How are these Great Beings explained?

Carlita said:

Maybe share how Bahai and non-bahai address greater world peace

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As a non-Baha'i', I don't believe in 'greater world peace' because these things are all 'Bahai'-speak'.

They have a language all their own that few of us understand, because as non-Baha'i' living in another paradigm, it's not translatable. Renowned Hindu scholar Rajiv Malhotra is working ion a list of non-translatable Sanskrit words. Just as certain sounds don't appear in certain languages (like all those clicking sounds of the Kalahari Bushmen) certain concepts don't appear in other religions. Like my religion has no concept for 'prophet'. It\s an untranslatable word to my version of Hinduism. In order to understand it in any way whatsoever, i have to step outside my paradigm, which, as the years go by, is becoming increasingly difficult to do.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

I can not say it in any other way.

Regards Tony

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That's because you are a Baha'i'. There is no other way for you to say it. However, as non-Baha'i, we are free to reject it, reinterpret it, offer up differing opinions, and more. Non-Baha'i' are not subject to Baha'i' dogma, just as non-Argentinians are not subjected to Argentinian law.

In all discussions like this, it is useful to throw in 'in my opinion' at least occasionally. Prefacing stuff with phrases like, 'from the Baha'i' POV, or in my case 'from the Hindu POV' is just a polite reminder that it all really is just POV. Nobody is speaking facts here. Religious beliefs are not facts, but unfortunately, whether we realise it or not, when we speak our belief as as if they were facts, it comes across as rude and condescending.

Vinayaka said:

As a non-Baha'i', I don't believe in 'greater world peace' because these things are all 'Bahai'-speak'.

They have a language all their own that few of us understand, because as non-Baha'i' living in another paradigm, it's not translatable. Renowned Hindu scholar Rajiv Malhotra is working ion a list of non-translatable Sanskrit words. Just as certain sounds don't appear in certain languages (like all those clicking sounds of the Kalahari Bushmen) certain concepts don't appear in other religions. Like my religion has no concept for 'prophet'. It\s an untranslatable word to my version of Hinduism. In order to understand it in any way whatsoever, i have to step outside my paradigm, which, as the years go by, is becoming increasingly difficult to do.

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Exactly. This is my whole point entirely.

I dont know if others people outside bahai woule answer, but in general to come to oneness-or to use that word-by definition, there is no diversity. Hindu and Bahai would have to compromise your beliefs to find a common foundation for greater world peace (or agree on a name you both are happy with).

The word unity acts the same but to a lesser degree.

But let me ask you thr same as I asked Tony, if you and @Tony Bristow-Stagg were to build greater world peace or a peace that helps humanity as a spiritual unit rather than just a material one, how would you go about it without compromising your belief?

I know we can settle at lesser/material world peace but if humanity is involved how would we find agreement beyond mutual respect?

Vinayaka said:

That's because you are a Baha'i'. There is no other In all discussions like this, it is useful to throw in 'in my opinion' at least occasionally. Prefacing stuff with phrases like, 'from the Baha'i' POV, or in my case 'from the Hindu POV' is just a polite reminder that it all really is just POV. Nobody is speaking facts here. Religious beliefs are not facts, but unfortunately, whether we realise it or not, when we speak our belief as as if they were facts, it comes across as rude and condescending.

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I sugest we have tried a whole range of delivery, in each case there are holes in the delivery to be found. We were asked just to tell it straight, we tell it straight and then it is rude.

The old dammed if you do, dammed if you do not...ha ha...all good, no worries.

May all be well and happy It is another great day in downtown Normanton.

Regards Tony

Carlita said:

Accepting diversity means accepting people without seeing them as rejecting your belief.

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I've noticed quite a variety. Some folks have a much stronger 'us versus them' mentality than others. It makes for a lot of 'going nowhere' discussions.

Carlita said:

Exactly. This is my whole point entirely.

I dont know if others people outside bahai woule answer, but in general to come to oneness-or to use that word-by definition, there is no diversity. Hindu and Bahai would have to compromise your beliefs to find a common foundation for greater world peace (or agree on a name you both are happy with).

The word unity acts the same but to a lesser degree.

But let me ask you thr same as I asked Tony, if you and @Tony Bristow-Stagg were to build greater world peace or a peace that helps humanity as a spiritual unit rather than just a material one, how would you go about it without compromising your belief?

I know we can settle at lesser/material world peace but if humanity is involved how would we find agreement beyond mutual respect?

