Thana
Lady
God was introduced way before eternal hell was.
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God is a Product of our Minds
- Thread starter Sha'irullah
- Start date
God was introduced way before eternal hell was.
Very true. Did you have a point?
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Wha..? You don't know that. You don't know that that wasn't part of the earliest beliefs.
Thana
Lady
Yes.
That hell could not have been used as a fear device to control people by the 'creators' of God as you said, Because God was 'created' years before eternal hell was and by different people.
The Christian god is what I said - very fee gods come with a hell. The Christian god as we know goes hand and hand with hell though, it's one of the most important aspects of the faith. Other gods were created for other reasons.
Thana
Lady
Yeah that's kind of off topic.
Though, I wouldn't say hell is one of the most important aspects of Christianity.
Hell is only mentioned 11-12 times in the bible and only briefly.
It's not off topic - we're discussing ideas. The Christian god is one of many godly ideas and he goes hand and hand with hell. Without the duality of god and Satan, without eternal reward a d punishment - in short, without sin and the self-hatred that accompanies it the christian god concept loses all meaning. All gods have legs that cause them to fall when kicked out because religions are like a house of cards made of ideas.
Thana
Lady
I'm curious as to why you singled my post out and why you keep replying to me, Aren't you the one who said you cannot learn anything from me?
I'm a Christian and I rarely consider hell. I have no self-hatred, And I'm not afraid. I don't really think much about heaven either. I just think about God. And you'll be hard pressed to find any Churches that regularly talk about hell.
So you can say that Christianity hinges on hell, But that doesn't make it true.
Only actual discussion going on. I like discussion.
See I like being surprised because I just may learn from you. My confusion likely stems from the fact that you represent a Christian in absolutely zero ways. Now I'm curious as to why you hold the label and will keep picking your brain, if that's alright.
Thana
Lady
Sure.
I guess because there is no other label that comes close to fitting me, Only the generic 'Christian'
stevevw
Member
Some say that everything is a product of our minds. Quantum physics may point to reality being something that our minds create. The observer can influence what is seen and how particles take form. But for me this speaks more about there being a God than there not being a God as it expands our minds to beyond the physical and material.
I think there is a big difference between man made religion which is made up of rituals and practices and a spiritual belief in something that is beyond the material world. People try to put some meaning to this and therefore we get all the different religions. But just because there are many religions doesn't discount that there maybe something that causes us to search for more meaning in life. Maybe there is an inbuilt desire to connect with something beyond our existence here in this world.
Vishvavajra
Active Member
Contrary to what New Agers will tell you, that's not actually what the Observer Effect is. It's the simply fact that it's impossible for us to measure things that small without messing with them in the process. For example, if we shoot electrons at something in order to pinpoint its size, location, etc., then... well, we've just shot electrons at it. On the macrocosmic level this doesn't create any measurable effect (although note that other forms of the Observer Effect exist in other sciences, such as when someone conducting a psychological experiment affects the results just by their presence or behavior). On the quantum level there's no way to even look at things without affecting them in the process. But that has nothing whatsoever to do with the consciousness of the observer; it's true even if an automated machine is doing the measuring.
As for God being a product of the human mind, that really shouldn't be controversial. But what isn't a product of the mind, when you get down to it? Still, it's useful to know that there is nothing a person can imagine about God that isn't in some sense a conceptual fiction, a model that our minds use to make sense of something—but which isn't actually identical to the thing itself.
Everything is the product of the mind - Reality, Reason, Time, Space, Rationalism, ...
What if you had had experiences of spirits, ghosts, angels, demons, miracles, etc.? You would likely dismiss it as an hallucination of the mind. The problem is that you don't realize that everything else that the mind perceives and/or experiences could also be an hallucination. No, we rationalize away everything we can't understand. Oh, we may genuflect to Reason but if we get a hang over we never resolve never to get drunk again, do we? So the question becomes, now that there is no God do you use it as an excuse to be evil?, as license to sin, to do whatever you want to do? Or do you become Compassionate and help others through action instead of words and argumentation? Logic is okay until one gets Cancer and starts looking at Death in the eye. Then it doesn't matter what one thinks.
What if you had had experiences of spirits, ghosts, angels, demons, miracles, etc.? You would likely dismiss it as an hallucination of the mind. The problem is that you don't realize that everything else that the mind perceives and/or experiences could also be an hallucination. No, we rationalize away everything we can't understand. Oh, we may genuflect to Reason but if we get a hang over we never resolve never to get drunk again, do we? So the question becomes, now that there is no God do you use it as an excuse to be evil?, as license to sin, to do whatever you want to do? Or do you become Compassionate and help others through action instead of words and argumentation? Logic is okay until one gets Cancer and starts looking at Death in the eye. Then it doesn't matter what one thinks.
RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
I agree. There is definitely one consciousness across all that is living, psychologically and across the human race at least though there are more than one perspectives (or personalities).
*Points to cranium*Point to Zeus, pint to Athena and tell me where they are, how they look like and when is the last time Athena caved Zeus's head in(you should know this story).
When's the last time a woman murdered an abusive partner?
lostwanderingsoul
Well-Known Member
God is a product of our minds. Interesting idea. But more likely our minds are a product of God. Hmmm?
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
I feel sad to say that this post no longer reflects my current views to some regard. I no longer regard myself as a skeptical theist.
I am without a doubt theistically inclined but by no means do I believe in universal consciousness.
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RedDragon94
Love everyone, meditate often
Well that's alright. Favorite philosopher?
Sha'irullah
رسول الآلهة
My favorite philosopher is without a doubt Abul al-Ma'arri. I enjoy his skepticism and his overall pessimism toward religion and the introduction of theology into philosophy.
syo
Well-Known Member
that's what atheists say.
but gods are real with the power to create. if gods are imaginary, then who started everything?