Sacrifices

Fool · Jul 18, 2017

Does the OT, NT, or Jesus advocate the need for sacrifices?

Deut 10:17
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Isaiah 66:3
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Hosea 6:6
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Kenny · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
Does the OT, NT, or Jesus advocate the need for sacrifices?

Deut 10:17
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Isaiah 66:3
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Hosea 6:6
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

Why did you omit all the scriptures that talk about sacrifices? And what is the meaning of sacrifices? The context of the scriptures that you quoted?

Fool · Jul 18, 2017

KenS said:
Why did you omit all the scriptures that talk about sacrifices? And what is the meaning of sacrifices? The context of the scriptures that you quoted?

sacrifice

ritual sacrifice seems to arise with moses as an exoteric practice vs the prophets of carmel who abstained until entering the general population again.

Thief · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
sacrifice

ritual sacrifice seems to arise with moses as an exoteric practice vs the prophets of carmel who abstained until entering the general population again.

not sure about that....

Cain killed Abel.....that the Lord favored Abel's sacrifice

what need of sacrifice at that time?

Fool · Jul 18, 2017

Thief said:
not sure about that....

Cain killed Abel.....that the Lord favored Abel's sacrifice

what need of sacrifice at that time?

good point but not the same word.

offering

it says specially a sacrifice without blood in the Gesenius' Hebrew-Chaldee Lexicon

Thief · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
good point but not the same word.

offering

either way.....

what was the gesture to do for Cain and Abel?

and why would God favor a blood letting?

Muslim-UK · Jul 18, 2017

Thief said:
not sure about that....

Cain killed Abel.....that the Lord favored Abel's sacrifice

what need of sacrifice at that time?

From Islamic perspective, both sons were ordered to make a sacrifice of thanks giving. One gave his best produce, whilst the other did not, preferring to hold back. God accepted one, but not the other. This caused a rift and Cain killed Abel, peace be upon them.

The following 7 min video gives the background story:

Fool · Jul 18, 2017

Thief said:
either way.....

what was the gesture to do for Cain and Abel?

and why would God favor a blood letting?

the only thing i can imagine would be the communal sharing vs solely for self. why one was more acceptable than another, i can only suspect is the higher life form.

offerings vs sacrifices

Attitude of Prophets.

The attitude of the literary prophets toward sacrifice manifests no enthusiasm for sacrificial worship. Hosea declares in the name of Yhwh: "I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of Yhwh more than burnt offerings" (Hos. vi. 6; comp. ib. viii. 13; ix. 3, 4; xiv. 3). Amos proclaims: "I [Yhwh] hate, I despise your feast-days; . . . if you offer me burnt offerings and your bloodless offerings, I will not accept them nor will I regard the thank-offerings of your fat beasts, . . . but let justice flow like water" (Amos v. 21-24, Hebr.; comp. iv. 4, 5). He goes so far as to doubt the existence of sacrificial institutions in the desert (ib. v. 25). Isaiah is not less strenuous in rejecting a ritualistic sacrificial cult (Isa. i. 11-17)

Unveiled Artist · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
Does the OT, NT, or Jesus advocate the need for sacrifices?

Deut 10:17
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Isaiah 66:3
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Hosea 6:6
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

The end of Gensis, parts of Exodus, and the whole Leviticus to name a few talks about sacrifice.

Lev 1:4-9 'Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. 'He shall kill the bull before the LORD; and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood and sprinkle the blood all around on the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of meeting . . . and the priest shall burn all on the altar as a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to the LORD.

Without sacrifice, in scripture, there is no repentence both OT and NT. Its a sacrificial collection of books talking about what man must do for god to benefit from what god provides.

We all make sacrifices in life. Religion isnt excluded.

Fool · Jul 18, 2017

Carlita said:
The end of Gensis, parts of Exodus, and the whole Leviticus to name a few talks about sacrifice.

Lev 1:4-9 'Then he shall put his hand on the head of the burnt offering, and it will be accepted on his behalf to make atonement for him. 'He shall kill the bull before the LORD; and the priests, Aaron's sons, shall bring the blood and sprinkle the blood all around on the altar that is by the door of the tabernacle of meeting . . . and the priest shall burn all on the altar as a burnt sacrifice, an offering made by fire, a sweet aroma to the LORD.

Without sacrifice, in scripture, there is no repentence both OT and NT. Its a sacrificial collection of books talking about what man must do for god to benefit from what god provides.

