) is a symbol of the sun god Ra.

images
The nimbus or halo is a symbol of sun worship.

How can it be denied? So many look without seeing. :(
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
JW's call on people of all faiths, not in the hope of destroying their faith in God, but in the hope of introducing them to a God they have never met.
Wrong. When you strut around like a peacock telling everyone that they're wrong and you're right, then you stand the chance of destroying what faith they may have.

We do not steal "sheep" from other religions,
See above.

If you say there is no sun worship in Catholicism....then why is the sun featured so strongly in RC worship?
Did you ever consider how the N.T. uses the term "light", Deeje? Did you ever read Paul's comments on this? What is Earth's primary source of light, Deeje?

The nimbus or halo is a symbol of sun worship.
Now you are just out-and-out lying as it is forbidden for Catholics to worship any such objects?

Do you get your jollies by telling all these pathetic lies that you could very easily look up and see are false? Ever think of linking up to Catholic sites to check this out? Ever think maybe asking a priest?

How can it be denied? So many look without seeing. :(
And some work out of blind ignorance and make up stories or believe what others may have taught them without checking out real sources, Deeje. As a non-Catholic and a non-Christian, I disagree with probably about 99.9% of what the church teaches in regards to faith, but at least I don't fabricate dishonest stories about Catholicism and lie through my teeth as you have continuously done here.

Several decades ago, I taught Catholic theology, although I left the church a bit later, and what you write about it is so utterly wrong. And yet you don't seem even to have the common sense to look things up from real sources that could correct your nonsense. And yet you come here and insult people's faith while your faith seems to be at least partially based on a belief in dishonest fabrications.
For you to accuse Catholics of worshiping the sun is just utter stupidity, complete dishonesty, or both. And if this is what your JW leaders teach, you should be looking for a new congregation that actually doesn't fabricate such dishonesty? Maybe actually start looking things up from real sources and not what your JW leaders teach you, Deeje. Maybe even read this:Do Catholics Worship the Sun?

or Is Catholicism Pagan? | Catholic Answers

But you likely won't since the JW leaders tell you not to read such stuff, right Deeje?

So utterly pathetic.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
When you strut around like a peacock telling everyone that they're wrong and you're right, then you stand the chance of destroying what faith they may have.

If that faith will not lead them to God, then I am remiss if I fail to tell them. They have the same obligation to me...do they not? The first Christians preached to the Jews and later to those of other faiths. But, their first responsibility was to preach to those who professed to worship the same God.

Christians are to preach the Bible's message in all the world metis....how long should I wait for Catholics to come and preach to me about God's kingdom? I believe that this world is running out of time.(Matthew 24:14)

Did you ever consider how the N.T. uses the term "light", Deeje? Did you ever read Paul's comments on this? What is Earth's primary source of light, Deeje?

Yes and it also tells us not to MAKE images of "anything" (including the sun for use in worship.) Yet here we see images of Mary receiving what appears to be worshipful devotion.

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images


images
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No idolatry here?.....when did Mary become more important that God and his Christ? Can you show me where it says that in the Bible at all? Where is it stated in scripture that images are now OK to use in worship? (Exodus 20:4-6) Please don't tell me this is not idol worship.

Now you are just out-and-out lying as it is forbidden for Catholics to worship any such objects?

Yes, I am aware of their claim not to worship objects but looking at those pics, I have to wonder.....?
A lot of people do.

Do you get your jollies by telling all these pathetic lies that you could very easily look up and see are false? Ever think of linking up to Catholic sites to check this out? Ever think maybe asking a priest?

I get no jollies from exposing the lies taught by Christendom metis. I know what happens when many Catholic people hear the truth for the first time. Seeing what is stated in God's word and comparing it to what they are taught, creates quite a bit of anger actually.

As a non-Catholic and a non-Christian, I disagree with probably about 99.9% of what the church teaches in regards to faith, but at least I don't fabricate dishonest stories about Catholicism and lie through my teeth as you have continuously done here.

