Contrary to Biblical History: Canaanites are alive and well

Glaurung · Jul 31, 2017

Bob the Unbeliever said:
Do try to keep up.

You're starting to go off the wall a little.

I do not care what you think about the biblical texts in question. The question is about what is written in those texts. The Bible never says that the Canaanites ceased to exist as an ethnic group. Ranting at me about your fears of imminent Christian theocracy, or the deity described in the texts has no relevance. Perhaps you should take your own advice.

Grandliseur · Jul 31, 2017

sayak83 said:
Ancient DNA offers clues to the Canaanites’ fate

For the first time, scientists have deciphered the complete genetic instruction manuals of Canaanites. By comparing five Canaanite genomes with those of other ancient and modern populations, the researchers identified the Canaanites’ ancestors and discovered their descendants, modern Lebanese people.

Researchers reconstructed the genomes of the 3,700-year-old remains of five Canaanites unearthed in Sidon.

The researchers also determined that modern Lebanese people can attribute about 93 percent of their ancestry to the Canaanites. The other 7 percent comes from Eurasians who probably arrived in the Levant 3,700 to 2,200 years ago.

Comparisons of these genomes with those of other ancient Eurasian peoples indicate that Canaanite ancestry was split roughly 50-50 between the early farmers who settled the Levant and immigrants of Iranian descent who arrived later, between 6,600 and 3,550 years ago.

Just goes to show... don't trust what old books tell you.

You get one poorly written article, and you are sooo ready to jump on anything that portrays the Bible negatively. They had jumbled up stuff mixing things from Abraham with things that took place at least 350 years later.

The Bible never claimed that all the Canaanites were killed.
Here is a quote from a Biblical encyclopedia type work:

"
Intermarriage with Canaanites still was a problem among the returned Israelites after the Babylonian exile (Ezr 9:1, 2), but the Canaanite kingdoms, including those of the Hittites, had evidently disintegrated under the impact of Syrian, Assyrian, and Babylonian aggression.
"

So, even so late as after the Babylonian exile, the Canaanites were still going strong though not as nation perhaps. So, if you have a lot of people showing themselves to be descendants of these - is neither against the Bible's teachings nor unexpected.

When atheists are so eager to sling mud, and listen to any idiot, as the say Pile it Higher and Deeper, who claims anything just because they can flash a PhD - it is sad for they accept nonsense just because it pleases their paradigm.

Kelly of the Phoenix · Jul 31, 2017

So it's not insulting to suggest they are bad at following God's orders?

Sleeppy · Jul 31, 2017

Jayhawker Soule said:
What I find rather sad is that an interesting scientific finding seems to have been shared, not because of what might be learned, but because someone felt that it demeaned a biblical narrative that the person never took the time to study.

Still, I was surprised to find the Canaanites located in Lebanon, and l look forward to further work in this area.

*A narrative that demeans itself..

Crypto2015 · Jul 31, 2017

The only thing this article proves is that very ignorant people can easily make a living as journalists. The Bible states very clearly that the Canaanite tribes were NOT destroyed by the Hebrews.

"Manasseh did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-shean and its villages, or Taanach and its villages, or the inhabitants of Dor and its villages, or the inhabitants of Ibleam and its villages, or the inhabitants of Megiddo and its villages, for the Canaanites persisted in dwelling in that land. When Israel grew strong, they put the Canaanites to forced labor, but did not drive them out completely. And Ephraim did not drive out the Canaanites who lived in Gezer, so the Canaanites lived in Gezer among them. Zebulun did not drive out the inhabitants of Kitron, or the inhabitants of Nahalol, so the Canaanites lived among them, but became subject to forced labor. Asher did not drive out the inhabitants of Acco, or the inhabitants of Sidon or of Ahlab or of Achzib or of Helbah or of Aphik or of Rehob, so the Asherites lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land, for they did not drive them out. Naphtali did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh, or the inhabitants of Beth-anath, so they lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land. Nevertheless, the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh and of Beth-anath became subject to forced labor for them. The Amorites pressed the people of Dan back into the hill country, for they did not allow them to come down to the plain. The Amorites persisted in dwelling in Mount Heres, in Aijalon, and in Shaalbim, but the hand of the house of Joseph rested heavily on them, and they became subject to forced labor. And the border of the Amorites ran from the ascent of Akrabbim, from Sela and upward." (Judges 1:27:34)

Etritonakin · Jul 31, 2017

That assumes that they had no relations with any outside their tribe.

