• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

The Bible declares that Jesus is God

kjw47

Well-Known Member
I believe current translators went back to the original texts and produce a result with the Trinity in it. My guess is that Jw's a priori decided there wasn't one and mistranslated it away as best they could.


The only original texts left by the time anyone else translated were Catholicism works of translating. And Hebrew which is not in harmony with Catholicism translating.
The New world translation fixed the errors of Catholicism translating. Its the only way this could be truth--Dan 12:4--was by correction being made here in these last days. Catholicism translating caused much confusion= 33,000 different trinity religions.
Don't forget-Mark 3:24-26--a house divided will not stand.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
No Michael in this text. Only in your imagination. In this debate you are only existing in the echo-chamber of your tradition. You are revealing yourself as an absurd (in the technical sense) puppet.



You mean its you who doesn't have a clue to the truths I share.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
You cannot even agree with, let alone defend, your own Kingdom Interlinear which properly translates John 20:28 when Thomas sees the risen Christ:

ἀπεκρίθηAnswered ΘωμᾶςThomas καὶand εἶπενhe said αὐτῷto him ὉThe κύριόςLord μουof me καὶand ὁthe θεόςGod μου.of me!

Here is irrefutable, solid evidence against your assertion: "Jesus is NEVER called--HO THEOS( THE GOD) in the NT"

This verse, alone, in your own JW Greek Interlinear, contradicts the JW's false teaching against the full deity of Christ.

When someone provides refutation of you and you just keep repeating the same simplistic stuff, that is a demonstration you do not possess the capability of actually refuting the arguments presented to you. Your narrative cannot survive cross-examination.


Thomas was confused obviously on both ends of the spectrum.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
John 14:10 (ESV Strong's) 10 Do you not believe that I am in the Father and the Father is in me? The words that I say to you I do not speak on my own authority, but the Father who dwells in me does his works.



I don't see the term God in the flesh. you assume because your teachers assume.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Luke 10:17-18 (ESV Strong's) 17 The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven.

Revelation is an end time prophecy, Jesus saw satan being kicked out of heaven. "I saw" = past tense, how could Revelation 6 have happened in 1914? No seals of the scroll have been opened yet.



John saw the events of Revelation--yet not one of them occurred until now in these last days. Jesus saw because his Father let him see what was to be.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
I don't know of anyone shown the meaning although there are plenty of people who think they know the meaning and don't.


The JW teachers are correct on the events of Revelation. We are nearing its conclusion.--Babylon the great( false religions will fall very soon at the hand of the 7 headed beast with 10 horns( united nations)--this locks the door to all.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Thomas was confused obviously on both ends of the spectrum.

Oh how I love the witness mind set! Thomas, who walked with Jesus, heard Jesus teach, ate with Jesus, saw the miracles Jesus performed, who saw and touched the risen Christ, and yet, Thomas was confused but your self appointed teachers, that keep getting it wrong and have to make corrections are not! I love it!!!!!!
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
I believe you have facts but I believe you misconstrue them. I accept valid proof as long as the person follows the rules of logic. I haven't seen any valid proof for the JW's views of Christmas and Easter yet. I go by the Bible and both events are in there.



Read the encyclopedias about Christmas and easter. Pagan additives off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) in both of them.
The false god holiday things associated into easter has--Astarte(Ishtar) as the false god--very close to the name easter.
Yule is from pagan practices--the tree is from pagan practices--- The pagan false holiday--saturnalia festival--the exchanging of gifts and feasting) on or around Dec 25th--turned into Christmas. God doesn't forget the realities behind these things--Not even to mention satan claus is stealing 98% of the holiday away from Jesus.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Philippians 2:5 Have this attitude [e]in yourselves which was also in Christ Jesus, 6 who, although He existed in the form of God, did not regard equality with God a thing to be [f]grasped, 7 but [g]emptied Himself, taking the form of a bond-servant, and being made in the likeness of men. 8 Being found in appearance as a man, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even death [h]on a cross. 9 For this reason also, God highly exalted Him, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee will bow, of those who are in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and that every tongue will confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. NASB

5 In your relationships with one another, have the same mindset as Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in very nature God, did not consider equality with God something to be used to his own advantage; 7 rather, he made himself nothing by taking the very nature of a servant,being made in human likeness. 8 And being found in appearance as a man, he humbled himself by becoming obedient to death—even death on a cross! 9 Therefore God exalted him to the highest place and gave him the name that is above every name,10 that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, in heaven and on earth and under the earth, 11 and every tongue acknowledge that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father. NIV

The text begins with an affirmation that the Lord Jesus initially was en morphe theou hyperchon (“in the form/nature of God existing”) and that he then emptied himself by taking on morphen doulou (“form/nature of a slave”) by being born as a man.