I tell no lies metis. As far as Christianity goes, what Christendom teaches could not be further from the truth. If I am wrong show me the scriptures that prove it. I don't need excuses, just scripture.

Several decades ago, I taught Catholic theology, although I left the church a bit later, and what you write about it is so utterly wrong. And yet you don't seem even to have the common sense to look things up from real sources that could correct your nonsense. And yet you come here and insult people's faith while your faith seems to be at least partially based on a belief in dishonest fabrications.

I have consulted many Catholic sites and hear the same justification from all of them. If people want to believe these justifications, then they are free to do so. Catholicism has no similarity to the Christianity preached by Jesus in any way. The apostasy was foretold by Jesus himself. What makes you think it didn't happen?

Maybe actually start looking things up from real sources and not what your JW leaders teach you, Deeje. Maybe even read this:Do Catholics Worship the Sun?

It is the Catholic Church and Catholic people who have taught me all I need to know about Catholicism. I have spoken to priests and they are hard pressed to answer even the simple questions like "what is the kingdom that Jesus told us to pray for?" They know their Catechism, but are a little light on their Bibles. They believe what they are taught by their own church leaders, so how can you complain about us listening to our "leaders"?
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
If that faith will not lead them to God, then I am remiss if I fail to tell them.
But that's simply another lie from you, Deeje, as the JW's try and proselytize people away from their faith if they already belong to another church or religion. I can't tell you how many times I have had one of them on my doorstep or in my home basically insinuating that my wife and I belong to the wrong faith.

Christians are to preach the Bible's message in all the world metis....how long should I wait for Catholics to come and preach to me about God's kingdom?
The CC goes about it in a different way, namely trying to do their best to deal with Jesus' message of compassion and justice, regardless of whether they are affiliated with any other religion or are secular. The church has the most extensive charity work of any worldwide charitable body. IOW, they walk the walk and not just talk the talk, and doesn't the scriptures say that you will know them by their fruits, Deeje?

Yes and it also tells us not to MAKE images of "anything" (including the sun for use in worship.) Yet here we see images of Mary receiving what appears to be worshipful devotion.
We've been through this before, Deeje, and there are two things wrong with your assertion here. One is that it says not to make and worship a "graven image", but even with that what's exactly a "graven image" is never defined in the scriptures.

The second error of yours is that, contrary to your lies. the CC does teach its congregation that they are simply not to worship any images. I've gone to mass for over 50 years, and I can categorically say that you don't know what you're talking about, and because of the fact that you won't do the research from real sources, your dishonesty is simply so utterly pathetic.

I know what happens when many Catholic people hear the truth for the first time.
And I know well what happens with some JW's who leave, such as one of my former neighbors.

I have consulted many Catholic sites and hear the same justification from all of them.
This is so unbelievable twisted. So, instead of actually looking up what Catholics teach "from the horse's mouth", including the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", you instead ignore their official teachings and go with what your JW leaders have told you what to believe. Do you have any clue how outrageously twisted that is? Remember that next time when someone falsely accuses JW's of teaching things that you know are not true and you try and correct them, Deeje.

The apostasy was foretold by Jesus himself. What makes you think it didn't happen?
What does John 3[16] say? Just a reminder from the verse that you seemingly just choose to ignore: John 3[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Now, do Catholics teach that, Deeje? Of course they do, so maybe it's time for you to reconsider whether you actually believe this or choose to keep adding additional stipulations.

It is the Catholic Church and Catholic people who have taught me all I need to know about Catholicism. I have spoken to priests and they are hard pressed to answer even the simple questions like "what is the kingdom that Jesus told us to pray for?" They know their Catechism, but are a little light on their Bibles.
Aren't you aware of the fact that in order to become a priest, it takes the minimum of an undergrad degree in theology? Most Jesuits go well beyond that. What's your educational level in theology, Deeje?

