• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Noahide Ex- Christians

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Jesus took part in the Feast of the Dedication (John 10:22). This is Chanukkah. It is Rabbinic and not found anywhere in the Written Torah. It's part of Oral Torah.

That only shows the Rabbi's believed in the feast of dedication. Jesus only showed up to the temple for this feast to criticise the Rabbis and tell them they were not his sheep. He didn't take part in the feast.

2 And it was at Jerusalem the feast of the dedication, and it was winter.

23 And Jesus walked in the temple in Solomon's porch.

24 Then came the Jews round about him, and said unto him, How long dost thou make us to doubt? If thou be the Christ, tell us plainly.

25 Jesus answered them, I told you, and ye believed not: the works that I do in my Father's name, they bear witness of me.

26 But ye believe not, because ye are not of my sheep, as I said unto you.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member

What do you think he was doing in the Temple on the Feast of the Dedication? Just hanging around? He's not arguing with them about the feast, which we'd assume he would if he felt it should not be happening.
 
Last edited:

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What do you think he was doing in the Temple on the Feast of the Dedication? Just hanging around? He's not arguing with them about the feast, which we'd assume he would if he felt it should not be happening.

Showing up at the illegitimate feast the Rabbis made up themselves would be the appropriate time to tell them they were not his sheep. It's characteristic that Jesus makes people read between the lines and figure it out themselves.
 
How can you believe in "Noahide laws"? There is no mention of them anywhere in the bible and contradicts scripture.
So let’s get this straight. Do not commit idolatry contradicts Scriptures? Do not blaspheme contradicts Scriptures? Do not murder contradicts Scriptures? Do not steal contradicts Scriptures? Do not commit unlawful sex acts contradicts Scriptures? Do not eat the flesh of a living creature contradicts Scriptures? Set up courts of Justice contradicts Scriptures?

Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to commit idolatry? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to blaspheme? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to commit murder? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to steal? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to commit unlawful sex acts? Where in Scripture is anyone ever commanded to eat the flesh of a living creature? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to live without Justice?

Please, please tell me where these contradictions are located. I would really love to see them.

If you think that any of these seven Mitz’vot are a bad thing, you must be a seriously depraved individual.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
Anyway, we are seriously off-topic.

The Noahide Laws are found enumerated in Talmud. If the resident Christians don't like this that's their problem. The Noahide Laws are laws taken from Tanach where they are implicit, not explicit, and came before Sinai and were incumbent on everyone. Things such as:


Cain knew it was wrong to murder his brother Abel and G-d punished him for it. This means murder is prohibited.

The rape of Dinah and her brothers' revenge. Rape is prohibited.


There is much more to it than this, but I think the thread linked in my signature does a better job of explaining.

(Resident Jews feel free to correct any mistakes).
 
Last edited:

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So let’s get this straight. Do not commit idolatry contradicts Scriptures? Do not blaspheme contradicts Scriptures? Do not murder contradicts Scriptures? Do not steal contradicts Scriptures? Do not commit unlawful sex acts contradicts Scriptures? Do not eat the flesh of a living creature contradicts Scriptures? Set up courts of Justice contradicts Scriptures?

Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to commit idolatry? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to blaspheme? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to commit murder? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to steal? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to commit unlawful sex acts? Where in Scripture is anyone ever commanded to eat the flesh of a living creature? Where in Scripture is anyone commanded to live without Justice?

Please, please tell me where these contradictions are located. I would really love to see them.

If you think that any of these seven Mitz’vot are a bad thing, you must be a seriously depraved individual.

It contradicts scripture to say there was a law given before the law of Moses. Sin existed before the law was given but where there is no law sin is not taken into account.

Romans 5:13
Death in Adam, Life in Christ
…For sin was in the world before the Law was given; but sin is not taken into account when there is no law. Nevertheless, death reigned from Adam until Moses,even over those who did not sin in the way that Adam transgressed. He is a pattern of the One to come. But the gift is not like the trespass. For if the many died by the trespass of the one man, how much more did God’s grace and the gift that came by the grace of the one man, Jesus Christ, abound to the many!…
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
but where there is no law sin is not taken into account.
So that's why G-d destroyed the Sodomites?

