• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

why a Trinity

syo

Well-Known Member
in orthodox christianity they believe God is a Trinity, meaning one God with three distinct faces. but why does God have three faces and not just one since he is one God? the answer is love. God is love and love has meaning only when there are many and not just one. father, son, and the holy spirit coexist harmoniously under the name of love and we ought to follow their example and live all as brothers and sisters in the name of God's love.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
in orthodox christianity they believe God is a Trinity, meaning one God with three distinct faces. but why does God have three faces and not just one since he is one God? the answer is love. God is love and love has meaning only when there are many and not just one. father, son, and the holy spirit coexist harmoniously under the name of love and we ought to follow their example and live all as brothers and sisters in the name of God's love.

Actually, it isn't three faces but we believe that one God exists in three persons. The rest of your post sounds accurate but I don't think God chooses to be a Trinity because "love has meaning only when there are many and not just one," although I don't disagree with the statement modified as,

Love has meaning only when there are more than one and not just one.
 
  • Like
Reactions: syo

Rival

se Dex me saut.
Staff member
Premium Member
That's quite an assumption, sport. It's also wrong.

God is the absolute best and His word is number one. That's the best "Christians can do now."
But this has nothing to do with a trinity.
 

PureX

Veteran Member
The answer is so simple that most Christians just can't grasp it.

There is only one God. But that God manifests apart from us, within us, and through us to each other. Hence, the three manifestation of one Divine Being. (The external, the internal, and the interactive.)
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
If they want to know they can just read about it in books that are plentiful and inexpensive like this one: Greek Orthodox Patrology It explains fairly well how these thoughts of the nature of God are developed. The discipline of Philosophy is used to try and analyze reality, and this happens over centuries.

A brief time-line of Christianity up to the 5th century probably goes like this:


  • Christianity appears, probably as a result of the destruction of the 3rd temple.
  • It is called The Way, and it seeks to bring about the utopia that is hoped for by the Jewish prophets.
  • It embraces all people as an extended family, but this extreme position is hard to maintain. The intensity slows down.
  • The world resists the full embrace, because people do not want to spend all of their time doing good deeds. People wonder whether the movement has failed, whether it needs to change or whether they should keep going with it as is.
  • The prophets say there will be glory everywhere, so some Christians begin to gather it up like manna. Some embrace Philosophy for this reason. Hence the Trinity which comes from a combination of Christian efforts and Greek Platonic thought.
  • The politicians continually try to take advantage of the good will of the faithful, and the faithful continue to battle against anti-christ within the church, always losing ground it seems, always on the retreat. The faithful think "Sure ignorant pigs get top positions and interfere with the Church, but they don't have a clue what the church is really about so we will just weather them like storms and wait for better times."
  • After the 3rd century or so, some Christians stop using Philosophy to research about God and start using it to proselytize, to convince people to join Christ. It is very complicated, but you can read about it in the book linked above.
  • From the beginning things start getting political. Over time Christian leaders become proud, arrogant and protective of their positions. James and other "Soften your heart" writings are written, but they do not entirely fix things. Things get worse and worse. The influence of the financial and political influence of the Church is impossible to overlook, and the Big politicans get involved -- the murderous emperors, governors and so forth.
  • One of these murderous emperors takes control of the church and decides he can settle all the disagreements therein, because he's such a bad ***. He's wrong, but he requires everyone to agree to common wording about the trinity. Meh. Over the next couple of centuries it becomes something like a law.
  • The pope anoints a king, sealing the church public marriage to politics although its mistress and first love is peaceful good works. What a mess the marriage is. Neither the church nor the politicians are ever really satisfied.
  • Ecumenical reforms begin -- creeds and other unsuccessful attempts to keep everyone together as one flock, but there are some successes that happen in the background which the politicians have no part of.
  • By the 5th century the Church due to arguing and politicking has hardened like an old piece of plastic and fragments. The East and the West stop recognizing one another. The is called the Great Schism. Essentially the bishops are so riled up that they are like Republicans and Democrats, and they cannot stand to talk to each other.
  • Enter Islam and its experience of Christianity. Islam decides Christianity has been a very bad boy indeed. It declares Christian Trinity to be nothing less than Shirk.
  • 1965 Frank Herbert writes Dune and invents the concept of the Orange Catholic Bible. People love this book and don't realize what they are reading is actually historical fiction recast as futuristic with some technological changes and some name changes.
2000 year old story --> abridged: the Trinity has its roots in a philosophical investigation of the nature of the invisible God, etc.

