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Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus?

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Sorry but the Bible is the canon of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, not the only things written about Jesus, and if we want to study Jesus, we don't have to only read the Bible, that's ridiculous, these early Catholics were barely a step up from the nazis in germany back in the early Christian era, they killed millions of people for not believeing as they do, and at the same time selected only the books for the Bible that fit into their heresy, The Heresy Of Paul, the predicted by Jesus antichrist IMHO who probably altered the text of the Gospel to fit his twisted idea that Jesus was God.
 
That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Messenger of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not:- Qur'an

 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
Sorry but the Bible is the canon of the Catholic and Orthodox churches, not the only things written about Jesus, and if we want to study Jesus, we don't have to only read the Bible, that's ridiculous, these early Catholics were barely a step up from the nazis in germany back in the early Christian era, they killed millions of people for not believeing as they do, and at the same time selected only the books for the Bible that fit into their heresy, The Heresy Of Paul, the predicted by Jesus antichrist IMHO who probably altered the text of the Gospel to fit his twisted idea that Jesus was God.

You certainly have some weird, twisted and wrong ideas about Christianity, that's for sure.
 

DavidFirth

Well-Known Member
The Oxford dictionary would beg to differ with your definition of Christian, try google it, You are confusing your particular churches definition of Christian, with the actual definitions of Christian and Christianity as a whole.

My definition is the Biblical one. If you and Oxford don't like it, that's just tobad. You're no authority over Christianity and neither is Oxford.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Sorry but you're WRONG AGAIN, your definition of Christian is not in the Bible, and was never stated by Jesus.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
I'm not absolutely sure, but I believe the word Christian is not even in the bible.
 
Sorry but you're WRONG AGAIN, your definition of Christian is not in the Bible, and was never stated by Jesus.
Revelation 22:18-19 disagrees.

Believing in the Jesus described in the apocrypha gospels means adding to The Bible, which is prohibited. While it may not linguistically disqualify people as 'Christians', it does label them as people whom God will punish. A Christian who would willingly do things that attract God's wrath upon him/herself without repenting cannot call themselves saved. Being a Christian is about being saved. Calling yourself a Christian but not wanting to be saved is nonsensical.
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Revelation 22:18-19 disagrees.

Believing in the Jesus described in the apocrypha gospels means adding to The Bible, which is prohibited. While it may not linguistically disqualify people as 'Christians', it does label them as people whom God will punish. A Christian who would willingly do things that attract God's wrath upon him/herself without repenting cannot call themselves saved. Being a Christian is about being saved. Calling yourself a Christian but not wanting to be saved is nonsensical.

WRONG, it doesn't say Christian, and the book he's talking about is his book Revelation, the Bible didn't exist when he wrote it, DUH
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Pastor Joseph & David Wood

When you start having a conversation amongst yourselves, you say one mistake, it goes uncorrected and on and on you go digging a bigger and bigger hole for yourself, until like the people in the comments section of that youtube video, (unless you repent before death), you awake in the grave to all manner of horrors for blaspheming against ALLAH swt, the God of all Mankind. What a wretched end for any human, what a disgraceful way to spend eternity.

Wood says, the Jews wanted to kill Jesus pbuh according to Islam, yet he confirmed the Torah, so why would they want to do that?

Answer: Jesus pbuh told the Elite, the High Priests, Scribes and Pharisees they were corrupt, asking people to do things and not following themselves, hypocrites dealing in the unlawful:

Matthew 23
The Denouncing of the Scribes and Pharisees

23 Then Jesus said to the crowds and to His disciples, 2 “The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses’ seat. 3 Therefore, whatever they tell you to observe, that observe and do, but do not do their works. For they speak, but do nothing. 4 They fasten heavy loads that are hard to carry and lay them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves will not move them with their finger.

5 “They do all their works to be seen by men. They make their Scripture boxes broad and lengthen the tassels on their prayer shawls. 6 They love the places of honor at feasts, and the prominent seats in the synagogues, 7 and greetings in the marketplaces, and being called ‘Rabbi’ by men.

8 “But do not be called ‘Rabbi,’ for you have one Teacher, the Christ, and you are all brothers. 9 And call no man on earth your father, for you have one Father, who is in heaven. 10 Nor be called teachers, for you have one Teacher, the Christ. 11 He who is greatest among you shall be your servant. 12 For he who exalts himself will be humbled, and he who humbles himself will be exalted.

