Very true. Loving homosexuals, allowing women to sit on the highest court, leaving other religions alone because you love them as is, becoming totally vegetarian, would all be good extensions to what has been started.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
And most didn't last. A few did.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I see this will not happenThat is not this world.
We will find compromises not full agreement. You have to accept those that Love God, not get them to agree there is No God, is but one example and of course vise-versa.
Compromise is "unity in diversity."
We have to compromise all Prejudices,
We have to compromise between extreme wealth and absolute poverty
We have to compromise National Pride for an all embracing world view.
We have to compromise Unbridled Liberty and submit to a code of laws.
This subject in now overcooked.
Regards Tony
It can happen. If you are interested in other people's truth and find an action to dicuss greater peace, bahai conversations would involve both my beliefs, yours, hindu, muslim,nchristian, and so forth. We offer our truths without needing to agree that your foundation (god) overides mine and Vinakaya's.
We can learn from each other if we learn about what makes us who we are in our religions.
I mean Vinakaya and I can probably do this but I honestly dont think you are your %75 (of a hundred) of your peers care about what we believe as different.
I honestly dont see how world peace can happen if this is how Bahaullah solves this.
Its sad. Its possible just have to be interested in other people's religions without comparing it to your own. I know thats hard. Its not about you and I. Its about us. Have to be motivated for it to happen.
--
1. We can start by sharing how we would define greater world peace for all of us to agree.
2. Then we can be interested in another person's experiences. For example, I ask your experiences with god and prophets and learn about what makes you, you apart from me since youre not me.
3. We learn how each person defines as our core beliefs without needing to compromise our definitions and find similarities
4. We can offer individual actions based on our beliefs.
5. We can look at world peace as a whole-one not greater or lesser
6. We can define virtues that we all agree with in order to work together for greater world peace.
What is a bahai virtues. What is a hindu virtue. What is a carlita virtue.
We will see differences.
It is possible
You MUST be interested in greater world peace from other religions (diversity) to do this.
Last edited:
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
@Tony Bristow-Stagg Im addressing all bahai who even cares to read my posts.
oldbadger
Skanky Old Mongrel!
Hi......
No....... you've got this wrong. There are scores and scores of repealed laws in the Christian Covenant, and hundreds of new guidances, rules and laws in the Christian Covenant. The list is huge to post, but if you need me, a deist, to show you some, just decide upon a number and I'll do my best to teach some to you.
Christians received their rules and laws from Jesus, apostles and prophets............ many of them, scores of 'em. No, that's a fib, there were 100's actually.
I tell you what I think. I accessed Bahauallah's translated books and I read them. Kitab i-Aqdas and Kitab i-Iqan, Seven Valleys, etc etc..... Bahais will give you the proper spellings. If you read Bahauallah's guidances, rules and laws then you will be able to decide what fits etc and guage them for yourself. They are deep and inclusive imo..... they even cover the law for a person finding a cash of coins (treasure trove) or rules and laws for marriage, or purchasing an item etc..... You must do the work in order to decide what you approve of, not what I approve of.
That's the right way to go, imo.[/QUOTE]
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I finally got something to eat so I can read this again and keep it short.
That is why Bahaullah is here, right?
If greater world peace is achieved we must be interested in each other's beliefs without comparing it to our own.
Why believe in Bahaullah if you believe this can't happen to where all humanity agrees with each other rather than humanity agree with you?
That's how you reach agreement, through compromise.
If you didn't mention diversity, than yes, I agree. I would have to believe in god.
However, you mention unity among diversity. You want world peace with humanity. This means you have to be interested in the truth of others.
It must be about all people not just yourself (or myself).
We compromise what is unhealthy to find healthy solutions we both agree with. If bahai believe in diversity, world peace, and humanity, this is a must not an option.
We haven't touched on the subject.
We got up to Maxim and Bahaullah then stopped short. I was interested in why Bahaullah would not address what he considered a problem. Usually when you want peace, you find ways to understand the other person's view.
