Noah's Ark Story Decoded

DavidFirth said:

Well, what would I have to do to get you to believe in God? Prove He exists, right? So you see that we're no different in that respect.

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So if you don't prove anything in your posts I would just as soon not hear your opinions anymore.
Prove it, else I do not want to read your posts since you insist on going over the same old stuff each time.
I have read posts on other sites like yours and I have no desire to read anymore of them.

You and your theists can't prove what you believe so I do not accept it as fact and never will since you contradict yourself. Its really just that simple.

Mestemia said:

So if you don't prove anything in your posts I would just as soon not hear your opinions anymore.
Prove it, else I do not want to read your posts since you insist on going over the same old stuff each time.
I have read posts on other sites like yours and I have no desire to read anymore of them.

You and your theists can't prove what you believe so I do not accept it as fact and never will since you contradict yourself. Its really just that simple.

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Interesting how your hypocritical rant works even better when directed at you....

DavidFirth said:

Some people really just can't handle the truth. So they run and hide from it and just hope it will go away. It won't.

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Ouch.
That you fail to see how this applies to you....

Mestemia said:

Ouch.
That you fail to see how this applies to you....

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Jesus is truth. If you don't understand that then of course you feel the way you do. It's completely understandable.

Mestemia said:

So if you don't prove anything in your posts I would just as soon not hear your opinions anymore.
Prove it, else I do not want to read your posts since you insist on going over the same old stuff each time.
I have read posts on other sites like yours and I have no desire to read anymore of them.

You and your theists can't prove what you believe so I do not accept it as fact and never will since you contradict yourself. Its really just that simple.

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Just do yourself a huge favor and put me on ignore. I don't take orders from you and don't plan to ever do so.

DavidFirth said:

Just do yourself a huge favor and put me on ignore. I don't take orders from you and don't plan to ever do so.

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Yet that is what YOU ordered another member to do.....

When are you going to start following YOUR own advice?

DavidFirth said:

Jesus is truth.

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Bold empty claim
I remind you of your order:

DavidFirth said:

If you don't understand that then of course you feel the way you do. It's completely understandable.

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You have not shown that your bold empty claim "Jesus is truth" is anything other than a bold empty claim.
Which is comical given your standing order for proof...

DavidFirth said:

You'd do well to pay some attention to Mr. Cromwell. If you can't read Genesis and see "the fall of man" for yourself then your reading comprehension needs work. End of conversation. Have a good day.

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No, it's not the end of the conversation.

You've already chipped someone else for imposing their own views on the text of the bible, yet here you're doing exactly the same.

You have totally failed to point to any part of Genesis that mentions the fall of man; or disobedience; or sin; or death entering the world.

And the reason you haven't done so is that they're not there.

You're imposing your own pretendings on a text that says nothing of the sort, then running away like Meyer Dembski and Campbell instead of addressing the matter in hand, instead of offering the slightest evidence.

Looks like hypocrisy is the creo way, doesn't it.

Gilgamesh is not a very good design. It's a cube that would roll around the ocean like a volleyball.
The ark is more like a boat. And so it makes more sense that Gilgameshis a corruption of Noah and not the other way round

whirlingmerc said:

Gilgamesh is not a very good design. It's a cube that would roll around the ocean like a volleyball.
The ark is more like a boat. And so it makes more sense that Gilgameshis a corruption of Noah and not the other way round

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One, the ark is described as a long rectangle. The idea that the ark looked like a boat is about as biblical as a white, skinny Jesus. It's artistic license.
Two, it wouldn't be more stable. Even though the ark is too small to host the world's species, it's also too large for pitch adhesive to hold together gopher wood without metal banding, no matter what small scale 'tests' creationists try to do.
Third, there is no Noah account older than Gilgamesh. No reason to assume the tale is older especially since Sumerian culture is older than Hebrew.

ADigitalArtist said:

One, the ark is described as a long rectangle. The idea that the ark looked like a boat is about as biblical as a white, skinny Jesus. It's artistic license.
Two, it wouldn't be more stable. Even though the ark is too small to host the world's species, it's also too large for pitch adhesive to hold together gopher wood without metal banding, no matter what small scale 'tests' creationists try to do.
Third, there is no Noah account older than Gilgamesh. No reason to assume the tale is older especially since Sumerian culture is older than Hebrew.

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The Ark is never described as a Boat, the Hebrew word for Boat is 'Abarah', Ship it is Oniyah.

