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How the Left Lost Its Mind

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I don't agree. The left is not "siding with the wealthy". The left did not support NAFTA, Clinton did. The left is not "against the poor". They are against the willful ignorance being displayed by red state "hillbillies and bumpkins" that are foolishly supporting the very people that seek their annihilation. The left does not support "free trade" any more or less than anyone else, does.

I think you're getting your "news" from liars and propagandists, and it's twisted your view of reality.

I get my information from observing the left, talking to people who identify with the left. I even still consider myself mostly a leftist, and I've seen first-hand how they've diminished and sold out since the 1960s. At one time, the left inspired me, but look at them now.

Why are you so interested in defending them, anyway? What have they done to deserve anyone's loyalty? It's the principles of the left which are more important than the personalities anyway. The "hillbillies and bumpkins" support what they do precisely because the left has gone out of their way to alienate and ostracize them - when they should have been directing their attacks towards the ruling class. Of course, these people are those who believe that any "white male" (regardless of how rich or poor he might be) is a member of a "class," and this is where they've gone wrong.

If they were proper leftists, they would attack the wealthy regardless of race or gender, and they would champion the cause of the poor regardless of race or gender. Period. The fact that they inject race/gender into the debate proves that they're ideologically compromised and that they're only serving as a tool for the ruling class to keep the masses divided against each other. You think leftists deserve respect for that? I'm sorry, but they don't. They need to get their heads out of their backsides and practice their principles consistently - or not at all.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I get my information from observing the left, talking to people who identify with the left. I even still consider myself mostly a leftist, and I've seen first-hand how they've diminished and sold out since the 1960s. At one time, the left inspired me, but look at them now.

Why are you so interested in defending them, anyway? What have they done to deserve anyone's loyalty? It's the principles of the left which are more important than the personalities anyway. The "hillbillies and bumpkins" support what they do precisely because the left has gone out of their way to alienate and ostracize them - when they should have been directing their attacks towards the ruling class. Of course, these people are those who believe that any "white male" (regardless of how rich or poor he might be) is a member of a "class," and this is where they've gone wrong.

If they were proper leftists, they would attack the wealthy regardless of race or gender, and they would champion the cause of the poor regardless of race or gender. Period. The fact that they inject race/gender into the debate proves that they're ideologically compromised and that they're only serving as a tool for the ruling class to keep the masses divided against each other. You think leftists deserve respect for that? I'm sorry, but they don't. They need to get their heads out of their backsides and practice their principles consistently - or not at all.

This liberal doesn't identify with anything you wrote. I don't object to wealth, and I don't confuse poverty with race and gender bigotry. My objection with the "bumpkins" doesn't relate to their financial status. It's their politics.

To me, it's the rightists that are divisive, continually misrepresenting liberals and then denigrating the straw man they've created.

Here are a few gems from the right's sweetheart, whom they have made very wealthy paying to read things like this:
  • "If we took away women's right to vote, we'd never have to worry about another Democrat president.''- Ann Coulter
  • “Uttering lines that send liberals into paroxysms of rage, otherwise known as ‘citing facts,’ is the spice of life. When I see the hot spittle flying from their mouths and the veins bulging and pulsing above their eyes, well, that’s when I feel truly alive.” - Ann Coulter
  • “They've hit us and we've got to hit back hard, and I'm not just talking about the terrorists.” - Ann Coulter
  • "We've finally given liberals a war against fundamentalism, and they don't want to fight it. They would, except it would put them on the same side as the United States." - Ann Coulter
Then there's these charming gentlemen:
  • "Your average, ordinary, everyday liberal or Democrat is genuinely mentally ill" - Rush Limbaugh
  • "We're supposed to roll out the red carpet for sore loser liberals because their sub-par, crooked, corrupt candidate lost an election?" - Sean Hannity
  • "Liberalism Is a Mental Disorder" - Michael Savage
And these are from Internet conservatives that I formerly posted with on another site written about people like me:
  • "Liberals/atheist/progressives are most always dishonest and revel in being disruptive and causing trouble. "
  • "Don't forget the mob mentality that consumes people like him and other zealots on the fringe left. For a window into it if you can stand it the Oscars are on. You know where hypocrites like the pretend man preach about how to live but aren't willing to do it themselves. "
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
The left has forgotten the working class and poor. That's why they latched to Trump, because Sanders didn't win the nomination. So called "liberals" make fun of "the south" and oddly lump my state in there too (we are not considered part of any region when ever you ask said region) and making fun of poor white people is something all groups see as an acceptable target. I'm pretty ****ing sick of it and I think it's disgusting. It's not like we choose to be in a horrible economic state with no chance of leaving and all kinds of other messed up stuff going on. But nah we are just 'inbred redneck hicks.

