Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
No, we don't baptize dead people.
Let's start with the fourth Article of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It states, "We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, repentance; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and fourth, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost." This Article of Faith is important to our discussion.
As some people on RF know, we Latter-day Saints believe that (1) Baptism is a sacred ordinance required of everyone; (2) Baptisms must be performed by immersion by one who has been given the authority to do so, (3) When a person dies, his spirit leaves his physical body but does not cease to exist, (4) millions have died without receiving this ordinance, and (5) God loves all of His children equally and has provided a way for everyone who has ever lived to receive this ordinance prior to the Last Judgment.
Looking at each of these five points in greater detail...
(1) Baptism is a sacred ordinance (some would refer to it as a "sacrament") required of everyone who has ever lived. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ is recorded as having said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." He actually went so far as to stress that "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." To further emphasize the need for baptism, Jesus Christ went to John the Baptist and asked that he baptize Him. If you will recall, John's response was to ask, "I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?" And Jesus' response was, "Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." We have clear evidence for the importance of baptism. It is not optional for us; it was not even optional for the one individual who has ever lived who was without sin.
(2) Baptisms must be performed by immersion by one who has been given the authority to do so. The Apostle Paul's words in Ephesians 4:5 that there should be only, "one Lord, one faith, [and] one baptism." When Jesus established His Church, He called and ordained specific individuals, giving them the authority to perform certain functions, including the saving ordinance of baptism. We Latter-day Saints do not believe that anyone who wishes to baptize someone else has the authority to do so. This authority must be passed down from one person who already holds it to someone else. John the Baptist held the proper authority to baptize, which is why Jesus specifically went to him.
(3) When a person dies, his spirit leaves his physical body but does not cease to exist. It goes to the Spirit World where it will reside until the resurrection of all mankind, at which time it will rejoin the physical body it once inhabited, that body having been renewed, restored to a perfect state and made immortal. The Spirit World in spoken of in the scriptures by two names: Paradise and Prison. It is referred to by both terms because it is both things. To the righteous, it is a place of peace and rest, but to the wicked, it is a Prison, a place where they will be tormented with guilt for the way in which they lived their lives. As the spirits of the deceased await the resurrection of their physical bodies, they continue to learn and grow spiritually. They also retain the free will given to them by God when they came to earth to experience mortality. Those who did not have the opportunity to hear or understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ while they were on earth, will have that chance while in the Spirit World. Jesus himself will not be there, as He is now with His Father in Heaven. But others, those who already have the knowledge of our Father's Plan of Salvation, will teach them and give them the opportunity to accept and take advantage of the gospel message. Once a person comes to realize the significance of Jesus Christ's Atonement on his behalf and is sincerely repentant of his sins, he has fulfilled the first two principles of the Gospel (as outlined in the fourth Article of Faith). He is now on his way to being a recipient of the grace offered to all by Jesus Christ.
(4) Millions have died without receiving this ordinance or having received it but not by the prescribed means (immersion) or by someone who had been given the proper authority to perform it. Many lived prior to when Jesus did. Many others have lived since then, but in parts of the world where Christianity was not known. Some live today in places where converting to Christianity is a capital offense. And finally, for reasons known only to God, some have simply not been able to grasp the truth when it was presented to them. They simply chose a different path, one that was probably right for them.
(5) God loves all of His children equally and has provided a way for everyone who has ever lived to receive this ordinance prior to the Last Judgment.It goes without saying that baptism is an earthly ordinance. It would be quite impossible to immerse a spirit in water. Going back to point #1, though, baptism is a required ordinance for entry into the Kingdom of God. Those spirits who accept the Gospel message while in the Spirit World have completed the first two steps towards receiving the Savior's gift of salvation. But without the help of someone on earth, they can go no further.