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I don't know what the lesser and greater stuff even means. I just see peace on a sliding scale, a continuum. The planet is more peaceful, and less brutal now then it was 1000 years ago. Less slavery, less war crime, less classism, less torture, fewer wars, a greater willingness to help. More countries have abandoned capital punishment, and all that. So we are getting better. From my Hindu POV, it's all as natural as any changing, like children growing up, individuals maturing, and all that. So although at times I don't really like where humanity is, or feel frustrated at the stupidity still out there, I still accept it as natural progression, and part of God Siva's eternal Dance.

As far as accepting or working with Tony or anyone, for that matter, atheist, gay, whatever, I'm fine with it. I accept all non-violent people as able to work with. The problem only comes up it there is a lack of reciprocity. I would find it difficult to work with someone who wants to change me, keeps telling me I'm wrong, and all that, So it has to be mutual.

The Hindu view of social change is entirely different than the Baha'i' view. the Hindu view is to work really really hard on yourself, and leave others alone. Be an example, work hard, get your own act together. After all, that's really all you can do. To try to change someone who is unwilling to change is difficult, nigh impossible, and to make it even worse, to try to get them to change based on your own world view really is impossible.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

I sugest we have tried a whole range of delivery, in each case there are holes in the delivery to be found. We were asked just to tell it straight, we tell it straight and then it is rude.

The old dammed if you do, dammed if you do not...ha ha...all good, no worries.

May all be well and happy It is another great day in downtown Normanton.

Regards Tony

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Honestly, Tony, I can't remember that. All I remember suggesting was 'enough with the quotes already!', lol.

Shadow Wolf said:

We don't need god for peace. Rather, throughout the West, the less emphasis we have put on god and the less we have had god be the center cultural driving force, the more peaceful we have become. It may not seem like it to turn on the news, but we are actually living in a time when you are far less likely to die of a violent death than at any other point in history. We killed god, god is dead, and we've been reaping the benefits ever since. Now, if we can do away with this American resurrection of god, and slay him once more, I and millions more just might finally have our rights and liberties acknowledged and legally protected, rather than having to endure legally protected hatred and discrimination at the hands of those following god and acting upon "sincerely held religious beliefs."

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well its mostly coz when he talks he starts pointing fingers at the wrong doers , if he simply focused on the good things humans do and then be optimistic
none of the scriptures did (s)he say good-job humans you found cure for polio or whatever, i don't really read much ..did he say good job for making rescue squads etc?

RoaringSilence said:

If he simply focused on the good things humans do and then be optimistic

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This whole post is sharing that is exactly what God does.

What is also recorded in the Holy books is the result of when man chooses not to focus on the good.

What a bounty, we do not have to repeat the mistakes already recorded....but then why do we?

Regards Tony

i feel guilty already for questioning

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

This whole post is sharing that is exactly what God does.

What is also recorded in the Holy books is the result of when man chooses not to focus on the good.

What a bounty, we do not have to repeat the mistakes already recorded....but then why do we?

Regards Tony

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well , then you just slayed satan !! RIP satan ..untill he wakes up again.

omg thank you for giving me ears
Light is also sound and sound is also light..hope we learn to use them for space engines.

RoaringSilence said:

i feel guilty already for questioning

well , then you just slayed satan !! RIP satan ..untill he wakes up again.

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Unfortunatly, each day he wakes up in me, life is that constant struggle against that devil of self

But we can try, little by little day by day.

Be well, be happy always. Regards Tony

CG Didymus said:

The thing is there has been many manifestations prior to Baha'u'llah, did any of them say anything about Hinduism and reincarnation? And, did any other manifestation try to unify all the major religions? It seems like only Christianity included and replaced the Jewish message. Then Islam did it to Christianity. But did any of them include Hinduism or Buddhism or even Zoroastrianism?

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I don't know the reason why but the Manifestations each act according to the best needs of the time, Tyere are material, social and spiritual needs. The Manifestation sometimes addresses all of them but may choose for reasons of wisdom not to change certain things, The decision is left up to them what to unite and what not to. They are the Divine Physicians for Their age and prescribe medicine best for the illnesses of that time both social & spiritual.

RoaringSilence said:

please listen in to this convo of an ex muslim converted to hindu and a sikh who went in to the other realm..i cannot vouch for his findings coz i haven't even found out what he knows ,but right here is another bahu'bali who went into other realm.

NEw prophet of the week.

.

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It's good they have found something that enlightens them. Each individual can only accept the results of his own search. I think we all have a limited understanding of God and truth.

loverofhumanity said:

It's good they have found something that enlightens them. Each individual can only accept the results of his own search. I think we all have a limited understanding of God and truth.

