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Three days and three nights?

Ken Brown

Well-Known Member
Justin Martyr, writing around 150 AD, says this explicitly in his First Apology, chapter 67:
But Sunday is the day on which we all hold our common assembly, because it is the first day on which God, having wrought a change in the darkness and matter, made the world; and Jesus Christ our Saviour on the same day rose from the dead. For He was crucified on the day before that of Saturn (Saturday); and on the day after that of Saturn, which is the day of the Sun, having appeared to His apostles and disciples, He taught them these things, which we have submitted to you also for your consideration.​
The day before Saturday is Friday, as we all know.

In addition, the Didache (written in the first century) equates the "Day of Preparation" with Friday, since on Friday, people would "prepare" for the Sabbath, doing all necessary tasks before the Sabbath, since no work could be done on the Sabbath.
But let not your fasts be with the hypocrites, for they fast on the second and fifth day of the week. Rather, fast on the fourth day and the Preparation (Friday).
In case you're confused on what the Didache is talking about, the Didache is instructing the Christians when to fast during the week. The hypocrites (and I assume this means the Pharisees here, but the identity of the "hypocrites" doesn't matter too terribly much) fast twice a week, on the second day (Monday) and the fifth day (Thursday). The Didache is telling us to fast twice a week as well, but not on Monday and Thursday, but on Wednesday (the day that Judas agreed to betray Christ) and Friday (the day that Christ was crucified). That is why we Christians fast on Wednesday and Friday. Those two days weren't pulled out of a hat.

Hi Shiranui117, I have two things to say. First, the writings of the original Apostles and Disciples warned of the pending destruction of the Church, with the introduction of false doctrines and heresies. Doing away with the Sabbath is one such doctrine, and changing the day of Yeshua's burial from Wednesday to Friday is another.

Secondly, the day of slaughtering the Passover Lambs is ALWAYS a day of preparation for the High Day Sabbath (15th of Nissan). Anytime the Law commanded that a day was to have no work, and a holy convocation, it meant the the preceding day would be a day for preparing for that Sabbath. The 14th of Nissan is ALWAYS a day of preparation for the High Day Sabbath, and it can fall on any day of the week, not just Friday.

With that being said, how do you answer as to WHEN the women bought and prepared the burial perfumes? KB
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
Hi Shiranui117, I have two things to say. First, the writings of the original Apostles and Disciples warned of the pending destruction of the Church, with the introduction of false doctrines and heresies. Doing away with the Sabbath is one such doctrine, and changing the day of Yeshua's burial from Wednesday to Friday is another.
What makes you believe that these were the doctrines that were changed? Why would the Church deliberately change the day on which Christ was crucified, if He was obviously crucified on a Wednesday? What ulterior motive could there be in changing the day of Crucifixion?

Secondly, why is it that people always assume that the entire Church fell away? Why is it always assumed that the Apostles had no faithful students, and that the Apostles themselves didn't appoint leaders and teachers to pass on the Faith as it was handed onto them? Didn't the priests, deacons and bishops appointed by the Apostles teach others, as they themselves were taught? With the way a lot of people argue about the "great apostasy" right in the 1st century, it's like either the Apostles and/or their students were wholly incompetent teachers and leaders.

More importantly, if any clergy of the Church--whether they be bishops, priests or deacons--changed something as blatantly obvious as the day of Christ's Crucifixion, then those clergy would have been run out of town by the people for trying to corrupt the Faith. The Christian laity were not sheeple; they stood up for the Faith as adamantly as the clergy.

With that being said, how do you answer as to WHEN the women bought and prepared the burial perfumes? KB
A more important question, first. Does "prepared" mean that they made it themselves? If I prepare a bunch of spices to put on my food, does that mean I made the spices myself, or that I merely assembled them and got them ready to put on, having bought the spices prior? There were certainly vendors who made perfumes for their customers, so they didn't have to do it themselves. What makes you think that the women themselves made the perfumes?
 

Ken Brown

Well-Known Member
What makes you believe that these were the doctrines that were changed? Why would the Church deliberately change the day on which Christ was crucified, if He was obviously crucified on a Wednesday? What ulterior motive could there be in changing the day of Crucifixion?

Secondly, why is it that people always assume that the entire Church fell away? Why is it always assumed that the Apostles had no faithful students, and that the Apostles themselves didn't appoint leaders and teachers to pass on the Faith as it was handed onto them? Didn't the priests, deacons and bishops appointed by the Apostles teach others, as they themselves were taught? With the way a lot of people argue about the "great apostasy" right in the 1st century, it's like either the Apostles and/or their students were wholly incompetent teachers and leaders.