The word for Ark is 'Tebah' , the Septuagint word is κιβωτὸν ( Kibotus), derives from 'Kybos' meaning cube and cognate with Arabic 'Kaba' ( Cube ) and as a Proto-Indo European root ' keu(b)- 'to bend, to turn '

The story of Noah's Ark thus likely an adaption of the Greek myth of Deucalion.
Deucalion - Wikipedia

Berossus (3rd Century BCE) was the first Hellenistic writer to translate Babylonian myths into Greek, which included the Myth of Atrahasis

The Myth of Deucalion dates to the 3rd century BCE , Since Noah's Ark is deriving from a Greek source, then it's Post-3rd Century BCE

The story of Deucalion, is based on Atrahasis but a retelling of the Argonaut.

Argo-Naut ( Sailers of the Argo)
- Naut, from 'Nau meaning Boat
- Argo, similar to Latin 'Arca' ( where we get Ark).

'Noah' then derives from the Greek 'Naut' (Sailer or boat), so Arca-Nau or Nau-Ark (Noah's Ark), so Noah's Ark was the Argonaut, it's destination was Colchis (Armenia), which was part of the Kingdom of Ururtu, were-as the destination of Noah's Ark was Ararat (=Ururtu ).

That pretty much confirms it, Hebrew adaption of a Greek adaption of the Myth of Atrahasis used as a parallel with the Argonaut, itself a retelling of the Odysseus and the myth of Perseus.

whirlingmerc said:

Gilgamesh is not a very good design. It's a cube that would roll around the ocean like a volleyball.
The ark is more like a boat. And so it makes more sense that Gilgameshis a corruption of Noah and not the other way round

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I don't recall coming on a description of his boat. Where does it say that Uta-napishti's boat was a cube?

The timeline goes like this:

The earliest flood story we know starts in (non-Semitic) Sumer in the 3rd millennium BCE (or even, conceivably, earlier).

It's passed to their neighbors the (Semitic) Akkadians and written down by 2000 BCE.

Thence it's passed to the (Semitic) Babylonians.

Thence out of Mesopotamia to the (Semitic) Canaanites.

Yahweh arises as a god in the Canaanite pantheon ~1500 BCE.

The earliest parts of the Tanakh aren't written down till ~1000 BCE.

So I don't see any room for the Noah version to be older than the Sumerian. The gap is likely a thousand years or so.

Magus said:

The problem is that we don't have any Original Manuscript of any Book in the Bible, that is why Hebrew Gematria is flawed and inaccurate.

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Did you hear about the Dead Sea Scrolls?

That in the finding these Scrolls they found the whole Scroll of Isaiah, which dates back to 750 BC. Along with many other Scrolls of the old and new testaments.

The Isaiah Scroll is now in the Museum in Jerusalem and is word per word what is in Isaiah in the bible.

Altfish said:

The truth of Noah's Ark has been known for a while. It is a fairy tale written by dessert nomads some 2000 years BC.
Humanist does mean atheist, yes. I believe the Bible is indeed a work of fiction as are all 'holy' books.
There is more fact in Harry Potter or Lord of the Rings

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So you say, without any evidence of your own to prove what you say.

There is alot archaeologist scientist diggings evidence that proves the bible to be true.
Back in 1942 over at the Dead Sea, there was found what has come to be known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Among these Scrolls were found the Isaiah Scroll, which is now in the Museum in Jerusalem, that dates back to 750 bc.and is word per word, of Isaiah in the bible.
And in these Scrolls were found many of other Scrolls of the old and new testaments.
And the archaeologist scientist are still finding many artifacts.that reinforce the bible.
That even scientist have found the Red Sea crossing of Moses and Israel to be true.

That divers went down to the Sea floor and found many chariots and bones of horses and human bones, that proves the Red Sea crossing of Moses and Israel in the bible to be true.
They even found a stone pillar by the Red Sea crossing, having the name of Moses and Solomon name, indicating the place of crossing.king Solomon put the stone there to mark the Red Sea crossing of Israel.

If you had study, read the Bible you would find all these things being recorded. To indicate all these things that are being found are true. And line up to what is written in the bible.

But yet with all these findings, people still want to call the bible as some fairy tale.

By this shows their ignorance of not being able to handle the truth of the archaeologist scientist findings.

Book of Isaiah debunks Christianity, so not sure why you focus on that book, the oldest layer of Isaiah, are the verses between 40 and 55, this is older then the myth of Moses itself.