There is racism here, and transphobia and homophobia all that stuff but they embrace it more when they are alienated by liberals who would rather make fun of them then hear their very real concerns. I don't know. Maybe I'm just jaded. My state is so corrupt both GOP and Dem's that you can't pass many kinds of laws unless the companies with monopolies here are okay with it. It's that bad.
 

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
The left has forgotten the working class and poor. That's why they latched to Trump

I keep seeing this argument, but the right has declared warfare on the working class and poor. The left has never forsaken them. And let's not conflate Democrats with the left. Liberals aren't too enamored of the Democrats, who have cooperated too often with the Republicans. Repealing Glass-Steagall comes to mind immediately, a catastrophic decision.

I lived the last 11 of my 55 years in America in the bootheel of Missouri, the reddest part of a red state surrounded by eight other red states where the Midwest meets the South. We lived just outside of the Ozarks and knew actual hillbillies - people that said aint, reckon, and fixin' a lot. It was very poor, very Christian, and very conservative when we arrived in 1998 toward the end of the Clinton years, was just as poor, red and religious when we left in Obama's first year as president, and undoubtedly still is.

Obama fought for those people, many of which were the uninsured working poor, and many Medicaid recipients. The Rebulicans spent from 2010 on, when the ACA was enacted, trying to take that away. Yet I'm sure that these people helped create the situation that today threatens to take their Obamacare and much of their Medicaid away.

From Wiki: "In April 2014, the U.S. Senate debated the Minimum Wage Fairness Act (S. 1737; 113th Congress). The bill would have amended the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) to increase the federal minimum wage for employees to $10.10 per hour over the course of a two-year period.[14] The bill was strongly supported by President Barack Obama and many of the Democratic Senators, but strongly opposed by Republicans in the Senate and House."

This phenomenon has nothing to do with the left turning away from these people. They're simply not sophisticated enough to vote in their own interests, and they are barraged with conservative political commentary, which they trust, and which teaches them that liberals are unlikable and unAmerican - that liberals are coming for their guns and want to impede their religious liberty. In my opinion, that's how they think, and that's how they vote and why they vote that way.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I keep seeing this argument, but the right has declared warfare on the working class and poor. The left has never forsaken them. And let's not conflate Democrats with the left. Liberals aren't too enamored of the Democrats, who have cooperated too often with the Republicans. Repealing Glass-Steagall comes to mind immediately, a catastrophic decision.

I lived the last 11 of my 55 years in America in the bootheel of Missouri, the reddest part of a red state surrounded by eight other red states where the Midwest meets the South. We lived just outside of the Ozarks and knew actual hillbillies - people that said aint, reckon, and fixin' a lot. It was very poor, very Christian, and very conservative when we arrived in 1998 toward the end of the Clinton years, was just as poor, red and religious when we left in Obama's first year as president, and undoubtedly still is.

Obama fought for those people, many of which were the uninsured working poor, and many Medicaid recipients. The Rebulicans spent from 2010 on, when the ACA was enacted, trying to take that away. Yet I'm sure that these people helped create the situation that today threatens to take their Obamacare and much of their Medicaid away.