More importantly, if any clergy of the Church--whether they be bishops, priests or deacons--changed something as blatantly obvious as the day of Christ's Crucifixion, then those clergy would have been run out of town by the people for trying to corrupt the Faith. The Christian laity were not sheeple; they stood up for the Faith as adamantly as the clergy.


A more important question, first. Does "prepared" mean that they made it themselves? If I prepare a bunch of spices to put on my food, does that mean I made the spices myself, or that I merely assembled them and got them ready to put on, having bought the spices prior? There were certainly vendors who made perfumes for their customers, so they didn't have to do it themselves. What makes you think that the women themselves made the perfumes?

Hi , Shiranui117 you ask:

What makes you believe that these were the doctrines that were changed? Why would the Church deliberately change the day on which Christ was crucified, if He was obviously crucified on a Wednesday? What ulterior motive could there be in changing the day of Crucifixion?

First, the One True Church did not change the day of the crucifixion from Wednesday to Friday, it was the infiltrators that came in amongst them and their disciples which followed after them, that did so. As to why these men changed the day from Wednesday to Friday, it's rather simple, they had no regard for the Law of Elohim, and were unfamiliar with the Sabbaths that could fall on any day during of the week, which required a "preparation day" preceding it. Plus, changing the True Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday was much easier with a Sunday sunrise resurrection. Please consider Dan 7:25.

Secondly, why is it that people always assume that the entire Church fell away? Why is it always assumed that the Apostles had no faithful students, and that the Apostles themselves didn't appoint leaders and teachers to pass on the Faith as it was handed onto them? Didn't the priests, deacons and bishops appointed by the Apostles teach others, as they themselves were taught? With the way a lot of people argue about the "great apostasy" right in the 1st century, it's like either the Apostles and/or their students were wholly incompetent teachers and leaders.
You should consider Paul's farewell address to the Ephesian elders (Acts 20:29-31). Paul told them that even some of those listening to him would be included in with those who would not spare the flock. After the departure of the Pillars, the Temple collapsed. Haven't you considered that the One True Church was comprised of "living stones" with one believer built upon another, and Yeshua told us in speaking about the "shadow" or "type" of the Temple of His Body, that not one stone would be left upon another, that it would be completely torn down . But take heart, just as the gates into Hades was not strong enough to hold Yeshua within (Acts 2:24), so also, death will not prevail against His Church (Matt 16:18). He will raise it up within Three Days.

A more important question, first. Does "prepared" mean that they made it themselves? If I prepare a bunch of spices to put on my food, does that mean I made the spices myself, or that I merely assembled them and got them ready to put on, having bought the spices prior? There were certainly vendors who made perfumes for their customers, so they didn't have to do it themselves. What makes you think that the women themselves made the perfumes?

Shiranui117, what you should focus on it the fact that the women who followed Yeshua from Galilee, RETURNED, and PREPARED spices and ointments, and then rested on the WEEKLY Sabbath, as Luke tells us:

Luk 23:56

(56) And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

But you should also consider Mark's account. Mark is recounting his version of the women and the burial ointments by telling us about them buying the ingredients to prepare the spices and ointments from the perspective of the High Day Sabbath that fell from Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset:

Mar 16:1
(1) And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

There should be no issue with the fact that the woman PREPARED those burial ointments with the ingredients they purchased AFTER the High Day Sabbath of Thursday, and then prepared them on Friday and then rested on the weekly Sabbath in obedience to the command. It's pretty cut and dried when it is explained properly. Hope this helps. KB
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
God willing, I'll get up a response to this after I get back from work this afternoon. Until then, peace and God bless! :)
 

Shiranui117

Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
Premium Member
First, the One True Church did not change the day of the crucifixion from Wednesday to Friday, it was the infiltrators that came in amongst them and their disciples which followed after them, that did so. As to why these men changed the day from Wednesday to Friday, it's rather simple, they had no regard for the Law of Elohim, and were unfamiliar with the Sabbaths that could fall on any day during of the week, which required a "preparation day" preceding it. Plus, changing the True Sabbath from Saturday to Sunday was much easier with a Sunday sunrise resurrection. Please consider Dan 7:25.
The Sabbath wasn't changed, it was superseded by the Lord's Day. The seventh day is the day on which God rested from creation, signifying that He had finished His work in creating the heavens and the earth. The Lord's Day, Sunday, is the day on which Christ redeemed the whole of the fallen and broken world. It is a REcreation, a restoration of that which was corrupted. It wasn't a "change" made by "infiltrators" into the Church; it was the original practice to observe Sunday worship, as is abundantly testified of in the New Testament.