We all make sacrifices in life. Religion isnt excluded.

do you see love as a sacrifice?

Thief · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
Does the OT, NT, or Jesus advocate the need for sacrifices?.

and what NEED is there?

atonement?.....for what?

and each of us NEEDS to make sacrifice?.....for what

I see by the op....a desire to dismiss the practice
as if there was never a need

but there must have been a ....need for it
a great many animals have died ....as if to bleed for us
that we not bleed for our transgressions

I do wonder how that notion began

something else should die for what I have done?
and the blood letting makes it all go away?

I never thought so

Fool · Jul 18, 2017

Thief said:
and what NEED is there?

atonement?.....for what?

and each of us NEEDS to make sacrifice?.....for what

I see by the op....a desire to dismiss the practice
as if there was never a need

but there must have been a ....need for it
a great many animals have died ....as if to bleed for us
that we not bleed for our transgressions

I do wonder how that notion began

something else should die for what I have done?
and the blood letting makes it all go away?

I never thought so

personally i see it as abdicating self's responsibility to their actions. if a person were rich they could afford to commit more wrongs by simply paying the fine and still profiting from the crime committed. if the material reward was greater than the sin, its doubtful the sin would be abstained.

Thief · Jul 18, 2017

Muslim-UK said:
From Islamic perspective, both sons were ordered to make a sacrifice of thanks giving. One gave his best produce, whilst the other did not, preferring to hold back. God accepted one, but not the other. This caused a rift and Cain killed Abel, peace be upon them.

The following 7 min video gives the background story:

that story had a lot of detail not found in the King James bible....

and the details take from the simplicity of the garden event

perhaps a thread in the comparative religion section would be good?

Thief · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
personally i see it as abdicating self's responsibility to their actions. if a person were rich they could afford to commit more wrongs by simply paying the fine and still profiting from the crime committed. if the material reward was greater than the sin, its doubtful the sin would be abstained.

ok...but it remains.....

the notion of substitution.....death of something else
instead of consequence directly upon the culprit

Unveiled Artist · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
do you see love as a sacrifice?

In general, yes.

If you mean scriptural love, no. I dont see love in scripture.

Kenny · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
sacrifice

ritual sacrifice seems to arise with moses as an exoteric practice vs the prophets of carmel who abstained until entering the general population again.

Interesting... I found it started in Genesis 3 with Adam and Even and then continued with Abel and beyond. After Jesus, a different sacrifice is given. Sacrificing the wants of the body and the sacrifices of praise.

David1967 · Jul 18, 2017

Fool said:
Does the OT, NT, or Jesus advocate the need for sacrifices?

Deut 10:17
17 For the Lord your God is God of gods, and Lord of lords, a great God, a mighty, and a terrible, which regardeth not persons, nor taketh reward:

Isaiah 66:3
3 He that killeth an ox is as if he slew a man; he that sacrificeth a lamb, as if he cut off a dog's neck; he that offereth an oblation, as if he offered swine's blood; he that burneth incense, as if he blessed an idol. Yea, they have chosen their own ways, and their soul delighteth in their abominations.

Hosea 6:6
For I desired mercy, and not sacrifice; and the knowledge of God more than burnt offerings.

Matthew 9:13
But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance.

Matthew 12:7
But if ye had known what this meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice, ye would not have condemned the guiltless.

I think the meaning was more simple but less honorable. The priests got to eat their fill of the sacrificed animals. Great way to get out of actually working for your meals. I simply do not accept that the creator of the universe needs dead bloody animals to appease Him.

Sleeppy · Jul 18, 2017

You're dealing with the ideas of con-artists.

Desert Snake · Jul 18, 2017

Sacrifice is something that is referenced concerning our religious beliefs.

The need for sacrifice was modified, /as predicted, with the Messianic prelude, though because of the situation with the Temple, is already affected, anyway.

Sacrifices

Fool

ALL in all

Kenny

Face to face with my Father

Fool

ALL in all

Thief

Rogue Theologian

Fool

ALL in all

Thief

Rogue Theologian

Muslim-UK

Well-Known Member

Fool

ALL in all

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member

Fool

ALL in all

Thief

Rogue Theologian

Fool

ALL in all

Thief

Rogue Theologian

Thief

Rogue Theologian

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member

Kenny

Face to face with my Father

David1967

Well-Known Member

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.

Desert Snake

Veteran Member