Why then does 'Red Sea' not appear anywhere in the Hebrew , only in the Septuagint, it translates as 'Red Sea', the Hebrew word for the colour Red is 'Adom , 'Red Sea', would appear in Hebrew as 'The Sea of Adam.

The Hebrew that is used is 'Suph' and according to Book of Joshua, the river was dried up, most likely drained, based on Isaiah 44:27.

Isaiah 44:27
That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:
Isaiah 44:28
That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure

The Hebrew 'the deep', is 'tsuwlah' , is similar to θάλασσα (Thalassa) meaning Sea.

Joshua 2:10
For we have heard how the LORD dried up the water of the Red sea for you,

The rivers 'dried up' , exodus states it 'parted '., which is it ?

Revelation 16:12
And the sixth angel poured out his vial upon the great river Euphrates; and the water thereof was dried up, that the way of the kings of the east might be prepared.

Revelation talks about the Fall of Babylon ( attributed to King Cyrus), then it claims the River Euphrates will dry up, to make way for the kings of the 'EAST' ( the Persian Kings)

King Cyrus did in fact dry up the River Euphrates, confirmed by Herodotus.

Herodotus 1.191
and when he came to the lake, Cyrus dealt with it and with the river just as had the Babylonian queen: drawing off the river by a canal into the lake, which was a marsh he made the stream sink until its former channel could be forded.

'Marsh, the Greek is 'ἕλος , a translation of סוּף (Suph) in 'Yam-Suph' that is mistranslated as 'Red Sea';

They you go, the origin of the parting or drying of the red sea. King Cyrus did it.

Faithofchristian said:

The Isaiah Scroll is now in the Museum in Jerusalem and is word per word what is in Isaiah in the bible.

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Yep, and it is impressive to see in person. Just before the end of the viewing in the evening, or if there's any threat, the entire cylinder that the scroll goes around sinks into solid granite below ground level.

BTW, the Shrine of the Book than contains Isaiah and many other scriptures, uses natural air conditioning as water is sprayed on the roof during the day and allowed to evaporate, which cools the building.

Just a note, however, that the DSS version of Isaiah is not the original.

Faithofchristian said:

That divers went down to the Sea floor and found many chariots and bones of horses and human bones, that proves the Red Sea crossing of Moses and Israel in the bible to be true.
They even found a stone pillar by the Red Sea crossing, having the name of Moses and Solomon name, indicating the place of crossing.king Solomon put the stone there to make the Red Sea crossing of Israel.

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This is just a hoax that's been perpetrated for years. See Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea Hoax Persists

Faithofchristian said:

So you say, without any evidence of your own to prove what you say.

There is alot archaeologist scientist diggings evidence that proves the bible to be true.
Back in 1942 over at the Dead Sea, there was found what has come to be known as the Dead Sea Scrolls. Among these Scrolls were found the Isaiah Scroll, which is now in the Museum in Jerusalem, that dates back to 750 bc.and is word per word, of Isaiah in the bible.
And in these Scrolls were found many of other Scrolls of the old and new testaments.
And the archaeologist scientist are still finding many artifacts.that reinforce the bible.
That even scientist have found the Red Sea crossing of Moses and Israel to be true.

That divers went down to the Sea floor and found many chariots and bones of horses and human bones, that proves the Red Sea crossing of Moses and Israel in the bible to be true.
They even found a stone pillar by the Red Sea crossing, having the name of Moses and Solomon name, indicating the place of crossing.king Solomon put the stone there to make the Red Sea crossing of Israel.

If you had study, read the Bible you would find all these things being recorded. To indicate all these things that are being found are true. And line up to what is written in the bible.

But yet with all these findings, people still want to call the bible as some fairy tale.

By this shows their ignorance of not being able to handle the truth of the archaeologist scientist findings.

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There is absolutely NO evidence of a world wide flood. That is what the Noah's Ark story is all about.

Altfish said:

There is absolutely NO evidence of a world wide flood. That is what the Noah's Ark story is all about.

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You have no idea, You go to the flood of Noah's, as all other people do.

Not realizing that there was two floods that came upon the earth.

Everyone including yourself thinks the flood of Noah's was the only flood.

There were two floods of water that came upon the earth.

Just like creationists claim that everything started at Adam and Eve. Because this is what they have been taught.

Everything did not start with Adam and Eve.
The earth was already here before Adam and Eve.
The creationists will claim the earth as being 6000 years old.
But the earth is alot older, more like Millions to Billions of years old.