It is clear that this passage is an explicit and emphatic witness to Jesus’ prehuman existence, and not only to his preexistence but to his having existed as God in heaven before he became man. After all, no one disputes the fact that to exist in the form of a servant is to be a servant, is to have the very nature of a servant. In a similar manner, to exist in God’s form is to have the very nature of God, is to exist as God.

To put this in simpler terms, if one denies that Christ was truly God one must also deny that he was truly a servant. There is simply no way around this point.


“… It is not doubtful that Paul thought of Jesus Christ in terms of God. He says of Jesus that he was in the form of God. (Phil. 2:6). He then goes on to say that Jesus was found in human form (Phil. 2:8, RSV), where the AV renders that he was found in fashion as a man. The RSV somewhat misleadingly translates two Greek words by the English word form, whereas the AV correctly distinguishes between them. In the first instance the word is morphe, which means the unchanging and unchangeable essential nature of a thing; the second word is schema, which means the changing and altering external form of a person or a thing. For instance, a man has always the unchanging morphe of manhood; that is what he essentially is; but he will have different schemata, different outward forms, in babyhood, childhood, youth, maturity and old age. A tulip, a rose, a chrysanthemum, a marigold, a daffodil, a delphinium all have the same morphe, the same essential nature, for they are all flowers; but they have very different outward schemata, outward forms. Paul says that Jesus was in the morphe of God; that is to say, the essential nature of Jesus is the same as the essential nature of God; but he says that Jesus was found in the schema of a man; that is to say, he temporarily took the form of manhood upon him. The NEB renders the Greek well here. In translating the word morphe it renders the passage: ‘The divine nature was his from the first.’ In translating the word schema it says that he was ‘revealed in human shape.’ This passage leaves us in no doubt that Paul believed that the nature of Jesus is the nature of God.” (Barclay, Jesus As They Saw Him [Eerdmans Publishing Company; Grand Rapids MI, rpt. 1998], pp. 27-28; bold emphasis ours)


Rather, "existing," present active participle of huparcho. In the form of God (en morphe theou). Morph means the essential attributes as shown in the form. In his preincarnate state Christ possessed the attributes of God and so appeared to those in heaven who saw him. Here is a clear statement by Paul of the deity of Christ. (Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament; underline emphasis ours)

In other words, since to exist in the form of God is to bear the very nature and glory of God Jesus must therefore be equal with God the Father in essence. As the following writer puts it:

“The definite article to of to einai confirms that this second expression is closely connected with the first, for the function of the definite article here is designated to point back to something previously mentioned. Therefore one should expect that to einai isa theoi (“the being equal with God”) would refer epexegetically [explanatory] to the en morphe theou huparchon (“existing in the form of God”) that preceded it. This means then that “the being equal with God” is precisely another way of saying “in the form of God.” Or better still, whatever meaning one might put forth as a possible meaning for the expression morphe theou can only be properly understood in terms of isa theo, and vice versa — to einai isa theoi can only be properly understood in terms of morphe theou.” (Hawthorne, “In the Form of God and Equal with God,” Where Christology Began, p. 104)

“… (4) On the difficult translation issue of the meaning of verse 6b, I think the best linguistic argument now suggests the translation: ‘he did not think equality with God something to be used for his own advantage’. In other words, the issue is not whether Christ gains equality or whether he retains it, as in some translations. He has equality with God and there is no question of losing it; the issue is his attitude to it. (5) The ‘form of God’ (v. 6) and the ‘form of a servant’ (v. 7), which are clearly intended to be contrasted, refer to forms of appearance: the splendour of the divine glory in heaven contrasted with the human form on earth.

“These preliminary points about the exegetical decisions I make result in the following exegesis of verses 6-11. The pre-existent Christ, being equal with God, shared the divine glory in heaven. But he did not consider equality with God something he should use for his own advantage. He did not understand his equality with God as a matter of being served by others, but as something he could express in service, obedience, self-renunciation and self-humiliation for others. Therefore, he renounced the outward splendour of the heavenly court for the life of a human being on earth, one who lived his obedience to God in self-humiliation even to the point of the peculiarly shameful death by crucifixion, the death of a slave… (Richard Bauckham, Jesus and the God of Israel – God Crucified and Other Studies on the New Testament’s Christology of Divine Identity [William B. Eerdmans Publishing Company, Grand Rapids, MI/ Cambridge, U.K. 2008], 1. God Crucified, pp. 41-42; underline emphasis ours)


“… The term [pleroma] may express simply ‘totality.’ As modified in 2:9, the term means ‘the full measure of deity,’ and 1:19 must bear the same meaning. Therefore, it expresses that Jesus was completely God. Everything that God is, Jesus is… Here Paul stated that the Godhead determined that the human Jesus would be God, sharing all the properties, characteristics, and prerogatives of God himself. Of course, the movement in the incarnation was that God took flesh, not that a human was elevated to deity. The statement actually means that God was pleased to take human form in Jesus. He was no less than God, and he continues to be fully divine (‘dwell’ is present tense stressing an ongoing reality).

