Where have all the miracles gone?

may · Jul 13, 2006

sojourner said:
You don't call multiple bypass, LASIK, total hip replacement, kidney transplant, brain surgery, and psychotherapy miraculous healing??? You don't call cardiac resuscitation a resurrection??? We would all be either gods or magicians to the Biblical writers.

mankind trys his best under a bad situation, but when Jesus heals all mankind in the future , it will be permanant healing and then no one will get sick .............
And no resident will say: "I am sick." Isaiah 33;24

(Revelation 21:4) And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."................... yes the former things will pass away ,we will no longer need all of the things you mentioned ,in fact we will not need to go to a funeral because there wont be any
He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it]. Isaiah 25;8
(Revelation 20:14) And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire

sojourner · Jul 13, 2006

may said:
mankind trys his best under a bad situation, but when Jesus heals all mankind in the future , it will be permanant healing and then no one will get sick .............
And no resident will say: "I am sick." Isaiah 33;24

(Revelation 21:4) And he will wipe out every tear from their eyes, and death will be no more, neither will mourning nor outcry nor pain be anymore. The former things have passed away."................... yes the former things will pass away ,we will no longer need all of the things you mentioned ,in fact we will not need to go to a funeral because there wont be any
He will actually swallow up death forever, and the Sovereign Lord Jehovah will certainly wipe the tears from all faces. And the reproach of his people he will take away from all the earth, for Jehovah himself has spoken [it]. Isaiah 25;8
(Revelation 20:14) And death and Ha´des were hurled into the lake of fire. This means the second death, the lake of fire

That doesn't answer my question. I'd be willing to bet that, even after Jesus raised Jairus' daughter and Lazarus, they both died again at some point. Miracles are not necessarily eternal in nature. Miracles don't particularly have anything to do with eschatology. Miracles are the interjection of God's power into everyday life, especially in such a way as to inspire wonder, or to pull us up short, or to appear to defy the natural order of things.

A man with cataracts or a detached retina cannot see. A procedure (LASIK, or cataract removal, etc.) renders him well. Jesus performed just such a procedure on a blind man by rubbing mud in his eyes. I see both as miracle. So what if modern science can explain it? A man was blind and now he sees! Science cannot diminish the miracle of eyesight.

bradleykavin · Jul 14, 2006

i see and hear of miracles all the time. a kid born in the ghetto surrounded by violence refuses drugs and gangs, and works hard into college. A child who wants to give up so bad in something just because it is difficult, decides to tough it out and finds out the result of hard work is amazing. I see the miracle of love, the ability for a two people that may be completely different in personality, to find an understanding of eachother and be so close they act and think as if they are one person. My belief is that the water into wine, walking on water, and so forth, are myths. Legends and or storys to give the bible, flavor. None the less, teachings in the bible are good, for the most part. But doesnt the idea of your savior being able to do magic things sound a lot better than him just giving a lot of good teachings and life lessons? A miracle doesnt involve levetation or magic, but something that is unexpected and takes hard work, and determination. Movies define a miracle as superhuman, when really, the ability to create a miracle is very much, in my opinion, in all of humanities grasp. just my thought...

bradleykavin · Jul 14, 2006

i see and hear of miracles all the time. a kid born in the ghetto surrounded by violence refuses drugs and gangs, and works hard into college. A child who wants to give up so bad in something just because it is difficult, decides to tough it out and finds out the result of hard work is amazing. I see the miracle of love, the ability for a two people that may be completely different in personality, to find an understanding of eachother and be so close they act and think as if they are one person. My belief is that the water into wine, walking on water, and so forth, are myths. Legends and or storys to give the bible, flavor. None the less, teachings in the bible are good, for the most part. But doesnt the idea of your savior being able to do magic things sound a lot better than him just giving a lot of good teachings and life lessons? A miracle doesnt involve levetation or magic, but something that is unexpected and takes hard work, and determination. Movies define a miracle as superhuman, when really, the ability to create a miracle is very much, in my opinion, in all of humanities grasp. just my thought...