Why He punished Ca'in?

Why He flooded the earth?

Why Reuven made repentance for sleeping with Bilhah?
 
Last edited:

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
So that's why G-d destroyed the Sodomites?

Why He punished Ca'in?

Why He flooded the earth?

Why Reuben made repentance for sleeping with Bilhah?

It says "death reigned from Adam to Moses" despite there being no law or command to break. And where there is no law sin is not taken into account. Which leaves only one possible explanation, the "account" the sins are not held to is your permanent record, i.e. not held against you on the judgement day.
 

Rival

Si m'ait Dieus
Staff member
Premium Member
It says "death reigned from Adam to Moses" despite there being no law or command to break. And where there is no law sin is not taken into account. Which leaves only one possible explanation, the "account" the sins are not held to is your permanent record, i.e. not held against you on the judgement day.
I think you're having to do a lot of mental gymnastics to make it to that point. It's abundantly clear that G-d destroyed them because they were wicked and sinful. One cannot sin if there is no law to sin against.
 
Last edited:

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I think you're having to do a lot of mental gymnastics to get to that point. It's abundantly clear that G-d destroyed them because they were wicked and sinful. One cannot sin if there is no Law to sin against.

Apparently not true. Sin exists even though there is no law or command. So God destroyed their mortal lives because they were completely wicked.

"For sin was in the world before the Law was given" Romans 5:12
 

Tumah

Veteran Member
It contradicts scripture to say there was a law given before the law of Moses. Sin existed before the law was given but where there is no law sin is not taken into account.
If there is no law, then there is no punishment. Yet we find plenty of people punished before the Torah was given.
 

Araceli Cianna

Active Member
It's no good quoting Christian Testament stuff to me.

I agree Christianity and Judaism are two completely different religions but Christianity still insists on using the Torah as part of their own practice (I don't see the point as they don't even follow it?)

I never knew Noahide was a thing. Very interesting.
 
It contradicts scripture to say there was a law given before the law of Moses. Sin existed before the law was given but where there is no law sin is not taken into account.

To begin, your fixation with the word “law” is unfounded, because none of the Hebrew words that can be translated “law” even occur in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Torah does not mean “law.” It comes from the root Verb – יָרָה – yarah, which meant to teach, to instruct. The specific word – תוֹרָה – Torah means you will teach, you will instruct.

The word – מִצְוָה – Mitz’vah does not mean “law,” it means commandment. “You will do this” is a commandment; “you will not do that” is a commandment.

So basically you’re saying “you will be fruitful and multiply” never happened. You’re saying “you will eat from every tree of the garden” never happened. You’re saying “you will not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” never happened. You’re saying “you will name every land dwelling creature” never happened. You’re saying “you will take two of every creature onto the ark” never happened. You’re saying that God did not command Noah and his family “you will be fruitful and multiply.” You’re saying “every moving thing that lives shall be yours to eat” never happened. You’re saying “but flesh with its soul, its blood, you will not eat” never happened. Look at that, a Noahide Law right there in Scripture.

These are all Mitz’vot, commandments. These all happened long before Mosheh. It appears to me that YOU are the one contradicting Scriptures.

By the way, I requested where in Scriptures you’re so-called contradictions take place. I did not ask for a random meaningless quote from your fictional chr-stian fairytale storybook. You might just as well quote Moby Dick, or The Adventures of Tom Sawyer.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
To begin, your fixation with the word “law” is unfounded, because none of the Hebrew words that can be translated “law” even occur in the Hebrew Scriptures.

Torah does not mean “law.” It comes from the root Verb – יָרָה – yarah, which meant to teach, to instruct. The specific word – תוֹרָה – Torah means you will teach, you will instruct.

The word – מִצְוָה – Mitz’vah does not mean “law,” it means commandment. “You will do this” is a commandment; “you will not do that” is a commandment.