Frankly, since you seem to distort and lie about so many things as we've seen, it's hard for me to believe hardly anything you say. You have a blind faith in your JW leaders, so it seems that instead of actually doing research to look things up from real sources, you believe the trash that your leaders have brainwashed you to believe.

Yes, there's plenty of room to argue against Catholic theology, but at least do so in an honest way, Deeje.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
But that's simply another lie from you, Deeje, as the JW's try and proselytize people away from their faith if they already belong to another church or religion. I can't tell you how many times I have had one of them on my doorstep or in my home basically insinuating that my wife and I belong to the wrong faith.

We believe that Christendom is on the wrong path metis....just as you believe we are. Please remember that Jesus and his disciples preached to their fellow Jews......their own countrymen and brothers of their own faith. Why were the "lost sheep of the house of Israel" ..."lost"? It was because their religious 'shepherds' had departed from the faith that God delivered to Israel at Mt Sinai. They had supplanted God's word with their own traditions. We see the exact same thing happened to Christianity, as Jesus warned. Christendom was born out of an apostate faith. History speaks to the conduct of the "church" in century after century of abuse. Power hungry men elevated themselves above the flock and built great edifices for their own glory....that power ended up greater than the rulers of the nations. Power always corrupts, which is why Luther did what he did. History tells the story metis, not us. Its a sad and sorry tale. :(

The CC goes about it in a different way, namely trying to do their best to deal with Jesus' message of compassion and justice, regardless of whether they are affiliated with any other religion or are secular. The church has the most extensive charity work of any worldwide charitable body. IOW, they walk the walk and not just talk the talk,

Funny but the Catholic people I have spoken to, never seem to talk about anything but the rosary and going to mass.....ask them a spiritual question and you get referred to the Catechism or their priest, not the Bible. In fact sadly, some Catholic people don't know the difference. Its a fact that the majority of Catholic people see the practice of their religion as performing rituals and repeating words and phrases, rather than serving God in any real way. Where will I find rosary beads in the Bible? Where will I find Jesus telling sinners to say 10 Hail Mary's and 5 Our Father's? Seriously? :oops:

And as far as the "charitable" work is concerned, Jesus never promoted hand to mouth charity. He taught people to be self-sufficient......'don't hand the man a fish....teach him to fish' was the Christian ethic.(2 Thessalonians 3:10-12) 'Rice Christians' are not true Christians....are they?

You know that charities get used and abused by those who have no intention of changing their ways. Jesus did not help those who could help themselves by changing their conduct and attitude. In fact when he fed the multitudes and they returned the next day, he inferred that they had just come back for the free food. (John 6:25-26) He told them that the most important food was spiritual.

Truthfully now, how many charities are really businesses? Real charities should be run by volunteers, not highly paid CEO's. Jesus' compassion was for the "lost sheep" of his own people whilst he conducted his brief earthly ministry. In order to benefit from any assistance, widows and other disadvantaged ones had to be members of the Christian congregation. (1 Timothy 5:9-10) They took care of their own first....like we do. But no Christian can see any person in genuine need and ignore them. In our door to door ministry, we get many opportunities to assist people in all sorts of predicaments....only because we are out there doing as Christ instructed.....looking for the lost sheep and helping where there is a need. We just don't blow a trumpet about it. (Matthew 6:3-4)

and doesn't the scriptures say that you will know them by their fruits, Deeje?

Do you really want to go there metis....? :facepalm: Believe me, Jesus will take care of the rotten trees producing the rotten fruit. (Matthew 7:17-20)

We've been through this before, Deeje, and there are two things wrong with your assertion here. One is that it says not to make and worship a "graven image", but even with that what's exactly a "graven image" is never defined in the scriptures.

God said not to "MAKE" images. (Exodus 20:4)......If you don't make them, you don't have a problem with bowing down before them and it being seen as worship. Obedience means you don't have to make excuses. :p

A 'graven image' is something contrived by man. The golden calf was a graven image and we know how that ended. "No images" in God's law meant no images of "anything" to which devotion could be directed. Does that even need explaining? :shrug: Is finding loopholes in God's law something we should devote time to? Or should we simply do as we are told?

