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Americans Don't Like Trump, but Don't Think Democrats Have a Real Agenda, either

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
New Polls: Americans Don’t Like Trump and Are Bored by #TheResistance

The Democrats are fighting these days over what their agenda should be. The Sanders Wing of the Party wants a progressive agenda, the Clinton Wing of the Party wants a liberal, more corporate and Wall Street-friendly agenda. I think that unless the Democrats by and large adopt a progressive agenda, they will continue to be perceived as a party that is merely opposed to Trump, but has little or nothing else that's positive to offer most people.
 

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
New Polls: Americans Don’t Like Trump and Are Bored by #TheResistance

The Democrats are fighting these days over what their agenda should be. The Sanders Wing of the Party wants a progressive agenda, the Clinton Wing of the Party wants a liberal, more corporate and Wall Street-friendly agenda. I think that unless the Democrats by and large adopt a progressive agenda, they will continue to be perceived as a party that is merely opposed to Trump, but has little or nothing else that's positive to offer most people.
That would seem to be a rather large problem. I say sack the entire governing body and bring in some fresh meat... er, faces. Maybe they will actually have some ideas. That is a long shot though...
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
They will decide what to do after their recess, international luxury excursions, and multiple rounds of golf.
 
That poll says jack ****. Slightly over half of the country dislikes him? No wonder, he didn't win the popular vote, obviously people who didn't vote for him in the first place don't like him.

Then, it mentions the impeachment figures, but notes that most of the people who support that idea are, again, Democrats.

I think the real lesson here is that the Left in America has become increasingly selfish about hoarding power.
 

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
I think the real lesson here is that the Left in America has become increasingly selfish about hoarding power.
What Left are you talking about? There isn't one of any consequence. I don't think that the Green Party can be accused of hoarding power, since they hardly have any.

You can't mean the Democrats, can you ?:rolleyes:
Tom
 
What Left are you talking about? There isn't one of any consequence. I don't think that the Green Party can be accused of hoarding power, since they hardly have any.

You can't mean the Democrats, can you ?:rolleyes:
Tom

I don't know, maybe the Antifas running around raising mayhem, maybe the previous administrations that legislated basically anything they wanted to, regardless of constitutionality.

If you don't think the Left exists, then maybe you're so far Left you can't even look that direction.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
New Polls: Americans Don’t Like Trump and Are Bored by #TheResistance

The Democrats are fighting these days over what their agenda should be. The Sanders Wing of the Party wants a progressive agenda, the Clinton Wing of the Party wants a liberal, more corporate and Wall Street-friendly agenda. I think that unless the Democrats by and large adopt a progressive agenda, they will continue to be perceived as a party that is merely opposed to Trump, but has little or nothing else that's positive to offer most people.

It seems that is what the Democrats have been doing for quite a number of years and where has it gotten them
Opinion | The Democratic Party Is in Worse Shape Than You Thought
The Democratic Party Got Crushed During The Obama Presidency. Here's Why
Barack Obama Won The White House, But Democrats Lost The Country

So I hope the Democrats do what you suggest.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
New Polls: Americans Don’t Like Trump and Are Bored by #TheResistance

The Democrats are fighting these days over what their agenda should be. The Sanders Wing of the Party wants a progressive agenda, the Clinton Wing of the Party wants a liberal, more corporate and Wall Street-friendly agenda. I think that unless the Democrats by and large adopt a progressive agenda, they will continue to be perceived as a party that is merely opposed to Trump, but has little or nothing else that's positive to offer most people.

The Democrats still have some time before the midterm elections, but it should be interesting to see what kind of candidates and message they send.

I do agree that, over the long term, the Democrats will have to adopt a more progressive agenda, focusing on the economy and improving the standard of living and general working conditions. They would be better off getting back to the basics. They lost their way a long time ago and need to get back to their sources.
 

bobhikes

Nondetermined
Premium Member
New Polls: Americans Don’t Like Trump and Are Bored by #TheResistance

The Democrats are fighting these days over what their agenda should be. The Sanders Wing of the Party wants a progressive agenda, the Clinton Wing of the Party wants a liberal, more corporate and Wall Street-friendly agenda. I think that unless the Democrats by and large adopt a progressive agenda, they will continue to be perceived as a party that is merely opposed to Trump, but has little or nothing else that's positive to offer most people.

But it doesn't matter, people are either going to vote Republican or Democrat so whoever is disliked most loses. PS the Republican party is still the party opposed to Obama. All there work is to revoke every thing Obama did.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
That would seem to be a rather large problem. I say sack the entire governing body and bring in some fresh meat... er, faces. Maybe they will actually have some ideas. That is a long shot though...

Yeah, because that worked so well on the republican side...
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
The Democrats still have some time before the midterm elections, but it should be interesting to see what kind of candidates and message they send.

I do agree that, over the long term, the Democrats will have to adopt a more progressive agenda, focusing on the economy and improving the standard of living and general working conditions. They would be better off getting back to the basics. They lost their way a long time ago and need to get back to their sources.

That should have been the take away from the last primary. It is clear that the youngest demographic in the party wants a Bernie style agenda and the democrats ignore that at their own peril. If they can hold onto the youth vote they could dominate elections as boomers and beyond (who overwhelmingly support republican goals) die off.
 