So basically you’re saying “you will be fruitful and multiply” never happened. You’re saying “you will eat from every tree of the garden” never happened. You’re saying “you will not eat from the tree of the knowledge of good and evil” never happened. You’re saying “you will name every land dwelling creature” never happened. You’re saying “you will take two of every creature onto the ark” never happened. You’re saying that God did not command Noah and his family “you will be fruitful and multiply.” You’re saying “every moving thing that lives shall be yours to eat” never happened. You’re saying “but flesh with its soul, its blood, you will not eat” never happened. Look at that, a Noahide Law right there in Scripture.

These are all Mitz’vot, commandments. These all happened long before Mosheh. It appears to me that YOU are the one contradicting Scriptures.

By the way, I requested where in Scriptures you’re so-called contradictions take place. I did not ask for a random meaningless quote from your fictional chr-stian fairytale storybook. You might just as well quote Moby Dick, or The Adventures of Tom Sawyer.

Most of those are blessings not laws. What if Adam and Eve didn't eat from every tree in the garden, would they have broken a law? But the one Not to eat from the tree of knowledge was the first commandment, the one Adam broke. And it had a fixed penalty, "In the day you eat of it you will surely die" That one was a law and Paul recognizes it as one. Everyone who doesn't name land animals is not breaking a law. Noah was instructed to build an ark and take the animals onto it was not a law. There were no penalties attached, just God telling Noah how to save his life. God says to follow Jesus to save your life, so would not following Jesus be considered a sin or breaking a law?
 
A command is a command; a Mitz'vot is a Mitz'vot. YOU WILL DO THIS is a command, not a blessing, not a suggestion, not anything else. And just for your information, the COMMAND God gave Adam to eat fruit from every tree of the garden used the Infinitive Absolute akol tokel - YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY EAT, just as the Infinitive Absolute mot tamut is YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY DIE in the very next verse.

Those are commands, they are not suggestions. God gave several commandments to several people long before Mosheh. If your chr-stian fairytale is telling you otherwise, it is lying.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A command is a command; a Mitz'vot is a Mitz'vot. YOU WILL DO THIS is a command, not a blessing, not a suggestion, not anything else. And just for your information, the COMMAND God gave Adam to eat fruit from every tree of the garden used the Infinitive Absolute akol tokel - YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY EAT, just as the Infinitive Absolute mot tamut is YOU WILL ABSOLUTELY DIE in the very next verse.

Those are commands, they are not suggestions. God gave several commandments to several people long before Mosheh. If your chr-stian fairytale is telling you otherwise, it is lying.

I'll have to disagree, a Law carries more weight and is punishable by death. If there is no death penalty attached it is not a law.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I'll have to disagree, a Law carries more weight and is punishable by death. If there is no death penalty attached it is not a law.
The fact remains that you are retrofitting your beliefs into scriptures when they just aren't there. I don't have a problem with that, personally. I just don't care.
But Christians do that a lot. It is compelling evidence (proof) that Christianity is not from God, it's a creation of Christians. Who are decidely fallible humans.
Tom
 
Idolatry is punishable by death; Blasphemy is punishable by death; Adultery is punishable by death.

All three of these occur within one verse of the very first page of your chr-stian storybook.

Your story claims that a god impregnated a human and created a demigod. That is the most common belief in all pagan religions, therefore idolatry.

You accuse the God of Israel of being the perpetrator of this pagan practice and that is blasphemy.

The woman being impregnated was married to someone and that is adultery.

Three capital offenses all inside of one verse. Chr-stianity condemns itself as being Avodah Zarah half way into the first page of its storybook.
 

Kemosloby

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The fact remains that you are retrofitting your beliefs into scriptures when they just aren't there. I don't have a problem with that, personally. I just don't care.
But Christians do that a lot. It is compelling evidence (proof) that Christianity is not from God, it's a creation of Christians. Who are decidely fallible humans.
Tom

Thanks for your input again Tom.

But I think I'm onto something. Not until Moses does everything seem to have a penalty attached to it. Perhaps not all has a death penalty but in order to be a law there must be a penalty. I'm not retrofitting my beliefs, I am expanding my understanding of scripture. Notice how after Moses everything seems to have a penalty?
 
Top