The second error of yours is that, contrary to your lies. the CC does teach its congregation that they are simply not to worship any images. I've gone to mass for over 50 years, and I can categorically say that you don't know what you're talking about, and because of the fact that you won't do the research from real sources, your dishonesty is simply so utterly pathetic.

The Catholic Church is no stranger to dishonesty though is it metis? I have done research from the "real sources" and all I see is justification for things that the God of the Bible could never endorse......like the teaching of hellfire, purgatory, the trinity, mother goddess worship, idolatry, empty ritual, and meaningless, repetitive prayers. None of which come from scripture or the teachings of the Master.

Catholicism directs most of its devotion to Mary, not to Jesus or his Father. In fact, the ranks are reversed as far as I can see.
Why is that, when Mary does not rate as much of a mention in the scriptures as Catholicism's devotion to her would indicate?
Mary was chosen as the 'vehicle' for the promised seed to enter the world. Seeing as how it had to be an earthly woman, God chose a devout woman whose husband would be the kind of family head who would be a strong guiding force in the life of this growing boy.
Catholicism teaches that Mary remained ever virgin and that Jesus had no siblings....the Bible says otherwise. (Matthew 13:55; Mark 3:31-32; Matthew 1:25) Why did Mary need to remain a virgin? The Bible does not say that.

The fact that you disagree with 99% of Catholic doctrine and yet still attend this church says more about your admirable devotion to your wife than devotion to any god. There are many 'fence sitters' in the world who imagine that they will decide once they see something with their own eyes.....but according to scripture, if you 'see' Christ coming as judge, it will be too late to get off that fence. This I believe is a time for decision. (James 1:5-8)
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
And I know well what happens with some JW's who leave, such as one of my former neighbors.

Anyone is free to leave our ranks metis. It is those who leave with malice and an axe to grind who will receive what they ask for. We will not tolerate those who wish to cause dissension in our ranks. The first Christians didn't either. (1 Cor 5:9-13) They are removed, but no one is excluded permanently unless they choose to remain so. We too welcome back lost sheep who stray and are repentant...like the prodigal son.

This is so unbelievable twisted. So, instead of actually looking up what Catholics teach "from the horse's mouth", including the "Catechism of the Catholic Church", you instead ignore their official teachings and go with what your JW leaders have told you what to believe.

And didn't those website you linked to mention Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and others who question Catholic dogma? Who do we believe? I think the facts speak for themselves, personally. But people are free to do their own research on these matters. Most will believe what they want to believe.

What does John 3[16] say? Just a reminder from the verse that you seemingly just choose to ignore: John 3[16] For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

Do you see what the fate is of those who do not "believe" in Christ? The opposite of eternal life is eternal death....to "perish", never to be seen again. So what does it mean to "believe" in the Biblical sense?
James wrote...“You believe there is one God, do you?....And yet the demons believe and shudder.” (James 2:19) It is obviously more than just 'believing' that he existed and is the son of God....even the demons know that. Our faith has to have meaningful works to back it up. (James 2:26)


Now, do Catholics teach that, Deeje? Of course they do, so maybe it's time for you to reconsider whether you actually believe this or choose to keep adding additional stipulations.

How do they believe that God loved the world? Enough to turn a blind eye to the introduction of corruption and false teachings so that people became confused as to who God really was? Do Catholics worship the same God as the Jews? Or is it the same god as the Romans? The RCC is the "mother" church and she has many daughters who broke away but took their mother's teachings with them. (Revelation 17:3-6)

Aren't you aware of the fact that in order to become a priest, it takes the minimum of an undergrad degree in theology? Most Jesuits go well beyond that. What's your educational level in theology, Deeje?

Now that's funny metis.....who said that Christians need a degree in theology? It wasn't Jesus. In fact Jesus did not endorse the schools of higher learning among the Jews and purposely chose disciples who were not formally educated as well. The Jews demeaned them as "uneducated". Why do you suppose Jesus did that?