-
That's why we asked bahai in the beginning of this thread, if humanity is a part of world peace according to bahai, why aren't pagans and non-revealed religions involved. (not a question)
If you want greater world peace, you have to be interested in other people.
I see this will not happen
That is why Bahaullah is here, right?
If greater world peace is achieved we must be interested in each other's beliefs without comparing it to our own.
Why believe in Bahaullah if you believe this can't happen to where all humanity agrees with each other rather than humanity agree with you?
That's how you reach agreement, through compromise.
If you didn't mention diversity, than yes, I agree. I would have to believe in god.
However, you mention unity among diversity. You want world peace with humanity. This means you have to be interested in the truth of others.
It must be about all people not just yourself (or myself).
We compromise what is unhealthy to find healthy solutions we both agree with. If bahai believe in diversity, world peace, and humanity, this is a must not an option.
We haven't touched on the subject.
We got up to Maxim and Bahaullah then stopped short. I was interested in why Bahaullah would not address what he considered a problem. Usually when you want peace, you find ways to understand the other person's view.
-
That's why we asked bahai in the beginning of this thread, if humanity is a part of world peace according to bahai, why aren't pagans and non-revealed religions involved. (not a question)
If you want greater world peace, you have to be interested in other people.
No I have not given up, thank you for posting the articles, yes they contained accurate information
Affirmation and Negation are all part of this world and our path to God. That is how we can also sèe growth in the negative. Consider decay feeds the growth of forrests. So yes decay is part of the natural dance of nature and it is the same in the spiritual journey. All trials and tribulations feed our spiritual growth and awakening.
I quoted my understanding of the Baha'i Writings and how it is compatible with Moksha, the Goal. That Goal not needing more than one earthly life. That should be great news, should it not?
I have always talked with you considering that you did you tell me that there is no set foundation in scriptures to determine what you practice.
That the word Moksha is not quoted in Baha'i Scriptures should not matter, it is to the purpose we discuss. Should not one seek the Goal of ones Love in all things?
Regards Tony
Baha'u'llah offered the Most Great Peace to all the Kings, Rulers, Religions and peoples of the world. That peace starts with the Knowledge there is One God and all the Messengers are from God. That was and still is rejected. Consider you reject this idea, as you do not beleive there is a God. Thus there is no path to this peace yet to be found in this world at this time.
Thus the Lesser Peace is offered. Unity in our Diversity. How to acheive that Unity is also been given, the Lesser Peace also will not happen until each requirement has been met.
Would not looking for the good in all things, looking for what brings us together be showing interest in each other? Looking for and concentrating on what has divided us, causes and continues to cause hatred and war. This is not a self based thought in any way shape or form, it means we compromise.
I have answered that same question many times before, yet you keep saying we have not answered, this is unusual. Thus I am at a loss and wonder why this is so and it is why many posts remain unanswered. The questions have been answered in many ways?
I put forward it is Most likely because that within one post you ask many varied questions, and as replies come back the whole process becomes one big jumbled mess of ideas.
I know at one time I tried to tie the subect to a single strain of point, which was the thread topic, but conversation again ballooned to many other facets.
Maybe the wisdom of staying on topic for the original post is now becomming apparent.
Be well, be happy. Regards Tony
This is getting quite absurd now.
It might be great news for Baha'i', but it really contradicts Hindu ideas. Moksha is release from the CYCLE of samsara. A cycle is repetitive, not a one time event. Day, night, day, night, a cycle. The moon goes through cycles. It doesn't stop revolving around the earth after one revolution. Round and round and round some more. So if you're saying the Baha'i' can live one life time, be celibate, renounce the world, retire to a forest cave, realise the Self, attain the greatest inner achievement known to man, (according to dharmic religions) all in one lifetime, whereas a Hindu will take a thousand lifetimes, then sure, Baha'i' must be the greatest religion ever. Why, it can do in one lifetime what it takes those poor Hindu a thousnad lifetime! Truly amazing.