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i follow farhan ..on youtube..he used to debate david wood and a few others defending for islam.. then he became x muslim and now started hinduism recently..so he is exploring everything..without guilt or fear.
david wood 's info on islam is outstanding and bold. and i know sooner or later he will shift his focus to hinduism or even bahai some day..whatever else threatens xtianity lol.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Unfortunatly, each day he wakes up in me, life is that constant struggle against that devil of self

But we can try, little by little day by day.

Be well, be happy always. Regards Tony

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well thank you and adrian and all the bahai knights of joy...more than the texts i liked your style so that makes a greater difference .. i still haven't read anything ..but honestly i feel satisfied already with the freedom i have.

RoaringSilence said:

im a more EQ less IQ impulsive -i give time to myself to increase love , but i fail , and i get back at it..to rid the hate+anger, i get triggered easily becoz of high EQ.
my concern towards world peace= abrahamic want government and land , dharmic want evolution and want to preserve the knowledge that our saints sages worked on for thousands of year.
when abrahamics win the world , this knowledge will be destroyed. when u set your ottoman empire ..make sure u keep 1 copy preserved .. just in case you guys realize that all your script was about anti -something or correcting someone else's path..and when there is no opposition left you will run out of choices to preach.

things like this if you preserve then it might leave an anchor for your empire..to fall back on rather then going into point of no return.

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Thank you for sending the link to the Upanishads. It reminds of the holy writings of other religions that I am familiar with so easy to see how these words would provided the spiritual sustenance for many of the peoples of India over the generations.

Interfaith discussion and dialogue is an art that we are all learning. It provides an opportunity for peoples of differing faiths to better understand each other including our spiritual values and faith.

The history books are open for all to see. I am aware of the significant experience India has had with Islam and Christianity. The Ottoman empire is long gone, and not coming back.

Working towards global peace and prosperity is a concern for the Baha'is and I appreciate many Hindus have a different emphasis.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

Yes....Yes!

The amazing thing is I live for the colder weather as well and have lived in the tropics full time since 1986. Faith moves mountains they say....

May you always be cool and always happy! I would like to know someone is enjoying cool weather, just turned the Air conditioning on so I can go to bed in 24 deg .

Regards Tony

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You could always move to Dunedin. We had a 12 deg C high today. Plenty of cool weather here.

Vinayaka said:

Yes, it's a problem, and understandably distorts the view before the person, as in individual, even has a chance. Sad, but it's a facet of life (generalizing, stereotyping) that many of us work on, and no group or individual is immune. Although we Hindus do it, I feel it happens even greater in reverse, given the vastness that is Hinduism. Look at how the Baha'i' writings seem to focus on one sect, (Krishna worshipers) assuming that sect is all of Hinduism, when it's not. Thanks to this thread, I've had quite the lesson in learning that Baha'i' folk are all individuals.

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It has been a great assistance for the Baha'is here and others to have your contribution that enables a better understanding of Hinduism. The result for me, has been to better understand the Baha'i Faith too. It is liberating to dispense with the idea that Hinduism = worshipping Krishna and look with fresh eyes at both Hinduism and the Baha'i writings.

adrian009 said:

Thank you for sending the link to the Upanishads. It reminds of the holy writings of other religions that I am familiar with so easy to see how these words would provided the spiritual sustenance for many of the peoples of India over the generations.

Interfaith discussion and dialogue is an art that we are all learning. It provides an opportunity for peoples of differing faiths to better understand each other including our spiritual values and faith.

The history books are open for all to see. I am aware of the significant experience India has had with Islam and Christianity. The Ottoman empire is long gone, and not coming back.

Working towards global peace and prosperity is a concern for the Baha'is and I appreciate many Hindus have a different emphasis.

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upanishads are much older than christianity. in our vedas the river sarasvati is mentioned a lot , which actually dried out 5k+ years ago , so basically when india was at its peak and trading with arabia and EU a lot of people came to learn or took info and tools back to their countries ...by saying this i don't mean that everything begins in india ...but at that period we were the only civilization that was practicing spirituality like it's the only aim in life ..and we had the heritage from past saints .
Even budha was indian seeker who attained enlightenment and went to china .
when your walking path of self knowledge you enter to many SIDHI's or gifts ..one of the easiest gifts is enhanced ESP. you can learn in 20 secs how to exercise your ESP..its that simple..such tools were shared freely and thus the rise of spiritual diarrhea that spread everywhere ..which is why prophets pop'd up

using sidhi and making prediction for your personal /your people 's political advantage ...this is why people invent their own religions ..they maybe thinking that they do it for the right cause..and maybe someone is even convinced himself that he isn't the one speaking..