The above list is just my idea of how things went, not an attempt to argue with anybody.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
in orthodox christianity they believe God is a Trinity, meaning one God with three distinct faces. but why does God have three faces and not just one since he is one God? the answer is love. God is love and love has meaning only when there are many and not just one. father, son, and the holy spirit coexist harmoniously under the name of love and we ought to follow their example and live all as brothers and sisters in the name of God's love.

Is it orthodox Christianity or rather all of Christendom teaching a trinity concept.
I find the answer is that when the people of ancient Babylon left Babylon they took with them their religious-myth practices and ideas as spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
That is why we have so many overlapping or similar triad or trinity concepts and ideas throughout the religious world.

Since God's spirit (Psalms 104:30) is a neuter "it" at Numbers 11:17 and Numbers 11:25 ( and in the Old King James version at Romans 8:16 and Romans 8:26 having God's spirit as " itself ", then God's spirit is Not a person ).
Greek grammar rules allow for a neuter "it" to be presented in the masculine gender although always a neuter "it".
Just as in English we refer to a 'ship as a she' although the ship always remains a neuter "it".

Agree that we should all live as brothers and sisters in the name of God's love just as Jesus taught at John 13:34-35 to have the same self-sacrificing love for others as Jesus has.
 

RedDragon94

Love everyone, meditate often
in orthodox christianity they believe God is a Trinity, meaning one God with three distinct faces. but why does God have three faces and not just one since he is one God? the answer is love. God is love and love has meaning only when there are many and not just one. father, son, and the holy spirit coexist harmoniously under the name of love and we ought to follow their example and live all as brothers and sisters in the name of God's love.
I thought it was because it was necessary to be three-in-one to accomplish redemption.

God the Father (Mastermind, Elector)
God the Son (Savior, Maker, Sacrifice)
God the Spirit (Seal, Guide, Counselor)
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
The answer is so simple that most Christians just can't grasp it.

There is only one God. But that God manifests apart from us, within us, and through us to each other. Hence, the three manifestation of one Divine Being. (The external, the internal, and the interactive.)

Well, to be fair, no human being can grasp or imagine exactly who/what God is. He is far too complex for us to totally understand Him. Moreover, He is Holy and we aren't so there is no way we can grasp what that's like.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Why a Trinity?

No Trinity is found in the NT. In the NT Jesus denies again and again that he's god, just as you'd expect of someone raised in Judaism. He says in as many words that the Father is god and is his, Jesus', god, and that he is simply Yahweh's agent doing what Yahweh tells him. If you wish to read those texts, I set them out >here<. He never once claims to be god.

The best that can be said is that the NT mentions each of Jesus the Son, and Yahweh the Father, and the Holy Ghost (the perennial bronze medalist).

The idea that the three of them make up a single god (often 'godhead' to make the message less bald) is developed in the 4th cent. and arises from the politics of the early church. A major element is the desire to promote Jesus to God status so that he can be worshiped in his own name. The promotion of Christianity to an Empire religion by Constantine in 313 added to this pressure. Up to that time, there had been another as well. In the marketplace rivalry for followers, the people to whom Christianity was likely to appeal included many to whom Judaism might appeal; and Judaism had been exempt from the requirement to attend the ceremonies of the Roman gods while Christianity had not. One of the taunts of Judaism to Christianity in this rivalry was that Christians worshiped more than one god (as the Romans did), while the Jews worshiped the one true god ...

So the Trinity doctrine emerged.

Unfortunately it's incoherent. No matter how you phrase it, you can't have a single god who is three distinct 'persons' each of whom is 100% of god. The problem is acknowledged by the RCC and Anglicans and doubtless others, but (again in order to make the proposition less bald) called a 'mystery'.

So in broad terms, the story of why there's a Trinity goes something like that.
 
Last edited:

PureX

Veteran Member
Well, to be fair, no human being can grasp or imagine exactly who/what God is. He is far too complex for us to totally understand Him. Moreover, He is Holy and we aren't so there is no way we can grasp what that's like.
I was referring more to grasping the trinity ideal, not to grasping the reality of God.
 

blü 2

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I realize that. I was just trying to be fair to those who have trouble understanding the trinity.
Quite right. As its acknowledged incoherence shows, the Trinity's as easy to understand as any other nonsense ─ easier, indeed, since the incoherence is patent.
 

Desert Snake

Veteran Member
The answer is so simple that most Christians just can't grasp it.

There is only one God. But that God manifests apart from us, within us, and through us to each other. Hence, the three manifestation of one Divine Being. (The external, the internal, and the interactive.)
That's pantheism, not the trinity.
 
Top