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Do you believe God’s word or man’s?

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
God said to Adam "In the day you eat of it you will surely die".


Read the wording very carefully, “in the day that you eat” The “day” is in reference to when Adam would eat from the tree, it would be a death sentence. Do you agree that death was the sentence for sin? If so, then Adam was created initially to live forever, it was only after he sinned that he was sentenced to physical death. However, when Adam sinned by eating the forbidden fruit, he did die spiritually. You do agree there are two deaths, correct?

Can I prove this with scripture as it is written…no, but I believe that it can be reasonably construed as I have outlined. In addition, there are many, if not most, conservative Bible scholars that believe that Adam was created immortal and only became mortal after his sin.

but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”” (Genesis 2:17, NASB95)
 

Ted Evans

Active Member
Premium Member
If the 6 creative days are just 24-hrs each, then is the ' day ' mentioned at Genesis 2:4 also a 24-hr. day.

Yes. Consistent with the meaning in same context.

יוֹם 1 yôm 1 day; daylight (1292x)
Gen 1:5, 8, 13–14, 19, 23, 31; 2:2–4, 17; 3:5; 4:14; 5:1–2; 6:5; 7:4, 10–11, 13, 17, 24; 8:3, 6, 10 …
יוֹם yôm day; lifetime; (pl.) reign (Aramaic) (7x)
Ezra 6:9, 15; Dan 6:7, 10, 12–13
יוֹם 2 yôm 2 breath; wind, storm (3x)
Job 30:25; Song 2:17; 4:6
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
No, that's really stupid. Why would he use a finite space of time such as one thousand years to show time does not limit him?? Don't answer that, it was rhetorical. Just think about it.

I don't see how it says 1000 years = 1 day because it doesn't say that.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Read the wording very carefully, “in the day that you eat” The “day” is in reference to when Adam would eat from the tree, it would be a death sentence. Do you agree that death was the sentence for sin? If so, then Adam was created initially to live forever, it was only after he sinned that he was sentenced to physical death. However, when Adam sinned by eating the forbidden fruit, he did die spiritually. You do agree there are two deaths, correct?

Can I prove this with scripture as it is written…no, but I believe that it can be reasonably construed as I have outlined. In addition, there are many, if not most, conservative Bible scholars that believe that Adam was created immortal and only became mortal after his sin.

but from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat from it you will surely die.”” (Genesis 2:17, NASB95)

There is a second death but that's not it. Do you know there is a death for some after the resurrection?
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
and your reason for saying the ^ above ^ is ____________________________

I read there is danger of not entering into God's on-going rest day according to Hebrews 4:1-10
I read there is exhortation to enter into God's rest according to Hebrew 4:11-13
I read when the ancient Israelites left Egypt that failed to enter into God's rest day.
They lacked faith and failed because of disobedience and drew away from God as per Hebrews 3:12.

What do the other 65 books say about it?
 

Deidre

Well-Known Member
No. It contains some men's words about how they experienced and understood their "God", in their time. If we find their stories and editorials about God useful to us, today, that's fine. If we don't, that's fine as well. There is no logical reason for us to idolize their texts, except, perhaps, if we're trying to use this false idolization to dress ourselves up in the illusion of divine authority that we get from such a claim.

You're awesome. Best way of explaining how I've felt, even when I was a Christian.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I don't see how it says 1000 years = 1 day because it doesn't say that.

Sometimes a day is a day, so they couldn't say a day is 1,000 years, they had to say it loosely since only sometimes is a day 1,000 years. The proof would be Adam dying at 930 years, Adam died within the 1,000 year day fulfilling the prophesy that "In the day" he ate the fruit he would die.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Only Christ can do that.

Unless John is another word for christ, you're getting info from John with whom you believe his testimony is from christ. Its totally blocking out the person who wrote scripture with whom scripture is about. You are using scripture as if it obtains eternal life. It does not. Go to god.
 
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Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Great, then all you must do for me to accept your view is to explain where and how, space, matter, energy and time came into existence, using "actual scientific data" can you do that?
Explaining those things, has absolutely nothing do with you rejecting what we CAN explain! That's the real problem right there. Just because we don't have answers to the 'big questions', does not mean we don't what what we can know at this point. Why do you insist in rejected we reject what we can, and do know, and have tons of evidence to support! Why? Is it because you fear changing how you think about God from what you're comfortable with within your religious communities? I believe that is so.

And your proof of that is what?
Modern scholarship. Just do a google search on the two creation stories in Genesis. There's lots of info out there on this.

No. And I have never suggested otherwise. I would suggest you go back and read the OP very carefully, or perhaps, deflection is intentional. As it is obvious to anyone with average intelligence to see you want to make this a science vs religion topic rather than a challenge for those who say they are Christians. [one who professes belief in the teachings of Jesus Christ]
Yet, you are in fact making it that! You more than imply that Christians who don't read the Genesis myth literally need to justify themselves in order to accept modern science? Have I misread your intent completely? You accept modern science, and want to hear how other Christians can also find value in the Bible without it destroying their faith? You're going to have to help me out here, since my IQ is not as high as "average", apparently.
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have no idea what you are referring to can you give me an example?
When you deny modern science, you are motivated by something else that overrides that for you. Why is it that "faith" has to deny knowledge that challenges your beliefs? There is a marked difference between faith, and mere beliefs, you know?
 

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
OK, I took you at your word, I answered your first questions, all of them and then asked some in response. We shall see if your word is dependable or if it is not. Unfortunately, my experience has not been good with this issue, hope this one is different.
Well, I do hope you are sincere enough to be honest in your replies, as my experience has been otherwise with too many an apologist claiming faith, yet denying challenges to beliefs.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Sometimes a day is a day, so they couldn't say a day is 1,000 years, they had to say it loosely since only sometimes is a day 1,000 years. The proof would be Adam dying at 930 years, Adam died within the 1,000 year day fulfilling the prophesy that "In the day" he ate the fruit he would die.

Adam died spiritually the very second he decided to eat it. That's why he suddenly knew he was naked.

The verse doesn't loosely say anything. It just says that to God time doesn't matter.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Unless John is another word for christ, you're getting info from John with whom you believe his testimony is from christ. Its totally blocking out the person who wrote scripture with whom scripture is about. You are using scripture as if it obtains eternal life. It does not. Go to god.

You can only get to God through Jesus. Jesus is the door.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
You can only get to God through Jesus. Jesus is the door.

You can't get to christ through john. It's between you and christ not

You-->translators-->Church-->apostles-->christ-->god

You have too many intermediaries to christ. Then mistaking christ as the source when he is only the message made flesh

Go to christ directly
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
You can't get to christ through john. It's between you and christ not

You-->translators-->Church-->apostles-->christ-->god

You have too many intermediaries to christ. Then mistaking christ as the source when he is only the message made flesh

Go to christ directly

Christ trained and prepared the Apostles personally. I will hear and believe them before I will hear you.
 
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