13 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven against men. For you neither enter yourselves, nor allow those who are entering to go in. 14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You devour widows’ houses and for pretense make long prayers. Therefore you will receive the greater condemnation.

15 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You travel sea and land to make one proselyte, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much a son of hell as yourselves.

16 “Woe to you, blind guides, who say, ‘If anyone swears by the temple, it is nothing. But if anyone swears by the gold of the temple, he is obligated.’ 17 You blind fools! Which is greater, the gold or the temple that sanctifies the gold? 18 And you say, ‘If anyone swears by the altar, it is nothing. But if anyone swears by the gift on it, he is obligated.’ 19 You blind fools! Which is greater, the gift or the altar that sanctifies the gift? 20 Therefore he who swears by the altar, swears by it and by all things on it. 21 But he who swears by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it. 22 And he who swears by heaven, swears by the throne of God and by Him who sits on it.

23 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You tithe mint and dill and cumin, but have neglected the weightier matters of the law: justice and mercy and faith. These you ought to have done without leaving the others undone. 24 You blind guides who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!

25 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You cleanse the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are full of extortion and greed. 26 You blind Pharisee, first cleanse the inside of the cup and dish, that the outside of them may also be clean.

27 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and of all uncleanness. 28 So you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.

29 “Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! You build the tombs of the prophets, and adorn the memorials of the righteous, 30 and say, ‘If we lived in the days of our fathers, we would not have partaken with them in shedding the blood of the prophets.’ 31 Therefore you are witnesses against yourselves that you are sons of those who murdered the prophets. 32 Fill up, then, the measure of your fathers’ guilt.

33 “You serpents! You generation of vipers! How can you escape the judgment of hell? 34 Therefore I send you prophets, and wise men, and scribes. Some of them you will kill and crucify, and some you will scourge in your synagogues and persecute them from city to city, 35 that on you may come all the righteous blood shed on the earth, from the blood of righteous Abel to the blood of Zechariah son of Berekiah, whom you murdered between the temple and the altar. 36 Truly I say to you, all these things will come on this generation.

The Lament Over Jerusalem
37 “O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, you who kill the prophets and stone those who are sent to you, how often I would have gathered your children together as a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, but you would not! 38 Look, your house is left to you desolate. 39 For I tell you, you shall not see Me again until you say, ‘Blessed is He who comes in the name of the Lord.’[a]”

What a wretched people they were, devouring the wealth of the poor, dealing in Interest. Complete and utter hypocrites.

Jesus pbuh also came to relax some of the Laws and bring people back o the Torah. The Elite enjoyed their status, and didn't want him getting in the way.

I've shown the majority of Disciples did not accept crucifixion or resurrection. The Crucifixion and Resurrection are the core tenet of Christianity, as it is written in the Scripture (Torah), but no one can show me where. Meaning it is not written, and the evidence I presented shows it did not happen.

If there's something specific to the video you would like me to answer, let me know.
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
WRONG, it doesn't say Christian, and the book he's talking about is his book Revelation, the Bible didn't exist when he wrote it, DUH
These people don't know their own History. I applaud people like you who are offered a free and easy pass into the Christian Heaven, yet deep down know it does not add up, to then awake and reject it, thereby saving yourself from a grave error.

May God continue to expand your heart and mind, ameen
 

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Didn't you say it was Allah who made it look like Jesus was crucified by making another person look like Jesus?
Qur'an just says it was to appear to them, and gives no details.

There were two groups of early Christians, those who knew it was another in is place as shown. They would have spread the word and stayed true to the message right up to the 7th Century, when they became the Christians victorious over the second group, the non believers, that were led by Saul, the anonymous writer of John's Gospel and the Pagan Church. I do not doubt some in this second group really thought they were doing God's work, but we know around the 4th Century those not following the Church were labelled heretics, their books burnt, leaders excommunicated or worse, and their followers driven out of their homes, persecuted and killed.

Thank God some had the good sense to hide their books and letters in the desert to be discovered in the 20th Century, otherwise a good many more souls would have been led astray.

Your grievance is not with God, but rather with men who exercised their Free Will.
 

Tammie

Member
Christianity knows through the Word of God that the Son of God (Christ) came through the genealogy of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob whom Muslims call a prophet. Muslims will tell you, when they talk to Christians that both Mohammad and Christ are prophets, but through the Q'ran Mohammad is portrayed as a Holy Spirit. Mohammad came through the genealogy of Abraham, Ishmael, and Esau.