Quetzal

A little to the left and slightly out of focus.
Premium Member
That would seem to be a rather large problem. I say sack the entire governing body and bring in some fresh meat... er, faces. Maybe they will actually have some ideas. That is a long shot though...
A shot worth considering, though. I still support term limits on Congress... talk about another long shot.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
That should have been the take away from the last primary. It is clear that the youngest demographic in the party wants a Bernie style agenda and the democrats ignore that at their own peril. If they can hold onto the youth vote they could dominate elections as boomers and beyond (who overwhelmingly support republican goals) die off.

I'd be interesting in knowing if any Democrats are learning from this experience. One of the articles posted by emith (Opinion | The Democratic Party Is in Worse Shape Than You Thought) reflects what I've been saying all along:

Greenberg voiced an exceptionally sharp critique of his own party and its candidates. First, he takes on Barack Obama:

Working-class Americans pulled back from Democrats in this last period of Democratic governance because of President Obama’s insistence on heralding economic progress and the bailout of the irresponsible elites, while ordinary people’s incomes crashed and they continued to struggle financially.

Hillary Clinton does not escape Greenberg’s wrath:

In what may border on campaign malpractice, the Clinton campaign chose in the closing battle to ignore the economic stress not just of the working-class women who were still in play, but also of those within the Democrats’ own base, particularly among the minorities, millennials, and unmarried women.

Greenberg does not stop there, shifting his focus from individual Democratic politicians to the Democratic Party itself:

Past supporters pulled back because of the Democrats’ seeming embrace of multinational trade agreements that have cost American jobs. The Democrats have moved from seeking to manage and champion the nation’s growing immigrant diversity to seeming to champion immigrant rights over American citizens’. Instinctively and not surprisingly, the Democrats embraced the liberal values of America’s dynamic and best-educated metropolitan areas, seeming not to respect the values or economic stress of older voters in small-town and rural America. Finally, the Democrats also missed the economic stress and social problems in the cities themselves and in working-class suburbs.

But the real question is, can the Democrats move forward and correct these mistakes? Are they willing to accept constructive criticism, or do they still arrogantly believe they can do no wrong?
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
I'd be interesting in knowing if any Democrats are learning from this experience. One of the articles posted by emith (Opinion | The Democratic Party Is in Worse Shape Than You Thought) reflects what I've been saying all along:

But the real question is, can the Democrats move forward and correct these mistakes? Are they willing to accept constructive criticism, or do they still arrogantly believe they can do no wrong?

These discussions always baffle me. This isn't the 30's, where candidates are selected in a backroom by 3 old guys with cigars. The democratic party tried that (to some extent) with Hillary and it backfired. The process is supposed to determine the direction of the party, not vice versa. All this talk about democrats (as though they are a cohesive group) recognizing the problem is bunk. The democratic party is a diverse. It's always been one of their biggest hurdles. This is why, when they controlled both house and senate by a strong majority, they still struggled to pass a decent health care bill.

This as apposed to the republicans who usually walk lock step once a candidate is selected. It is big news now that 2 republicans refuse to support a terrible health care bill.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
These discussions always baffle me. This isn't the 30's, where candidates are selected in a backroom by 3 old guys with cigars. The democratic party tried that (to some extent) with Hillary and it backfired. The process is supposed to determine the direction of the party, not vice versa. All this talk about democrats (as though they are a cohesive group) recognizing the problem is bunk. The democratic party is a diverse. It's always been one of their biggest hurdles. This is why, when they controlled both house and senate by a strong majority, they still struggled to pass a decent health care bill.

This as apposed to the republicans who usually walk lock step once a candidate is selected. It is big news now that 2 republicans refuse to support a terrible health care bill.

I agree it's not the 30s anymore, although back then, considering that they won the White House and both Houses of Congress and held them for two solid decades (while the GOP was hitting the skids and trying to reinvent themselves), shows that they knew what they were doing. Even despite the post-war defection of the Dixiecrats, the Democrats still had enough strength to maintain power. The thing that really killed them was internal disagreements over foreign policy, the Cold War, Vietnam, etc. The Democrats deserve sole credit for America's industrial and economic strength which characterized our participation in WW2 and the enormous growth in the post-war years. But they squandered all the political capital they gained by giving in to Republican militarism and their obsession over communism during the Red Scare.

And with all due respect, it's not "bunk" to suggest that Democrats are failing to recognize the problem, no matter if it's the party elite or the diverse rank-and-file membership, as you say. It also has to do with the campaign rhetoric, their platform, what they support (and not just with words, but actions). As for the voters, they need to smarten, just as the general electorate needs to smarten up. All of those who hate Trump have been ragging on those who voted for him, calling them "stupid" and "ignorant" and "uneducated" - but what does that say about all those who voted for Hillary in the Democratic primaries? Can we say that the Sanders' supporters were the more intelligent voters in the party, while the Hillary voters were the "slow" wing of the party?
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The Democrats are fighting these days over what their agenda should be. The Sanders Wing of the Party wants a progressive agenda, the Clinton Wing of the Party wants a liberal, more corporate and Wall Street-friendly agenda.
Wow. Just wow. These are the perceived options for the Democrats' agenda?

How should the "progressive agenda" express its hostiliies toward corporations and Wall Street? Occupy?

It just seems to me that assessing the options for paths forward for Democrats in such terms is a sure-fire way to lose. I don't think that Americans do think in such contrasts for where to go now.
 

esmith

Veteran Member
Well I guess the Democrats could split into to parties. That would satisfy both. (Including the Republicans:D)
 
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