From Wiki: "In April 2014, the U.S. Senate debated the Minimum Wage Fairness Act (S. 1737; 113th Congress). The bill would have amended the Fair Labor Standards Act of 1938 (FLSA) to increase the federal minimum wage for employees to $10.10 per hour over the course of a two-year period.[14] The bill was strongly supported by President Barack Obama and many of the Democratic Senators, but strongly opposed by Republicans in the Senate and House."

This phenomenon has nothing to do with the left turning away from these people. They're simply not sophisticated enough to vote in their own interests, and they are barraged with conservative political commentary, which they trust, and which teaches them that liberals are unlikable and unAmerican - that liberals are coming for their guns and want to impede their religious liberty. In my opinion, that's how they think, and that's how they vote and why they vote that way.

It doesn't matter what they are really doing, just what those who voted for him think they are doing. Some were aware before hand and didn't vote for him, others realized later, and many still are in denial. They really do believe he will create jobs for them. Again it isn't about policy or reality, most people don't understand what's going on and so only have the narratives to go by and so believe him. SNL did some sketches on this about his supporters and it was spot on. In it they told him all these serious issues and he would just gut whatever it was that would actually help them.

Anyways, Clinton didn't promise anything to the working class. Trump did. That's all that mattered. Was that there was a chance he might do something because of his rhetoric. He said he would, and the only Democrat running who said they would help them was cheated out of the nomination by the DNC in favor of Shillary. And so they went with Trump.

God I hate my party. I really hope we can reform the Democrats like many of us are trying to do. But Corporatism is one hell of a beast.
 

Stevicus

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
This liberal doesn't identify with anything you wrote. I don't object to wealth, and I don't confuse poverty with race and gender bigotry. My objection with the "bumpkins" doesn't relate to their financial status. It's their politics.

I believe that there's a cause-and-effect relationship to the fact that the 1% holds so much wealth while the lower tiers possess so little by comparison. Your statement that you "don't object to wealth" is a large part of the problem right there. Too many liberals turn the blind eye to so much, while actively trying to distract the public with their identity politics. I'll agree that the "bumpkins" are wrong to get suckered into that, but it's the ruling class and their liberal/leftist dupes who are doing the suckering. That's what I object to.

To me, it's the rightists that are divisive, continually misrepresenting liberals and then denigrating the straw man they've created.

Yes, I agree that this is true as well. To me, I think the liberals just sort of "wimped out" during the 1980s. I think they just gave up against the waves and waves of rampant consumerism and unabashed capitalism of the Reagan era - and they pretty much gave Reagan a free pass on just about everything. All of the activism and zeal they once felt in the 1960s had all but evaporated at that point.

This is no straw man. I've been in this country all along, and I've seen it happen with my own eyes. I've seen what leftists and liberals have done to themselves, and what it's done to the country.

Here are a few gems from the right's sweetheart, whom they have made very wealthy paying to read things like this:
  • "If we took away women's right to vote, we'd never have to worry about another Democrat president.''- Ann Coulter
A pointless quip, obviously made in humor. No one is seriously advocating taking away a woman's right to vote. In any case, Democratic presidents were elected prior to women gaining the right to vote, so the entire statement is meaningless and should not be taken seriously.

  • “Uttering lines that send liberals into paroxysms of rage, otherwise known as ‘citing facts,’ is the spice of life. When I see the hot spittle flying from their mouths and the veins bulging and pulsing above their eyes, well, that’s when I feel truly alive.” - Ann Coulter
All this means is that she knows how to push liberals' buttons, which is no great feat. Some liberals would do well to respond with logic rather than overemotional outbursts.

  • “They've hit us and we've got to hit back hard, and I'm not just talking about the terrorists.” - Ann Coulter
Too vague to draw any conclusions.

  • "We've finally given liberals a war against fundamentalism, and they don't want to fight it. They would, except it would put them on the same side as the United States." - Ann Coulter
I've heard Ann Coulter's name bandied about for quite some time now, but who the hell is she? Why do people on both sides of the spectrum give her any credence at all? Why do the media give her attention? Who cares what she says?