You should consider Paul's farewell address to the Ephesian elders (Acts 20:29-31). Paul told them that even some of those listening to him would be included in with those who would not spare the flock. After the departure of the Pillars, the Temple collapsed. Haven't you considered that the One True Church was comprised of "living stones" with one believer built upon another, and Yeshua told us in speaking about the "shadow" or "type" of the Temple of His Body, that not one stone would be left upon another, that it would be completely torn down . But take heart, just as the gates into Hades was not strong enough to hold Yeshua within (Acts 2:24), so also, death will not prevail against His Church (Matt 16:18). He will raise it up within Three Days.
But the Church is the Body of Christ. Christ had already died. The prophecy about the Temple (i.e. Jesus' body) had already been fulfilled at the Cross and at the empty tomb. Remember Romans 6:9--Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

Christ lives forever. Death will never have any hold over Him. How, then, can death ever have any hold over the Church, since it is Christ's body, over which death has no more dominion? This is what Christ meant when He said that the gates of Hell will not prevail over His Church; since He had already died and risen, the Church, which is His body, already shares in His eternal victory over death. The Church will never be overcome by death, since Jesus has already overcome it. There will be no repeat experiences of Jesus' body dying, if He has already died and risen.

Shiranui117, what you should focus on it the fact that the women who followed Yeshua from Galilee, RETURNED, and PREPARED spices and ointments, and then rested on the WEEKLY Sabbath, as Luke tells us:

Luk 23:56
And they returned, and prepared spices and ointments; and rested the sabbath day according to the commandment.

But you should also consider Mark's account. Mark is recounting his version of the women and the burial ointments by telling us about them buying the ingredients to prepare the spices and ointments from the perspective of the High Day Sabbath that fell from Wednesday sunset to Thursday sunset:

Mar 16:1
(1) And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.

There should be no issue with the fact that the woman PREPARED those burial ointments with the ingredients they purchased AFTER the High Day Sabbath of Thursday, and then prepared them on Friday and then rested on the weekly Sabbath in obedience to the command. It's pretty cut and dried when it is explained properly. Hope this helps. KB
So we're agreed that Jesus rose on Sunday? Excellent. That's half the battle here.

Note WHEN the Gospels say the first day of the Passover is-- one of two days of Passover that was considered a Sabbath.

Matthew 26:17 Now on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover

Mark 14:12 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb, His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare, that You may eat the Passover

Luke 22:7 Then came the Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover must be killed.

So, by the accounts of the synoptic Gospels (where all this business about spices and oils is), it is made abundantly clear that Jesus and His disciples eat the Passover on Thursday, which the Gospels say is the first day of Passover. This means that Jesus was NOT crucified on the day before the Sabbath in the synoptic Gospels, but rather the day of or the day after the first Passover Sabbath. So the Sabbath before which Jesus was crucified in Matthew, Mark and Luke, and the Sabbath after which the women came to the tomb to anoint His body, must have been the Saturday Sabbath. Jesus therefore, according to the synoptic Gospels' accounts of when the first day of Passover was, must have been crucified on Friday afternoon before the Saturday Sabbath, since the Day of Preparation for the Passover Sabbath had already come and gone. According to the Synoptic Gospels, Jesus was crucified on Friday, and rose on Sunday.

Also, if the women and Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus were able to anoint and wash Jesus' body and buy the necessary spices all at once, then why would they not be able to begin making the oils just before Friday evening and let the process continue on the Sabbath, or buy them right then?

Further, note that the Greek word used for spices, "aromata," also means "perfumes." And it was perfumes that they used for anointing the dead, which were laced with spices. So the women bought "aromata," which could mean "spices" and/or "perfumes."
 
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Ken Brown

Well-Known Member
The Sabbath wasn't changed, it was superseded by the Lord's Day. The seventh day is the day on which God rested from creation, signifying that He had finished His work in creating the heavens and the earth. The Lord's Day, Sunday, is the day on which Christ redeemed the whole of the fallen and broken world. It is a REcreation, a restoration of that which was corrupted. It wasn't a "change" made by "infiltrators" into the Church; it was the original practice to observe Sunday worship, as is abundantly testified of in the New Testament.

But the Church is the Body of Christ. Christ had already died. The prophecy about the Temple (i.e. Jesus' body) had already been fulfilled at the Cross and at the empty tomb. Remember Romans 6:9--Christ, having been raised from the dead, dies no more. Death no longer has dominion over Him.