The bible does not say to seek out people everywhere who might be of their bloodline.

It says nothing would be left breathing in their cities specifically -so any with their DNA elsewhere would remain

Also... God's instructions were not always followed. There are many examples of Israel being punished for warring contrary to God's instructions. Not sure if that applies here

Jayhawker Soule · Jul 31, 2017

Sleeppy said:
*A narrative that demeans itself..

I have absolutely no idea what this means.

Politesse · Jul 31, 2017

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
So it's not insulting to suggest they are bad at following God's orders?

It may well be. But it isn't, as anyone who has ever read it could tell you, an un-Biblical statement. That could well be seen the narrative theme of the entire history of Israel from Cairo to Babylon as retold by the HS; repeated attempts to perfect the covenant, with the disobedience of the people fouling up the works and bringing wrath and misfortune. God and God's Torah are perfect; God's people are flawed in executing their side of the bargain, and forever marred by their self-interest.

Magus · Jul 31, 2017

Herodotus only lists 'THREE' people living in Canaan.

1. Syrians
2. Phoenicians
3. Palestinians

Which one of these are the 'Jews ' ?

Jews contradict themselves, since 'Hebrew' is a Canaanite language, so if the Ancient 'Jews-Israelites-Hebrews' (they can't agree who they are) are speaking and writing in Canaanite and are worshiping Canaanite deities, Yahweh, Adonay, Eloah, then they must be Canaanites themselves.

Politesse · Jul 31, 2017

Magus said:
Herodotus only lists 'THREE' people living in Canaan.

1. Syrians
2. Phoenicians
3. Palestinians

Which one of these are the 'Jews ' ?

Jews contradict themselves, since 'Hebrew' is a Canaanite language, so if the Ancient 'Jews-Israelites-Hebrews' (they can't agree who they are) are speaking and writing in Canaanite and are worshiping Canaanite deities, Yahweh, Adonay, Eloah, then they must be Canaanites themselves.

Herodotus is also unaware of the existence of the Gulf of Aqaba, or any nation between Phoenicia and Assyria; his account is centered on those nations who had direct dealings with the Greeks, and is hardly authoritative for this region.

Magus · Jul 31, 2017

Politesse said:
Herodotus is also unaware of the existence of the Gulf of Aqaba, or any nation between Phoenicia and Assyria; his account is centred on those nations who had direct dealings with the Greeks, and is hardly authoritative for this region.

Herodotus lists all the nations under the Persian empire, that are split up into districts,

District V - The area from the town of Posidium as far as Egypt, omitting Arabian territory (which did not pay taxes). All Phoenicia, Palestine Syria and Cyprus.

DavidFirth · Jul 31, 2017

Bob the Unbeliever said:
And it also says that they don't. Apparently, when it was fabricated, nobody bothered with quality control, or Series Continuity.

Comic books do a better job...

Quote and post the verse that says they don't.

DavidFirth · Jul 31, 2017

Bob the Unbeliever said:
Actually? It does-- unless you allow that the bible's god is NOT universal and all-powerful, but is JUST a small TRIBAL god, who's SOLE dominion was over the tribe of Israel, and NO ONE ELSE?

Then and ONLY then can your statement above, be accurate.

Do try to keep up.

You're wrong about that. The Israelites did not destroy the Canaanites completely. They were supposed to possess a lot more land and conquer a lot more people than they did. They disobeyed God and went into slavery for it and their other sins under Nebuchednezzar.

DavidFirth · Jul 31, 2017

Crypto2015 said:
The only thing this article proves is that very ignorant people can easily make a living as journalists. The Bible states very clearly that the Canaanite tribes were NOT destroyed by the Hebrews.