"For you see his calling of you, brothers, that there are not many wise in a fleshly way, not many powerful, not many of noble birth, 27 but God chose the foolish things of the world to put the wise men to shame; and God chose the weak things of the world to put the strong things to shame; 28 and God chose the insignificant things of the world and the things looked down on, the things that are not, to bring to nothing the things that are, 29 so that no one might boast in the sight of God."

That is why....no one should boast about their spiritual 'credentials'....especially if God wasn't the one who issued them.
All of Jehovah's Witnesses are part of an ongoing Bible education program from which they never graduate. No one ever gets degrees or accolades of achievement in our organization. We all view ourselves as slaves in the Master's service. Some get greater responsibilities, according to their abilities, is all. (Matthew 25:14-17)

Frankly, since you seem to distort and lie about so many things as we've seen, it's hard for me to believe hardly anything you say. You have a blind faith in your JW leaders, so it seems that instead of actually doing research to look things up from real sources, you believe the trash that your leaders have brainwashed you to believe.

I am a bit over the "lying" accusations metis. I have not once lied in anything I have written. You don't like what I have said and I understand why.....but it doesn't mean I have lied about any of it. Would you like a list of the things the church has lied about? You accuse me of being "brainwashed" and yet what do you believe the church does to its members? It feeds them beliefs that find no place in God's word at all. Is that lying?

Yes, there's plenty of room to argue against Catholic theology, but at least do so in an honest way, Deeje.

I have done it in as honest a manner as I can. This is what I honestly believe. You believe differently and you defend the church your wife attends out of loyalty to her. That is very admirable, but it earns you no 'Brownie Points' with God. You support the church by your presence there. So to all observers, including the Creator, you have thrown your lot in with them. We all need to choose where we stand. If you have chosen, then what more can be said? Go in peace and be confident of your position. I don't believe that there will be a great deal of time left to change your mind anyway.
 
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metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Funny but the Catholic people I have spoken to, never seem to talk about anything but the rosary and going to mass.....ask them a spiritual question and you get referred to the Catechism or their priest, not the Bible.
How many times do I have to quote John 3[16] before its message sinks in, Deeje? Well, here it is again:
John 3[16]For God so loved the world that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

The point that you can't seem to understand is that faith can be very simple and yet be very authentic. One doesn't have to have a ph.d. in theology to have faith, nor does one have to go about trying to cut down other people because they may belong to another faith as you and your fellow JW's are doing. Jesus says "judge ye not", but you have concluded that what Jesus says really isn't that important to you, and we'll see another example of that later in this post that I have responded to.

And as far as the "charitable" work is concerned, Jesus never promoted hand to mouth charity.
Absolutely false. Matthew 25 [37] Then the righteous will answer him, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry and feed thee, or thirsty and give thee drink?
[38] And when did we see thee a stranger and welcome thee, or naked and clothe thee?
[39] And when did we see thee sick or in prison and visit thee?'
[40] And the King will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it to one of the least of these my brethren, you did it to me.'
[41] Then he will say to those at his left hand, `Depart from me, you cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels;
[42] for I was hungry and you gave me no food, I was thirsty and you gave me no drink,
[43] I was a stranger and you did not welcome me, naked and you did not clothe me, sick and in prison and you did not visit me.'

[44] Then they also will answer, `Lord, when did we see thee hungry or thirsty or a stranger or naked or sick or in prison, and did not minister to thee?'
[45] Then he will answer them, `Truly, I say to you, as you did it not to one of the least of these, you did it not to me.'
[46] And they will go away into eternal punishment, but the righteous into eternal life."


He taught people to be self-sufficient......'don't hand the man a fish....teach him to fish' was the Christian ethic.(2 Thessalonians 3:10-12) 'Rice Christians' are not true Christians....are they?
Again, your dishonesty on this is showing. Here's what the verses say: 2 Thessalonians 3[10] For even when we were with you, we gave you this command: If any one will not work, let him not eat.
[11] For we hear that some of you are living in idleness, mere busybodies, not doing any work.
[12] Now such persons we command and exhort in the Lord Jesus Christ to do their work in quietness and to earn their own living.