Hebrews 11:39-40 speaks of those whose faith was strong and who despite not having heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, were good people who lived essentially worthy lives, “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”
Just as Jesus Christ atoned for our sins, He has given us, the living, the opportunity of doing something to help those who went before us. As this passage explains, God has blessed us with greater knowledge than they had and has given us the privilege of helping them reach a goal they could not otherwise reach – the fulness of salvation and eternal life in the presence of God. As in ancient times, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practice vicarious baptism for our deceased ancestors who died without having received this ordinance. I can, and have, stood in as a proxy for someone who is dead, and have been baptized on their behalf.
In 1 Corinthians 15:29, Paul used the practice of baptism for the dead as an argument to support the reality of the resurrection of us all. In referring to the members of Christ’s Church who were privileged to perform proxy baptisms (for not all are), he asked, “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Many people make the mistake of assuming we believe that we are surreptitiously seeking to force our beliefs on those who have no choice in the matter. Nothing could possibly be further from the truth. We have no way of knowing which of the spirits awaiting the resurrection will be receptive to the message they hear. We are baptized on behalf of as many of them as we can possibly identify. Their free will is every bit as operative in the Spirit World as it was during their mortal lives. Should the choose to accept this ordinance done for them, most likely by one of their descendents, it will be as if they had been baptized while they were here on earth. Should they reject it, it will be considered null and void. We do this work out of a genuine love and concern for those who cannot do it for themselves, and not for any other reason.
At any rate, that’s the doctrine as we practice it. We believed it was revealed to latter-day prophets that this work was to be done, and we are grateful to be able to do it. I’m sure any of the LDS posters on RF will be happy to respond to any additional questions on the subject.
I've been asked this question (or a variation of it) two or three times in just the past couple of weeks, so I'd like to address it here for the benefit of any who may be interested. I was going to put it on the Latter-day Saints forum, but eventually decided to put it in a debate forum after all. It’s something I feel strongly about, and feel prepared to debate, if that’s where my comments lead.
Let's start with the fourth Article of Faith of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. It states, "We believe that the first principles and ordinances of the Gospel are: first, faith in the Lord Jesus Christ; second, repentance; third, baptism by immersion for the remission of sins; and fourth, the laying on of hands for the gift of the Holy Ghost." This Article of Faith is important to our discussion.
As some people on RF know, we Latter-day Saints believe that (1) Baptism is a sacred ordinance required of everyone; (2) Baptisms must be performed by immersion by one who has been given the authority to do so, (3) When a person dies, his spirit leaves his physical body but does not cease to exist, (4) millions have died without receiving this ordinance, and (5) God loves all of His children equally and has provided a way for everyone who has ever lived to receive this ordinance prior to the Last Judgment.
Looking at each of these five points in greater detail...
(1) Baptism is a sacred ordinance (some would refer to it as a "sacrament") required of everyone who has ever lived. In the New Testament, Jesus Christ is recorded as having said, "Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God." He actually went so far as to stress that "he that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned." To further emphasize the need for baptism, Jesus Christ went to John the Baptist and asked that he baptize Him. If you will recall, John's response was to ask, "I have need to be baptized of thee, and comest thou to me?" And Jesus' response was, "Suffer it to be so now: for thus it becometh us to fulfil all righteousness." We have clear evidence for the importance of baptism. It is not optional for us; it was not even optional for the one individual who has ever lived who was without sin.
(2) Baptisms must be performed by immersion by one who has been given the authority to do so. The Apostle Paul's words in Ephesians 4:5 that there should be only, "one Lord, one faith, [and] one baptism." When Jesus established His Church, He called and ordained specific individuals, giving them the authority to perform certain functions, including the saving ordinance of baptism. We Latter-day Saints do not believe that anyone who wishes to baptize someone else has the authority to do so. This authority must be passed down from one person who already holds it to someone else. John the Baptist held the proper authority to baptize, which is why Jesus specifically went to him.