"Manasseh did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-shean and its villages, or Taanach and its villages, or the inhabitants of Dor and its villages, or the inhabitants of Ibleam and its villages, or the inhabitants of Megiddo and its villages, for the Canaanites persisted in dwelling in that land. When Israel grew strong, they put the Canaanites to forced labor, but did not drive them out completely. And Ephraim did not drive out the Canaanites who lived in Gezer, so the Canaanites lived in Gezer among them. Zebulun did not drive out the inhabitants of Kitron, or the inhabitants of Nahalol, so the Canaanites lived among them, but became subject to forced labor. Asher did not drive out the inhabitants of Acco, or the inhabitants of Sidon or of Ahlab or of Achzib or of Helbah or of Aphik or of Rehob, so the Asherites lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land, for they did not drive them out. Naphtali did not drive out the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh, or the inhabitants of Beth-anath, so they lived among the Canaanites, the inhabitants of the land. Nevertheless, the inhabitants of Beth-shemesh and of Beth-anath became subject to forced labor for them. The Amorites pressed the people of Dan back into the hill country, for they did not allow them to come down to the plain. The Amorites persisted in dwelling in Mount Heres, in Aijalon, and in Shaalbim, but the hand of the house of Joseph rested heavily on them, and they became subject to forced labor. And the border of the Amorites ran from the ascent of Akrabbim, from Sela and upward." (Judges 1:27:34)

Thank you.

Magus · Jul 31, 2017

DavidFirth said:
You're wrong about that. The Israelites did not destroy the Canaanites completely. They were supposed to possess a lot more land and conquer a lot more people than they did. They disobeyed God and went into slavery for it and their other sins under Nebuchednezzar.

They where punished for not ethnic cleansing there own ethnic?

DavidFirth · Jul 31, 2017

Magus said:
They where punished for not ethnic cleansing there own ethnic?

They were punished for disobeying God. They did much worse things than refuse to eliminate the Canaanites.

God had mercy on them because He could have wiped them all out except one and made a great nation of that person.

Magus · Jul 31, 2017

DavidFirth said:
They were punished for disobeying God. They did much worse things than refuse to eliminate the Canaanites.

God had mercy on them because He could have wiped them all out except one and made a great nation of that person.

Since you literally believe everything without any evidence or logic at all, then Canaanites are punished because Mr Ham peeked into his dad's tent and accidentally saw his dad's Penis.

Genesis 9:22 - Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father.

Christian belief that Children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, should be severely punished for the odd behaviour of their great-great Parents , so Canaanites deserve to die cos Ham seen his dad's penis and why everyone deserves everlasting punishment in Hell fire cos Eve ate a fruit cos a talking snake said so.

Politesse · Jul 31, 2017

Magus said:
Herodotus lists all the nations under the Persian empire, that are split up into districts,

District V - The area from the town of Posidium as far as Egypt, omitting Arabian territory (which did not pay taxes). All Phoenicia, Palestine Syria and Cyprus.

And yet, his account of the Persian empire is extremely inaccurate, and the more so the further East one goes. Again, those peoples with whom the Greeks had dealings get more "time" in Herodotus, but he relies heavily on hearsay from soldiers and traders, and his view of life beyond the Mediterranean is very incomplete.

DavidFirth · Jul 31, 2017

Magus said:
Since you literally believe everything without any evidence or logic at all, then Canaanites are punished because Mr Ham peeked into his dad's tent and accidentally saw his dad's Penis.

Genesis 9:22 - Ham, the father of Canaan, saw the nakedness of his father.

Christian belief that Children, grandchildren, great-grandchildren, should be severely punished for the odd behaviour of their great-great Parents , so Canaanites deserve to die cos Ham seen his dad's penis and why everyone deserves everlasting punishment in Hell fire cos Eve ate a fruit cos a talking snake said so.

Are you stoned?

Magus · Jul 31, 2017

Politesse said:
And yet, his account of the Persian empire is extremely inaccurate, and the more so the further East one goes. Again, those peoples with whom the Greeks had dealings get more "time" in Herodotus, but he relies heavily on hearsay from soldiers and traders, and his view of life beyond the Mediterranean is very incomplete.

I have explained many of the myths in the Bible, using Herodotus alone, for example, the parting of the Red Sea ( Herodotus 1.191) , King Shishak ( Sesostris / Darius I ) and the original homeland of the Hebrews ( Iberia, Colchis) ) as well as the origin of Circumcision ( castration of Uranus).

Contrary to Biblical History: Canaanites are alive and well

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