Christianity believes in the Son of God (Christ/Yeshua), Muslims believe that God has no Son and have even written these words on the dome of the rock. Christianity believes that Isaac was sacrificed by Abraham, Muslims believe Ishmael was sacrificed by Abraham. In History, even though they were brothers, they parted ways.....same goes for Jacob and Esau. Same forefather (Abraham), but for the rest of the story....they have never nor will they in the future come together. There are two different Doctrines, and two different ways...and neither will disappear until all is fulfilled.

The reason Muslims will outnumber Christians, is because they have 8 children to our 1 or 2. With being raised in the Muslim faith, it will become dominate. Christians know that this could come into fulfilling prophecy. Muslims or the Noahide Laws will be subjects in the be-heading because of what Christians believe or disobedience to what these laws hide. Which one of these will be the Mystery!

For some thought on the Trinity....the Holy Spirit wasn't a Father until He had a Son.

Sorry folks, I have to go to work, If anyone would like to reply back to me...I will answer you tomorrow or as soon as possible.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus in regards to Jesus' identity? If no, which of the two religions is more likely to disappear first? If yes, which of the two religions do you think should and will make the bigger compromise? Will Christians accept Jesus as a divine prophet? Will Muslims adopt the concept of Trinity? Will they decide to change Jesus' status into both a prophet and The Son Of God to incorporate both beliefs?

I believe it works for me but then I am an unusual Christian. I believe the mainstream thinking will always be at odds until the end.

I believe Islam will disappear at the end and Christianity survives in the presence of Jesus.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Christianity will give ground, it already is with a great falling away. They used to regard the Bible as God's unchanged word, yet few hold that position today. Liberal Biblical Scholars acknowledge much of what we know about Jesus pbuh in the NT are later stories, often altered to elevate the status of Jesus pbuh.

On a common sense level, it makes no sense to believe the Creator of the known Universe became a imperfect man.

He was a Prophet, albeit a mighty one.

I believe I am rotflmao. The Truth will survive. He always does.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Well, that's the thing: He didn't become an imperfect man. He became a perfect man.

I believe that is a bit misleading. It has the suggestion that God exchanged Godhood for manhood. I beleive He did not but simply took on manhood the way a man puts on clothes. The man does not become the clothes.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Could Christianity and Islam ever reach a consensus in regards to Jesus' identity? If no, which of the two religions is more likely to disappear first? If yes, which of the two religions do you think should and will make the bigger compromise? Will Christians accept Jesus as a divine prophet? Will Muslims adopt the concept of Trinity? Will they decide to change Jesus' status into both a prophet and The Son Of God to incorporate both beliefs?
I suspect the ill will and resistance lead to Armageddon
 
Qur'an just says it was to appear to them, and gives no details.
The Qur'an doesn't give any details related to the "alleged" death of Allah's most powerful prophet, death that caused the largest religion in the world to be founded? And you don't see any problem with that?

Here's how the Qur'an portrays the events: Allah sent Jesus to Earth as a prophet to preach and improve the teachings of The Torah. Jesus preached (according to the Qur'an) most of His life, He chose several disciples, He instructed them what to do and what to teach people. Then Allah took Jesus up to heaven alive and someone was made to look like Jesus and was crucified instead of Jesus (why or how or by who's will The Qur'an doesn't say), and then all of Jesus' disciples were killed before they could tell the world that Jesus wasn't crucified (despite the fact that The Bible shows that the disciples traveled and preached The Gospel in many countries), and then some random guy named Saul, who was a member of the group of people who hated Jesus, decided to change his name to Paul and pretend to be a follower of Jesus, risking his life and abandoning his wealth, being willing to be beaten and jailed just so he can preach a false gospel. Why? Again, the Qur'an doesn't say why. Was it satan who made him do this? Was it Allah? Nobody know. So, what do we have in the end? The Qur'an portrays Jesus as a failed prophet whose teachings were misinterpreted immediately after He was taken to Heaven, and whose disciples failed to spread His words until Muhammad came 600 years later to clarify things. So, what did Jesus' ministry on Earth result in? A false religion that sends billions of people to hell because of the teachings of a few hundred people from almost two millennia ago. Why did Allah send a prophet Who involuntarily is the object of worship for billions of people and Who wasn't capable of choosing any disciples who could carry on His words after His ascension to Heaven? The Qur'an doesn't say.

Oh boy! The Qur'an sure sounds like a big confusing mess when it comes to this topic.
 
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