I ask you in all seriousness, why would any liberal want to spend any amount of time worried about the rantings of this woman when their attention, political capital, and energy might be better expended on more productive endeavors? That's what I truly don't understand.

Then there's these charming gentlemen:
  • "Your average, ordinary, everyday liberal or Democrat is genuinely mentally ill" - Rush Limbaugh
That's what the liberals say about the conservatives, too.

  • "We're supposed to roll out the red carpet for sore loser liberals because their sub-par, crooked, corrupt candidate lost an election?" - Sean Hannity
  • "Liberalism Is a Mental Disorder" - Michael Savage
Both sides have said nasty things about the other. I don't know what any of this proves.

And these are from Internet conservatives that I formerly posted with on another site written about people like me:
  • "Liberals/atheist/progressives are most always dishonest and revel in being disruptive and causing trouble. "
  • "Don't forget the mob mentality that consumes people like him and other zealots on the fringe left. For a window into it if you can stand it the Oscars are on. You know where hypocrites like the pretend man preach about how to live but aren't willing to do it themselves. "

As I said, I was once inspired by the left and by the liberal/progressive viewpoint. In many ways, I still am, so my objection is not the basic, traditional ideas of liberalism and progressivism. I also heavily lean towards socialism and believe that the class disparities in this country are obscene. My tendency is to root for the underdog, and my sympathies are with the lower classes.

Unlike other situations where the poor literally have nothing to lose, the lower classes in America do have something to lose, however little it may be. Think of it: All those so-called "bumpkins" out there may not be living well; they may be struggling and could probably use a bit of help.

So, this is the choice they face:

If they vote conservative, they can at least be assured that the status quo will continue and they'll be able to keep what little they have. It may not be Park Avenue, but at least they can get by, and that's all that really matters to them. The conservatives are, at least, "the devil they know."

The only thing liberals can do to win them over is to promise them more than what they have now - and have a realistic plan on how to deliver on their promises. That's the real drawback of liberals. Despite all the conservative mud-slinging and nasty things they say about liberals, the voters look at that and see that ultimately, the liberals really have nothing realistic or tangible to offer them.

It was different back in the 1940s and 50s, during the post-Depression, post-war era when America's economy was flying high and people were enjoying a higher standard of living and level of affluence which previous generations had never seen before. Liberals like FDR and Truman were able to deliver on their promises - and this is the period which people hearken back to when they speak of the greatness of America.

But nowadays, even liberals seem to concede that those days are long past and that we have to adjust to a new era of a global economy and all of its trappings (including continued military interventionism). I see this view as defeatist, if nothing else. It's as much as saying that the people are screwed, and they're going to get screwed even worse in the years to come. They don't offer any real solutions or any real answers. They may try to work for a higher minimum wage (which probably won't raise real wages to any degree), and they might try to make healthcare more "affordable." But they're just dealing with symptoms, not the root problem.
 

Kapalika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
@Stevicus they focus on people like Ann Coulter because it's easier than actually giving a **** and getting off their asses to work for real change. It's easy to complain about a crazy woman it isn't easy to get on the ground and fight for a cause. Speaking of which in my area the conservatives are trying to get 500 people to come to a town meeting. We are tring to fix a non discrimination policy for my town, so gay people, trans, veterans, people with weird genetics and some other groups like country of origin ect can't be fired or evicted for said things but the conservatives are lying and saying it's about transgender bathrooms which has 0% to do with the bill. We are in for a rough ride getting this passed. Last meeting they said such disgusting overt racism and homophobia and transphobia involving actual slurs and calling people stuff like rapists. It was horrible.

And it's gonna happen again in a week, and I'm gonna try to testify in favor of it if I can mange, being trans myself.

But hey, where are all these liberals who get so mad on the internet and social media trying to help us? Off complaining about a Trump tweet probably.
 
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