Either that or you've distorted the meaning of moksha to the point of absurdity. I will go with the second option. But it's the norm now ... Baha'i's distorting other religions, why should I or anyone be surprised?
No matter what another religion can do, no matter what knowledge it has, the Baha'i' can do it better. I think everyone here gets the point now. Despite trying our best to try to explain the basics of my faith to you, generally you fail to understand any of it. But amazingly, at the same time, you say you come here to learn, to listen, to respect even. Well, I haven't seen it much, lol.
The entire concept of moksha is so far outside the Baha'i' box it's ridiculous. But it sounds neat, so we (Baha'i') must have it too?
Last edited:
So let me get this straight. If two atheists meet on a road, they both close their fists and start swinging at each other? Not believing in God makes them angry, while theists all aren't angry. Have you ever heard a fundamentalist preacher or a radical Islamist speak, or watch a theist in debate shut down the debate, and walk away mad? I just don't see control of anger (a necessary character trait for any peaceful situation to occur) as being uniquely a theist or atheist quality. Emotional control seems distinct from religious belief.
We can only offer views to consider.
If you wish to take what is offered in a way it was not offered, then I can say no more.
Be well, be happy and may your journey be all you wish it to be.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
I can't learn from similarities. I can only learn from differences. If I had a clone, what is there to learn from that clone regardless if she wears blue and I wear brown, if our inner nature is the same, what is there to learn?
I learn from differences. What makes you, you Tony. What are your experiences (well, not all) that is defined your belief. What makes you different from me.
How does this bring peace among diversity, love, and all the virtues you mention when you have just told me there is no path to this peace without One God?
If you cannot find peace in diversity, than why promote diversity?
Do you see the conflict between these:
1. I accept diversity (universalism)
2. I accept one god
3. There is greater peace with One god with diversity (unification)
4. There is no peace unless diversity accepts One god (division)
Do you have interest in knowing that diversity is not just names or clothing of a person but who that person actually is?
Does Bahaullah look beyond offering world peace and have a means to address greater world peace with people who do not believe in god?
I answered your questions and addressed your quotes way back but I don't think you're reading all my posts or actively reading it. I write long posts and unless you see me for my differences,
are you actually interested in learning about me (me-meaning humanity/diversity) or just the clothes we wear on our backs?
I learn from differences. What makes you, you Tony. What are your experiences (well, not all) that is defined your belief. What makes you different from me.
How does this bring peace among diversity, love, and all the virtues you mention when you have just told me there is no path to this peace without One God?
If you cannot find peace in diversity, than why promote diversity?
Do you see the conflict between these:
1. I accept diversity (universalism)
2. I accept one god
3. There is greater peace with One god with diversity (unification)
4. There is no peace unless diversity accepts One god (division)
Do you have interest in knowing that diversity is not just names or clothing of a person but who that person actually is?
Does Bahaullah look beyond offering world peace and have a means to address greater world peace with people who do not believe in god?
I answered your questions and addressed your quotes way back but I don't think you're reading all my posts or actively reading it. I write long posts and unless you see me for my differences,
are you actually interested in learning about me (me-meaning humanity/diversity) or just the clothes we wear on our backs?
Last edited:
I believe it is the reverse, Tony. I offered a Hindu definition of a Hindu concept, moksha. I gave references to enhance understanding. None of them matched what Baha'i' say, as there is no equivalent in Baha'i' faith. You chose to ignore the data, the references, the definitions, the words of a Hindu, the lack of anything in your scriptures, and create your very own definition, not a Baha'i one, not a Hindu one, but a Tony one. So it is me that can say no more.
I certainly am learning more every day about your faith.
What we can know of God is the Virtues. Science would see them as the animating forces of life and creation.
Whoever does not believe in and live the virtues is not living the Life that Gods asks us to live, that we need to live to sustain life in its given balance, be it believer or no believer.