Christ lives forever. Death will never have any hold over Him. How, then, can death ever have any hold over the Church, since it is Christ's body, over which death has no more dominion? This is what Christ meant when He said that the gates of Hell will not prevail over His Church; since He had already died and risen, the Church, which is His body, already shares in His eternal victory over death. The Church will never be overcome by death, since Jesus has already overcome it. There will be no repeat experiences of Jesus' body dying, if He has already died and risen.

So we're agreed that Jesus rose on Sunday? Excellent. That's half the battle here.

Note WHEN the Gospels say the first day of the Passover is-- one of two days of Passover that was considered a Sabbath.

Matthew 26:17 Now on the first day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread the disciples came to Jesus, saying to Him, “Where do You want us to prepare for You to eat the Passover?”

Mark 14:12 Now on the first day of Unleavened Bread, when they killed the Passover lamb, His disciples said to Him, “Where do You want us to go and prepare, that You may eat the Passover?”

Luke 22:7 Then came the Day of Unleavened Bread, when the Passover must be killed.

So, by the accounts of the synoptic Gospels (where all this business about spices and oils is), it is made abundantly clear that Jesus and His disciples eat the Passover on Thursday, which the Gospels say is the first day of Passover. This means that Jesus was NOT crucified on the day before the Sabbath in the synoptic Gospels, but rather the day of or the day after the first Passover Sabbath. So the Sabbath before which Jesus was crucified in Matthew, Mark and Luke, and the Sabbath after which the women came to the tomb to anoint His body, must have been the Saturday Sabbath. Jesus therefore, according to the synoptic Gospels' accounts of when the first day of Passover was, must have been crucified on Friday afternoon before the Saturday Sabbath, since the Day of Preparation for the Passover Sabbath had already come and gone. According to the Synoptic Gospels, Jesus was crucified on Friday, and rose on Sunday.

Also, if the women and Joseph of Arimathea and Nicodemus were able to anoint and wash Jesus' body and buy the necessary spices all at once, then why would they not be able to begin making the oils just before Friday evening and let the process continue on the Sabbath, or buy them right then?

Further, note that the Greek word used for spices, "aromata," also means "perfumes." And it was perfumes that they used for anointing the dead, which were laced with spices. So the women bought "aromata," which could mean "spices" and/or "perfumes."

Hi Shiranui117, I should clarify several things:

1. Yeshua did not rise from the dead Sunday morning at sunrise. Why would you think I thought He did? He rose from the dead 72 hours after He was placed in the tomb on Wednesday at sunset. He rose from the dead Saturday at sunset, at the end of the weekly Sabbath.

2. The Passover and the 7 days of Unleavened Bread need to be looked at according to the Scriptures. The Passover is on the 14th of Nissan, and it is not a Sabbath, it is the day BEFORE the High Day Sabbath, and it is the day of preparation. The 15th of Nissan is the High Day Sabbath (1st day of Unleavened Bread), and this was the Sabbath that was starting at sunset as Yeshua was being placed in the tomb.

Exo 12:15-16
(15) Seven days shall ye eat unleavened bread; even the first day ye shall put away leaven out of your houses: for whosoever eateth leavened bread from the first day until the seventh day, that soul shall be cut off from Israel.
(16) And in the first day there shall be an holy convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

Lev 23:5-7
(5) In the fourteenth day of the first month at even is Yahweh's passover.
(6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month is the feast of unleavened bread unto Yahweh: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.
(7) In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

The 1st day of the feast of Unleavened Bread is the High Day Sabbath (holy convocation and no servile work), and it always follows the day of preparation, which is the Passover.

2Ch 35:6
(6) So kill the passover, and sanctify yourselves, and prepare your brethren, that they may do according to the word of Yahweh by the hand of Moses.

Shiranui117, the 14th of Nissan was the Passover, and it was the day of preparation to do according to the Word of Yahweh, and prepare for the Sabbath that was starting on the 15th of Nissan at sunset.

3. The "gate/gates" of hades is death. Death is the gate that is passed through to enter the grave:

Isa 38:10
(10) I said in the cutting off of my days, I shall go to the gates of the grave (death is the gate of the grave): I am deprived of the residue of my years.

When Yeshua said that the gates would not prevail, He surely meant that death would not prevail against His Body, the Church. Just as death (the gates) did not PREVAIL against Him, so also death will not prevail against His Church. And just as it was written in the Law of Moses that He would suffer, die, be buried and then resurrected on the third day, so also it is written in the Law of Moses that the Church would suffer and die (nothing of the Passover could remain after morning, it had to be completely burned, and this is why Peter told the believers to think it not strange for the fiery ordeal they were going through-1 Pet 4:12).