This issue clearly being mentioned deals with those who refuse to work, not those who may not be able to find work, or may be widows, or orphans, or the handicapped, or...

On top of this, you virtually ignore what the Sermon On the Mount teaches, Deeje. Do I have to go through that with you as well?

Do you really want to go there metis....? :facepalm:
Well, Deeje, since you virtually ignore the many scriptural mandates to help the poor and downtrodden, yes-- go for it, Deeje.
A 'graven image' is something contrived by man.
Do you ever use a camera? The scriptures never say that a "graven image" must be 3-dimensional, which is why some Jewish groups do not use cameras.

The Catholic Church is no stranger to dishonesty though is it metis?
Nor obviously are you as you continue with your lies and distortions, plus your claim that you believe in the Bible when it's quite clear that much of it you actually don't believe in, nor do. Maybe be less judgmental towards others and maybe be at least a bit more judgmental of yourself. After all, to repeat, didn't Jesus say "judge ye not"?

Catholicism directs most of its devotion to Mary, not to Jesus or his Father.
Another pathetic lie, Deeje. The prayers at any given mass are to God. Why don't you actually go to a mass and see for yourself. Oh, I'm sorry, you're not allowed to. After all, why would the JW leaders want you to go and see the truth whereas they can tell you their lies?

The fact that you disagree with 99% of Catholic doctrine and yet still attend this church says more about your admirable devotion to your wife than devotion to any god.
So laughable-- but also so pathetic. FYI, I even go when my wife can't make it as I use the mass as a form of meditation on the "divine", whatever that might be, and on moral living. But I do admit my theology is extremely liberal to say the least, largely because I have not allowed myself to be brainwashed by religious leaders from any faith.
 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
Anyone is free to leave our ranks metis. It is those who leave with malice and an axe to grind who will receive what they ask for.
Oh, I see-- if anyone leaves the JW's it's because they have "malice and an ax to grind"? Did you ever stop and think that maybe they came to disagree with what may be taught?
And didn't those website you linked to mention Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons and others who question Catholic dogma?
What does that have to do with what I posted? Grasping at straws, are ya, Deeje? That wasn't the issue and you know it, as it dealt with what Catholics actually teach in regards to their worship (the sun, remember?).

How do they believe that God loved the world?
Of course Catholics believe and teach that, Deeje. Ever consider going to a mass to see and hear for yourself? Oh, I forgot, your leaders don't want you to do that.

Do Catholics worship the same God as the Jews?
Yep.

Or is it the same god as the Romans?
Nope.

Now that's funny metis.....who said that Christians need a degree in theology? It wasn't Jesus.
I didn't say they did, Deeje. Again, your distortions of what I actually said is just so pathetic, and it was you, not I, who accused the average Catholic for being ignorant in their faith, which is why I mention the education of the average priest.
I am a bit over the "lying" accusations metis. I have not once lied in anything I have written.
When you are given access and quotes to information that clearly points that you are not telling the truth, but yet you come back and repeat the same exact falsehood, that can be called a "lie". It matters not whether you think you're telling a "lie" or not, but when the truth is there for you to see but you choose to ignore it and continue on, that's still a "lie". "Lies" do not rely on whether you believe you're lying.

This is what I honestly believe. You believe differently and you defend the church your wife attends out of loyalty to her. That is very admirable, but it earns you no 'Brownie Points' with God.
And you believe you can speak for God, right? I explained in my last post why I attend mass with or without her, plus I mentioned a while back why I attend quite a few other paces of worship. I believe in hearing other perspectives, Deeje.

You support the church by your presence there. So to all observers, including the Creator, you have thrown your lot in with them.
And I'm glad I did, as imperfect as they and I are.

Anyhow, at least for the time being, I'm done.
 
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