bradleykavin · Jul 14, 2006

i see and hear of miracles all the time. a kid born in the ghetto surrounded by violence refuses drugs and gangs, and works hard into college. A child who wants to give up so bad in something just because it is difficult, decides to tough it out and finds out the result of hard work is amazing. I see the miracle of love, the ability for a two people that may be completely different in personality, to find an understanding of eachother and be so close they act and think as if they are one person. My belief is that the water into wine, walking on water, and so forth, are myths. Legends and or storys to give the bible, flavor. None the less, teachings in the bible are good, for the most part. But doesnt the idea of your savior being able to do magic things sound a lot better than him just giving a lot of good teachings and life lessons? A miracle doesnt involve levetation or magic, but something that is unexpected and takes hard work, and determination. Movies define a miracle as superhuman, when really, the ability to create a miracle is very much, in my opinion, in all of humanities grasp. just my thought...

may · Jul 14, 2006

sojourner said:
That doesn't answer my question. I'd be willing to bet that, even after Jesus raised Jairus' daughter and Lazarus, they both died again at some point. Miracles are not necessarily eternal in nature. Miracles don't particularly have anything to do with eschatology. Miracles are the interjection of God's power into everyday life, especially in such a way as to inspire wonder, or to pull us up short, or to appear to defy the natural order of things.

A man with cataracts or a detached retina cannot see. A procedure (LASIK, or cataract removal, etc.) renders him well. Jesus performed just such a procedure on a blind man by rubbing mud in his eyes. I see both as miracle. So what if modern science can explain it? A man was blind and now he sees! Science cannot diminish the miracle of eyesight.

Jesus did not need to have years and years of research and trial and error to perform miracles, it was instant, and the power to do those things came from his father Jehovah God. yes as you mentioned those who he resurrected did die again . but he was just showing on a small scale how Jehovah will heal on a large scale at the time in the future under Gods kingdom goverment. those miracles served a purpose at the time , to prove that he was the son of God. and his Father Jehovah was working through him.

Willamena · Jul 14, 2006

A miracle is something --an event or other meaningful thing --that moves our spirit. It changes us a little, inside, psychologically, so that we come away with a new understanding of ourselves. Whatever explanation science or rationality comes up to explain the phenomenon observed, the real miracle is understood by what happens to us on the inside. If nothing happens there, then there was no miracle for you.

I think we don't hear about them anymore because either people don't tell the news media about them, or the news either doesn't report them (they're not important enough) or avoids reporting them for fear of ridicule and scorn.

ProfLogic · Jul 14, 2006

Arrow said:
This question came from Sunstone's thread and another thread done by Polaris. In the Bible, there are many miracles that have been performed, walking on water, water to wine, and dead people coming back to life. However, when was the last time anybody has heard of or seen someone performing a miracle? (Bruce Almighty does not count.) I hear of people having visions of things, but of course that cannot be "documented." I would like to know why we do not hear about miracles more often, if they do in fact exist.

Thank you all for your input.
-Arrow

Simple answer, the miracles never happened in the first place. They were purely ones suggestion. Life changing events are not miracles, they are just facts of life. Give credit to humanity for these events and not to an awareness that claimed it is the one god.

Booko · Jul 14, 2006

may said:
The miracles of bygone daysmiraculous healings and resurrectionsno longer occur. But we have reason for confidence that in Gods upcoming new world, such miracles will take place again, this time on a global scale. They will bring permanent relief and will go beyond our present ability to comprehend.

Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. People are resurrected in hospitals all the time. My father was, once.

As for miraculous healings, I wouldn't count those out either. And no, I don't mean the ones you see on teevee.

joeboonda · Jul 14, 2006

Miracles in the Bible were very few and far between and always temporary. Only about 3 different times did they occur and there are hundreds of years and many people in the BIble where no miracles ever happenned. One group of signs was with the Exodus, the pillar of fire, pillar of cloud, the manna, etc. and then these stopped. Then during the ministry of Elijah and Elisha to bring Israel out of Baal worship. Then last were the miracles of Jesus and the Apostles confirming the truth of the gospel. They did not have miracles all the time, there are a few other instances where God showed his power, but those were the three biggest groups of miracles. Not that God cannot or may not perform a miracle for someone, but we shouldn't expect miracles all the time, they wouldn't be miracles then, would they.

When a miracle did happen in the Bible, it wasn't, oh, my back was hurting and now it doesn't, doubtful that anything happenned, when it happenned in the Bible, everyone saw it, knew the person who had been lame or blind or a leper etc. they were very obvious, signs so we would know what they spoke was of God.

may · Jul 16, 2006

Booko said:
Oh, I wouldn't be so sure about that. People are resurrected in hospitals all the time. My father was, once.

As for miraculous healings, I wouldn't count those out either. And no, I don't mean the ones you see on teevee.

was he dead for 4 days the same as Lazarus was? in fact the bible tells us that he had perhaps even started to smell. now that is a miracal
Martha, the sister of the deceased, said to him: "Lord, by now he must smell, for it is four days..............John 11;39

sojourner · Jul 17, 2006

may said:
Jesus did not need to have years and years of research and trial and error to perform miracles, it was instant, and the power to do those things came from his father Jehovah God. yes as you mentioned those who he resurrected did die again . but he was just showing on a small scale how Jehovah will heal on a large scale at the time in the future under Gods kingdom goverment. those miracles served a purpose at the time , to prove that he was the son of God. and his Father Jehovah was working through him.

So, are you saying that God only works miracles through Jesus or the prophets, and not through "ordinary" human beings? Are you saying that the accomplishments of humanity cannot be seen or catagorized as miracles?

may · Jul 17, 2006

sojourner said:
So, are you saying that God only works miracles through Jesus or the prophets, and not through "ordinary" human beings? Are you saying that the accomplishments of humanity cannot be seen or catagorized as miracles?

the miracles died with the first century apostles it is all trial and error at the momment, man does his best , but there will come a time when no resident will say i am sick.........
And no resident will say: "I am sick Isaiah 33;24......... why ? because Jesus will have been given the power from his father Jehovah to heal on a large scale , even the power to resurrect the dead ...yes humans have a brain that we can use for the good of man. but man was not created to rule himself so we are doing the best we can at the momment.
I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.... Jeremiah 10;23 we are left to our own doing at the momment . but when Gods heavenly kingdom takes full control of earths affairs .then we shall see many grand blessings. no more sickness being just one of them

sojourner · Jul 18, 2006

may said:
the miracles died with the first century apostles it is all trial and error at the momment, man does his best , but there will come a time when no resident will say i am sick.........
And no resident will say: "I am sick Isaiah 33;24......... why ? because Jesus will have been given the power from his father Jehovah to heal on a large scale , even the power to resurrect the dead ...yes humans have a brain that we can use for the good of man. but man was not created to rule himself so we are doing the best we can at the momment.
I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step.... Jeremiah 10;23 we are left to our own doing at the momment . but when Gods heavenly kingdom takes full control of earths affairs .then we shall see many grand blessings. no more sickness being just one of them

Why? What is the basis for that argument?

Are miracles really "dead?" Or has humanity become jaded to their presence?

Happier · Jul 18, 2006

beckysoup61 said:
Because people claim they aren't miracles. That they are done by science, or that in fact, they are just not real.

I've seen miracles in my life, but would prefer to keep them sacred for just that reason.

:yes:

Sorry for jumping in here without reading through the rest, but I just wanted to respond to beckysoup: Good post!

Also:

All things have been delivered to Me by My Father, and no one knows the Son except the Father. Nor does anyone know the Father except the Son, and the one to whom the Son chooses to reveal Him. Matthew 11. 27

God is sovereign, and reveals himself through miracles or by revelation to "whom the Son chooses".

may · Jul 19, 2006

sojourner said:
Why? What is the basis for that argument?

Are miracles really "dead?" Or has humanity become jaded to their presence?

The Bible is explicit in reporting that miracles occurred in bygone daysmiraculous healings, resurrections, and the likeyet it is just as explicit in explaining that such miracles no longer take place.