(3) When a person dies, his spirit leaves his physical body but does not cease to exist. It goes to the Spirit World where it will reside until the resurrection of all mankind, at which time it will rejoin the physical body it once inhabited, that body having been renewed, restored to a perfect state and made immortal. The Spirit World in spoken of in the scriptures by two names: Paradise and Prison. It is referred to by both terms because it is both things. To the righteous, it is a place of peace and rest, but to the wicked, it is a Prison, a place where they will be tormented with guilt for the way in which they lived their lives. As the spirits of the deceased await the resurrection of their physical bodies, they continue to learn and grow spiritually. They also retain the free will given to them by God when they came to earth to experience mortality. Those who did not have the opportunity to hear or understand the Gospel of Jesus Christ while they were on earth, will have that chance while in the Spirit World. Jesus himself will not be there, as He is now with His Father in Heaven. But others, those who already have the knowledge of our Father's Plan of Salvation, will teach them and give them the opportunity to accept and take advantage of the gospel message. Once a person comes to realize the significance of Jesus Christ's Atonement on his behalf and is sincerely repentant of his sins, he has fulfilled the first two principles of the Gospel (as outlined in the fourth Article of Faith). He is now on his way to being a recipient of the grace offered to all by Jesus Christ.
(4) Millions have died without receiving this ordinance or having received it but not by the prescribed means (immersion) or by someone who had been given the proper authority to perform it. Many lived prior to when Jesus did. Many others have lived since then, but in parts of the world where Christianity was not known. Some live today in places where converting to Christianity is a capital offense. And finally, for reasons known only to God, some have simply not been able to grasp the truth when it was presented to them. They simply chose a different path, one that was probably right for them.
(5) God loves all of His children equally and has provided a way for everyone who has ever lived to receive this ordinance prior to the Last Judgment.It goes without saying that baptism is an earthly ordinance. It would be quite impossible to immerse a spirit in water. Going back to point #1, though, baptism is a required ordinance for entry into the Kingdom of God. Those spirits who accept the Gospel message while in the Spirit World have completed the first two steps towards receiving the Savior's gift of salvation. But without the help of someone on earth, they can go no further.
Hebrews 11:39-40 speaks of those whose faith was strong and who despite not having heard the Gospel of Jesus Christ, were good people who lived essentially worthy lives, “And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.”
Just as Jesus Christ atoned for our sins, He has given us, the living, the opportunity of doing something to help those who went before us. As this passage explains, God has blessed us with greater knowledge than they had and has given us the privilege of helping them reach a goal they could not otherwise reach – the fulness of salvation and eternal life in the presence of God. As in ancient times, members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints practice vicarious baptism for our deceased ancestors who died without having received this ordinance. I can, and have, stood in as a proxy for someone who is dead, and have been baptized on their behalf.
In 1 Corinthians 15:29, Paul used the practice of baptism for the dead as an argument to support the reality of the resurrection of us all. In referring to the members of Christ’s Church who were privileged to perform proxy baptisms (for not all are), he asked, “Else what shall they do which are baptized for the dead, if the dead rise not at all? why are they then baptized for the dead?
Many people make the mistake of assuming we believe that we are surreptitiously seeking to force our beliefs on those who have no choice in the matter. Nothing could possibly be further from the truth. We have no way of knowing which of the spirits awaiting the resurrection will be receptive to the message they hear. We are baptized on behalf of as many of them as we can possibly identify. Their free will is every bit as operative in the Spirit World as it was during their mortal lives. Should the choose to accept this ordinance done for them, most likely by one of their descendents, it will be as if they had been baptized while they were here on earth. Should they reject it, it will be considered null and void. We do this work out of a genuine love and concern for those who cannot do it for themselves, and not for any other reason.
At any rate, that’s the doctrine as we practice it. We believed it was revealed to latter-day prophets that this work was to be done, and we are grateful to be able to do it. I’m sure any of the LDS posters on RF will be happy to respond to any additional questions on the subject.
We don't baptize dead people!