4. Joseph and Nicodemus brought with them a mixture of myrrh and aloes that had ALREADY been prepared (about 75 pounds worth). It is surprising to me that you would think that they prepared them that day. No where in Scripture can that be indicated. In fact, you should go to this site about Ancient Perfume Making and read where in those days it would take 2-3 days to properly make perfumes and ointments with myrrh and other mixtures/ingredients. A fire had to be built, oil and water was boiled and the ingredients were added. It would have been impossible for the women to have watched as the stone was rolled over the entrance to the tomb and then returned to where they had come from and do all of that BEFORE the Sabbath begin. And you are incorrect to say that they worked on the Sabbath making these ointments.

So Shiranui117, you need to re-evaluate the sign that Yeshua gave, the sign of Him being in the tomb for three days and three nights, as it would be impossible for that to have happened from Friday at sunset to Sunday at sunrise. The only way for the three days and three nights sign to be fulfilled is for Yeshua to have been placed in the tomb right at sunset as the High Day Sabbath was starting that Wednesday evening, and remained there until the Saturday Sabbath was ending at sunset, and then He arose. Hope this helps. KB
 
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rstrats

Active Member
Shiranui117,
re: "... it was the original practice to observe Sunday worship, as is abundantly testified of in the New Testament."

Actually, as far as the scripture is concerned, there are only two times mentioned with regard to anybody getting together on the first (day) of the week - John 20:19 and Acts 20:7. There is never any mention of them ever again being together on the first. The John reference has them together in a closed room after the crucifixion because they were afraid of their fellow Jews. Nothing is said about a celebration, worship service or day of rest. The Acts reference has them together most likely because Paul happened to be in town and he wanted to talk to them before he had to leave again. The breaking of bread mentioned (even if it were referring to the Lord's Supper) had nothing to do with placing a special emphasis on the first (day) because Acts 2:46 says that they broke bread every day.
 

rstrats

Active Member
Redemptionsong,

Any particular reason for quoting my post to Shiranu117's off topic comment and then write about a completely different issue?
 

cbullion

Member
A Wednesday crucifixion and burial at sunset, through a Saturday resurrection at sunset, would give us three days and three nights and Yeshua's SIGN that He gave would be true.

How does this scenario sound to everyone? KB

GENESIS 30:36 And he set three days' journey betwixt himself and Jacob: and Jacob fed the rest of Laban's flocks.
JUDGES 18:27 And they took [the things] which Micah had made, and the priest which he had, and came unto Laish, unto a people [that were] at quiet and secure: and they smote them with the edge of the sword, and burnt the city with fire.
JUDGES 18:29 And they called the name of the city Dan, after the name of Dan their father, who was born unto Israel: howbeit the name of the city [was] Laish at the first.
HOSEA 1:6 And she conceived again, and bare a daughter. And [God] said unto him, Call her name Loruhamah: for I will no more have mercy upon the house of Israel; but I will utterly take them away.
HOSEA 1:9 Then said [God], Call his name Loammi: for ye [are] not my people, and I will not be your [God].
GENESIS 19:31 And the firstborn said unto the younger, Our father [is] old, and [there is] not a man in the earth to come in unto us after the manner of all the earth:
GENESIS 19:32 Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve seed of our father.

Legend has it that the First Born of Lot was called "Lorelei"
, the church and state of that day, keep violating his body, until finally God said, this is the incarnation of your violation and your blindness, and the result of violating his body by his brother or something produced a daughter. And by that transgression, they all were steadfast in their blindness and dumbness until the City of Sodom and Gomorrah was destroyed (Genesis 38:9 gives us more detail about what the church and state did with Lot and his Brother, that wasn't mentioned at first). Lorelei (name) - Wikipedia

1. "Twinkling of an Eye"
2. "No Man Knows the Hour"
3. "God only Knows" 2 Corinthians 12:2
4. "Wicked are Blind and Dumb until God Arrives" 1 Thessalonians 4:15

We are not given a Warning or a Sign before the Three Days of Darkness in the New Testament. In the Old Testament, there was typically a Sign or a Warning. (The Theme itself of Darkness and Global Euthanasia, begins with the Exodus of Egypt, and how God handled that situation in the darkness of the night...................not we come full circles and that is billions of lives outside of the City of Philadelphia, USA, as stated in revelation, and what God sees as those that are not offenders by reason of "Spirit, Water, Blood")
 
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