The Most Great Peace unfolds when Religion and Science find the one Point of Creation - God.
Until that time we must find a lesser peace which is based on the unity of Mankind, the recognition that we are one Human Species on One Planet that must reconcile and find a balance. "The peace and security of mankind is unobtainable, unless and until its unity is firmly established".
Vinayaka - You either want to start finding agreement, or not. If it is the later, then it is time to stop. It does no person well to talk in this manner, or for others to read it.
Regards Tony
That is the same question and will have the same answers.
I will have to leave it there Carlita, I am drawn more and more to silence.
I hope others can supply a different frame of reference for you to consider.
May your health improve and may you always be happy in life.
Before you again say silence can not help, consider I will be peaceful beside you, handing over produce from my garden to help you, even if it is with no words offered.
Regards Tony
My atheist father might disagree.
Tony, I believe it is educational to read two opposing views in a debate forum. LH did put this in a debate forum. If you'd like to ask the moderators to move it to the Baha'i' DIR where there would be no more debate or disagreement, go ahead. Then neither I nor Carlita, nor Didymus nor anyone else could disagree with you.
Yes, at times it is uncomfortable to hear disagreement.
Basically, by wishing to come to some sort of agreement, you're just asking me to agree with you. The one agreement I can go for, for sure, is to agree to disagree. Hindus are not Baha'i' and Baha'i' are not Hindus, after all.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The context between "silence doesn't help" isn't based on this thread. You have to read my posts. It's an analogy for a bigger world picture.
If two people of differing views come together in a peaceful treaty. If one party says "we cannot agree unless you believe in god" and the other party says "we can agree despite our beliefs in god" and our treaty is the only way we can end the spiritual war for greater world peace, while I watch you walk away with a smile of peace, I think to myself,
What did I say wrong?
What did I say that was negative?
How is my optimism of finding other methods negative?
I scratch my head.
We will scratch together.
You seem to misunderstand what most of Hinduism says. I'm not an expert but what I know of it so far is that the aim is the progress of the soul to attain liberation. That means not to come back and to return to God (Devi, in my personal case). There will never be some paradise on Earth that will satisfy everyone. There will always be strife, dissatisfaction, depression, etc. because as long as the soul is here, it is not home, it is in samsara. It has not reached its full potential. So Baha'i's aim does not fit with Hinduism's aim. The Abrahamic religions seek to make Heaven align with earth and that's not how it works in the Dharmic religions.
Last edited:
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
As far as I know, Bahaullah does not teach unity in diversity of Religion. Look, what Bahaullah has been recorded to have said:
Bahá’u’lláh stated at that meeting:
"… That all nations should become one in faith and all men as brothers; that the bonds of affection and unity between the sons of men should be strengthened; that diversity of religion should cease, and differences of race be annulled — what harm is there in this? … Yet so it shall be; these fruitless strifes, these ruinous wars shall pass away, and the 'Most Great Peace' shall come.… Let not a man glory in this, that he loves his country; let him rather glory in this, that he loves his kind."
Bahaullah identified that the major obstacle to peace, is racism, nationalism, sexism, and seeing each other as strangers.
He says, we should not see each other with they eye of strangers, because we are all servants of One God. Bahai Scriptures say, once we come to recognize that Bahaullah, is the Manifestation of God, and the True Friend, and the Beloved, then, and only then, through the love of Bahaullah, we obey Him, and become peaceful to each other.
Thus, to me, unity in diversity from Bahai point of view is that, despite we all are from different nationalities, races, genders, colors...yet, we can be united through the Love of God.
Thus, in Bahai View, Bahaullah has brought all evidence that proves He is the Manifestation of God, however because people often do not investigate Him, they have remained heedless, and are wandering in the path of delusion, bereft to see God with their own eyes, or hear His words, with their own ears. Bahais believe God created all with free will, and He does not wish to force mankind to accept His Manifestations. It is their duty to investigate with an unbiased, clean and pure heart, to see Him.
Last edited: