Why the church of satan is not banned? Is satanism a religion?

Liu said:

What do you mean by late? According to Wikipedia, Lucifer was already equated with Satan by Origenes (2nd/3rd century). Also in the middle ages this was common, for example in the 13th century in Frauenlob's Kreuzleich (and in several other texts from around that time). Milton is 17th century.

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The king of Babylon is an enemy in the Bible, but he is not a fallen angel nor is he named Satan. He's called 'Morning star' in one passage in Isaiah, which does not translate to Satan at all. Isaiah uses the term 'Lucifer' to portray the king as an Ozymandias figure. 'Lucifer' is a reference to the ephemeral and inconstant nature of the planet Venus, hardly the 'Satan' of Milton. Milton is the only dividing line that makes sense. You cannot maneuver origin into a being believer of satanism. You are back-dating the inventions of Satan, the fallen angel and the opposer of all that is good; and you are back-dating the satanist superstitions which gave rise to the reactionist Satanist movement of modern times. Origin knew Hebrew, so he knew satan is the word enemy. He also knew the kingdoms of the world were the enemies of peace but were ephemeral. Basic Christian theory is that warlike societies are self destructive and they share instability in common with Venus, therefore the enemies of peace are merely lucifers, like dim lights that easily fade. There's not a hint of Satanism here.

Liu said:

In regards to Satanism, in a way it can already be found in the ancient Gnostics some of whom venerated e.g. the snake of paradise, Cain, and several interpretations of Lucifer, or to a lesser degree in the Cathars in the middle ages. Those had huge philosophical differences to most forms of contemporaty Satanism, though.

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I have already mentioned that it is likely from Iranaeus work. The title is Against Heresy. Milton.

Christianity teach Satan is god of this World. This is Shirk - ascribing partners unto God.

In Islam, Satan and his kind are powerless against man. All he can do is plant thoughts in your mind, but regular prayer, fasting and remembrance of God is sufficient to keep him at bay.

In Satanism, Satan is seen as the good guy who wanted Adam and Eve, peace be upon them, to gain knowledge, everlasting life and be God like. GOD had a different plan, and is portrayed as the bad guy.

Hardcore Satanists are able to conduct certain rituals and make offerings in return for gaining knowledge and favours from beyond this realm.

Generally Satan himself Is not interested in humans, unless they be of super importance, in which case they will be assigned a powerful adviser to help shape the World to Satan's liking. People think Satan is the most powerful amongst his kind, but this is not actually true, there are many rulers in his World, and they have their own kingdoms. Some are happy to interact with humans, others hate us and will seek to destroy you if you're not careful. Most people contacting Satan's realm usually come across 'spirit guides' who offer 'alleged' insight into human history, and mankind's purpose. In many instances, complete novices opening their inner eye to the Spirit World will open a portal that they can't close or control. Overtime, depending on what type of entity they've let through, they will hear voices in their head, and slowly start losing control of their own bodies,

The bottom line is, Satan is ultimately a deceiver with limited time, and his only goal is to take as many souls own with him as possible.

Brickjectivity said:

The king of Babylon is an enemy in the Bible, but he is not a fallen angel nor is he named Satan. He's called 'Morning star' in one passage in Isaiah, which does not translate to Satan at all. Isaiah uses the term 'Lucifer' to portray the king as an Ozymandias figure. 'Lucifer' is a reference to the ephemeral and inconstant nature of the planet Venus, hardly the 'Satan' of Milton. Milton is the only dividing line that makes sense. You cannot maneuver origin into a being believer of satanism. You are back-dating the inventions of Satan, the fallen angel and the opposer of all that is good; and you are back-dating the satanist superstitions which gave rise to the reactionist Satanist movement of modern times. Origin knew Hebrew, so he knew satan is the word enemy. He also knew the kingdoms of the world were the enemies of peace but were ephemeral.

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I didn't say that Origines was a Satanist, just, that he already used the name of Lucifer to refer to Satan, as did many other people after him, long before Milton. Even Milton himself didn't saw the Satan in his books as a positive figure, strange as it might seem to us. That interpretation was only later.

Basic Christian theory is that warlike societies are self destructive and they share instability in common with Venus, therefore the enemies of peace are merely lucifers, like dim lights that easily fade.

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Now that sounds pretty new to me. Pretty much every single war in Europe during the middle ages was justified by Christianity.

Brickjectivity said:

I have already mentioned that it is likely from Iranaeus work. The title is Against Heresy. Milton.

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The gnostics were earlier than that.

questfortruth said:

The evil god is idol, is a false god. The True God is defined as Love. The satan is defined as Hatred. Let us dance further from this Knowledge.

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Maybe these definitions apply to your religion (and even then, the old testament at least doesn't support it very much in my opinion). But Satanists typically don't believe in these definitions.
Since you were referring to the Church of Satan, its members normally don't even believe any spiritual beings to exist.

questfortruth said:

Do you say, what it is O.K. to wear T-shirt with "I am murder, let us all murder babies" until you kill somebody?

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Why wouldn't it? Freedom of art, isn't it?

Muslim-UK said:

In Satanism, Satan is seen as the good guy who wanted Adam and Eve, peace be upon them, to gain knowledge, everlasting life and be God like. GOD had a different plan, and is portrayed as the bad guy.

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That would be one version of Satanism, but most of us don't believe this story to be literally true, if at all.

questfortruth said:

Do you say, what it is O.K. to wear T-shirt with "I am murder, let us all murder babies" until you kill somebody?

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Yup, wear what you want. I have a T Shirt which bears the legend 'Keep calm and hide the evidence' a joke gift from a friend after I graduated university, after completing a law degree, doesn't make me a criminal. I find your response here bordering on laughable. You cannot seriously believe that the wearing of risque T shirts, whatever is said on them, could mean anything other than the person wearing them has a warped sense of humour or simply wishes to shock/impress.

Rival said:

Christianity teaches one to 'Love thine enemy', not 'Kill thine enemy with sword and guns'. So violence in the name of Christianity is pretty nonsensical.

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I don't think a considerable number of Christians I have spoken to on line realize this. Perhaps you decent Christians should do something about it.

Muslim-UK said:

The bottom line is, Satan is ultimately a deceiver with limited time, and his only goal is to take as many souls own with him as possible.

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I like the sound of Satan a lot more than I like the sound of Allah or especially Jehova. I'd sooner worship Satan any day, shame he doesn't exist either.

questfortruth said:

In the faith realm, the satan is the personalized evil. That is definition of satan.
So, the satanists must be illegal.

The satanism does not worship the God, so it is not the Religion.

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I think it would be good for you to actually research what the term "satanism" officially refers to. A lot of your concerns should be alleviated once you actually take the time to understand what it is you are trying to discuss.

Rival said:

Christianity teaches one to 'Love thine enemy', not 'Kill thine enemy with sword and guns'. So violence in the name of Christianity is pretty nonsensical.

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Christianity frames this life as a (in some cases 'literal') battle between God and Satan - hence all the militaristic talk in passages like Ephesians 6:10-17

Eph 6:10-17 (NIV) ...Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled round your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

This world is in a state of war between Heaven & Hell and, according to Christian theology, we have to choose sides.

Corvus said:

I don't think a considerable number of Christians I have spoken to on line realize this. Perhaps you decent Christians should do something about it.

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Rival isn't a Christian.

A Greased Scotsman said:

Christianity frames this life as a (in some cases 'literal') battle between God and Satan - hence all the militaristic talk in passages like Ephesians 6:10-17

Eph 6:10-17 (NIV) ...Be strong in the Lord and in his mighty power. Put on the full armour of God so that you can take your stand against the devil's schemes. For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms. Therefore put on the full armour of God, so that when the day of evil comes, you may be able to stand your ground, and after you have done everything, to stand. Stand firm then, with the belt of truth buckled round your waist, with the breastplate of righteousness in place, and with your feet fitted with the readiness that comes from the gospel of peace. In addition to all this, take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming arrows of the evil one. Take the helmet of salvation and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God.

This world is in a state of war between Heaven & Hell and, according to Christian theology, we have to choose sides.




Rival isn't a Christian.