Various kinds of miracles are mentioned in the Bible. (Exodus 7:19-21; 1 Kings 17:1-7; 18:22-38; 2 Kings 5:1-14; Matthew 8:24-27; Luke 17:11-19; John 2:1-11; 9:1-7) Many of these miracles served to identify Jesus as the Messiah, and they proved that he had Gods backing. Jesus early followers displayed miraculous gifts, such as speaking in tongues and discernment of inspired utterances. (Acts 2:5-12; 1 Corinthians 12:28-31) Such miraculous gifts were useful for the Christian congregation during its infancy. How so?
Well, copies of the Scriptures were few. Usually, only the rich possessed scrolls or books of any sort. In pagan lands, there was no knowledge of the Bible or of its Author, Jehovah. Christian teaching had to be conveyed by word of mouth. The miraculous gifts were useful in showing that God was using the Christian congregation.
But Paul explained that these gifts would pass away once they were no longer needed. "Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with."1 Corinthians 13:8-10.

sojourner · Jul 19, 2006

may said:
The Bible is explicit in reporting that miracles occurred in bygone daysmiraculous healings, resurrections, and the likeyet it is just as explicit in explaining that such miracles no longer take place.

Various kinds of miracles are mentioned in the Bible. (Exodus 7:19-21; 1 Kings 17:1-7; 18:22-38; 2 Kings 5:1-14; Matthew 8:24-27; Luke 17:11-19; John 2:1-11; 9:1-7) Many of these miracles served to identify Jesus as the Messiah, and they proved that he had Gods backing. Jesus early followers displayed miraculous gifts, such as speaking in tongues and discernment of inspired utterances. (Acts 2:5-12; 1 Corinthians 12:28-31) Such miraculous gifts were useful for the Christian congregation during its infancy. How so?
Well, copies of the Scriptures were few. Usually, only the rich possessed scrolls or books of any sort. In pagan lands, there was no knowledge of the Bible or of its Author, Jehovah. Christian teaching had to be conveyed by word of mouth. The miraculous gifts were useful in showing that God was using the Christian congregation.
But Paul explained that these gifts would pass away once they were no longer needed. "Whether there are gifts of prophesying, they will be done away with; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will be done away with. For we have partial knowledge and we prophesy partially; but when that which is complete arrives, that which is partial will be done away with."1 Corinthians 13:8-10.

Where? Cite examples, plz.

And some of them seem to be done out of sheer compassion.

Some people do those things today...

How do we know they're "no longer needed?"

may · Jul 20, 2006

sojourner said:
Where? Cite examples, plz.

And some of them seem to be done out of sheer compassion.

Some people do those things today...

How do we know they're "no longer needed?"

the bible is full of them look up the verses in my last post. and the bible also tells us that the gifts would come to an end. its all in the bible , i have looked and now i know the truth . i nolonger need to question because the bible is quite clear

sojourner · Jul 20, 2006

may said:
the bible is full of them look up the verses in my last post. and the bible also tells us that the gifts would come to an end. its all in the bible , i have looked and now i know the truth . i nolonger need to question because the bible is quite clear

None of those verses speak to why miracles no longer take place. If you're going to take an exegetical stand, you might take the time to cite the passages of your exegesis, please, so that others can make an educated argument.

"When you question training, you only train yourself in asking questions." -- The Sphinx

God gave us a mind with which to think and discern. Questioning is a valid and important (one might say "indispensible") aspect of spiritual growth. The "God said it, I believe it, that settles it" argument just doesn't work very well, because it only serves to blind us to deeper perception and to dismiss other perspectives.

You maintain that the Bible says that miracles no longer occur. That's a pretty hefty statement to make without source citations. Plus, you still have not answered my question about the miraculous that is evident in the sometimes (seemingly) simplest of human endeavors, if one only takes the time to take notice of the spiritual underpinnings present in those endeavors.

SoyLeche · Jul 20, 2006

sojourner said:
"When you question training, you only train yourself in asking questions." -- The Sphinx

"When you can balance a tack hammer on your head you can head off your foe with a balanced attack" -- The Sphinx

I love that movie!!!

Where have all the miracles gone?

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