“Another factor to consider in this statement is that Paul attributed everything to the Father. The context stresses the work of God the Father on behalf of Christians. The motif continues here. There is perfect harmony in the plan of salvation, for God the Father initiated the deliverance of his people (1:12-14), and God the Father delighted in the fact that Jesus was fully and completely God (1:19)…” (Richard R. Melick, Jr., The New American Commentary, Philippians–Colossians–Philemon, pp. 224-225; comments within brackets and bold and underline emphasis ours)

"You must have the same mindset among yourselves that was in Christ Jesus, Who, although He eternally existed in the very form of God, did not consider that equality He had with God the Father something to be held on to at all costs, but instead He made Himself nothing, by taking on the very form of a slave, by being made in human likeness. And having entered into human existence, He humbled Himself by becoming obedient to the point of death, even the death one dies on a cross! Because of this, God the Father exalted Him to the highest place, and bestowed on Him the name which is above every name, so that at the mention of the exalted name of Jesus everyone who is in heaven, on earth, and under the earth, bows the knee, and every tongue confesses: ‘Jesus Christ is Lord!’ All to the glory of God the Father!” Dr. James R. White


Reality--The ONE who made Jesus name above other names name was not included in that. No one is greater than YHVH(Jehovah) it was he who made the name Jesus above other names. It was he who did it all through Jesus( Acts 2:22-John 5:30)
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
It has begun, look at Russia, false religion is falling!!



We will all see soon. And Russia is a single country--Rev is clear--the 7 headed beast with 10 horns is the one that will do away with Babylon the great--not a country. So your reasoning is not reality on that matter.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Read the encyclopedias about Christmas and easter. Pagan additives off the table of demons( 1Cor 10:21) in both of them.
The false god holiday things associated into easter has--Astarte(Ishtar) as the false god--very close to the name easter.
Yule is from pagan practices--the tree is from pagan practices--- The pagan false holiday--saturnalia festival--the exchanging of gifts and feasting) on or around Dec 25th--turned into Christmas. God doesn't forget the realities behind these things--Not even to mention satan claus is stealing 98% of the holiday away from Jesus.

Matthew 2:11 (ESV Strong's) 11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Oh how I love the witness mind set! Thomas, who walked with Jesus, heard Jesus teach, ate with Jesus, saw the miracles Jesus performed, who saw and touched the risen Christ, and yet, Thomas was confused but your self appointed teachers, that keep getting it wrong and have to make corrections are not! I love it!!!!!!



Reality--Thomas refused to believe it was Jesus( confusion) he demanded proof. There are 5 to 1 proofs Jesus is not God.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
We will all see soon. And Russia is a single country--Rev is clear--the 7 headed beast with 10 horns is the one that will do away with Babylon the great--not a country. So your reasoning is not reality on that matter.

You're showing your deceived mind again! It has to start somewhere, right, or do you think it's going to be a one shot thing, all of Babylon is going to be destroyed at the same time?
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
Matthew 2:11 (ESV Strong's) 11 And going into the house they saw the child with Mary his mother, and they fell down and worshiped him. Then, opening their treasures, they offered him gifts, gold and frankincense and myrrh.


Gods word is clear no mortals or angels get worship--Heb 2:7-9--Jesus was made lower than the angels( mortal) while on earth. He DID NOT get worship--he received obeisance( to a king)( exact same greek word-Proskenaue) 5 different meanings from greek to English--trinity translators erred giving a mortal worship= 0 doubt.
Trinity translations are erred=100% fact--they are misleading all away from entering Gods kingdom.
 

kjw47

Well-Known Member
You're showing your deceived mind again! It has to start somewhere, right, or do you think it's going to be a one shot thing, all of Babylon is going to be destroyed at the same time?


I just told you Rev is clear--the 7 headed beast with 10 horns= united nations do it--not a country. Don't talk about something you have no clue on.
 

djhwoodwerks

Well-Known Member
Reality--The ONE who made Jesus name above other names name was not included in that.

Ephesians 1:20-21 (ESV Strong's) 20 that he worked in Christ when he raised him from the dead and seated him at his right hand in the heavenly places, 21 far above all rule and authority and power and dominion, and above every name that is named, not only in this age but also in the one to come.

Philippians 2:9-10 (ESV Strong's) 9 Therefore God has highly exalted him and bestowed on him the name that is above every name, 10 so that at the name of Jesus every knee should bow,

Does it really say, "above every name but one"? I don't see it.

I guess it's easy to reject the deity of Jesus when He is nothing to you. I mean, Jesus is nothing to the rank and file witness, He's not their mediator, they are not under the New Covenant, they have no hope of salvation, because salvation comes thru the New Covenant.
 

Magus

Active Member
The Book of Revelation is not a prophecy, but since it's subject to interpretation, you can mean it to be anything.

USA people believe the earth revolved around them and they were the target audience of the Book of Revelation, which was written in Greek, not really for Americans high on corn syrup.
 
Top