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Lol when I was a Christian I mostly ignored Paul, so...yeah Lol. But even then, I'm not sure Paul is saying 'Go and massacre them all.'

questfortruth said:

In the faith realm, the satan is the personalized evil. That is definition of satan.
So, the satanists must be illegal.

The satanism does not worship the God, so it is not the Religion.

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That is actually an interesting question to address.

Why, exactly, isn't satanism illegal?

Mainly because it rarely if ever shows any clear indication of being actually harmful. And to the extent that it does, it does not look too bad when compared to many socially well-accepted traditions. If you actually listen to their doctrine, they do not promote "evil", but rather self-interest. Their opposition is mostly to hypocrisy and apathy, not to "good".

In short, satanism is not a comicbook cult of evil. Much as real-life mainstream religion isn't really all that harmless either.

Were laws to be used to supress religiosity, going after satanism without previously addressing some very serious problems in some other faiths would amount to grave, unjustified religious discrimination, no more and no less.

I don't quite know why you think that God-worship would be necessary for "being a religion", but I am certain that I do not agree that it is necessary, nor a good thing in and of itself.

A Greased Scotsman said:

For our struggle is not against flesh and blood

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It's this bit.

questfortruth said:

In the faith realm, the satan is the personalized evil. That is definition of satan.
So, the satanists must be illegal.

The satanism does not worship the God, so it is not the Religion.

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There are countless variations of Satanism, but to sum it up to like two:

1) Atheistic Satanism (LaVey Satanism, Church of Satan, The Satanic Temple, etc...)

2) Theistic Satanism (Mostly independent practitioners...)

By your logic, God should be illegal because:

1) He has murdered untold numbers of people.

2) Demands slaves.

3) Incites others to violence and intolerance.

I think Satan would win the "who is a better deity" contest no matter what. Jesus was focused on "doing good work", but God is a tyrant. At least if you _really_ read the bible. Anyway, worship doesn't mean "be a slave" only Jehovah-based religions screw this up.

The Church of Satan is not banned because they're not a terrorist organization or even breaking the law. The people there are there by their own free will because they agree with LaVeyan thought.

And no they don't literally believe in Satan.

questfortruth said:

In the faith realm, the satan is the personalized evil. That is definition of satan.
So, the satanists must be illegal.

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What is your logic here? Where I live, there is an absolute constitutional protection for freedom of religion. It doesn't matter what or who you are worshiping. And, worshiping satan would most definitely be a "religion".

re·li·gion
rəˈlijən/
noun

1. the belief in and worship of a superhuman controlling power

Rival said:

I think we should let the OP alone about his or her opinions on Christianity, instead of assuming we know more about it and that our opinions are correct.

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Isn't the OP kind of doing the same thing (or worse) by calling for their own opinions on Satanism and the character of Satan to be enforced by law? Seems like this thread should have just ended with 'most Satanists don't see Satan as evil.'

ADigitalArtist said:

Isn't the OP kind of doing the same thing (or worse) by calling for their own opinions on Satanism and the character of Satan to be enforced by law? Seems like this thread should have just ended with 'most Satanists don't see Satan as evil.'

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Yeah but as it's the OP it makes it open for debate. Lol.

Rival said:

I think we should let the OP alone about his or her opinions on Christianity, instead of assuming we know more about it and that our opinions are correct.

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Why don't we let their book do the talking then?

-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).

-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3).

-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6).

-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

-In (2 Kings 10:18-27) God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Satan = 0

EtuMalku said:

Why don't we let their book do the talking then?

-God kills 70,000 innocent people because David ordered a census of the people (1 Chronicles 21).

-God also orders the destruction of 60 cities so that the Israelites can live there. -He orders the killing of all the men, women, and children of each city, and the looting of all of value (Deuteronomy 3).

-He orders another attack and the killing of “all the living creatures of the city: men and women, young, and old, as well as oxen sheep, and asses” (Joshua 6).

-In (Judges 21) He orders the murder of all the people of Jabesh-gilead

-In (2 Kings 10:18-27) God orders the murder of all the worshipers of a different god in their very own church!

Satan = 0

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I could go into why these all actually happened but

a) it wouldn't make a shred of difference to you, so it would be pointless.

b) it would be completely off topic.

Also, not sure if you know but within Judaism Satan is an angel under G-d's authority.