Jesus as God

Muffled said:

1. I believe it is in scripture.

2. I believe you will not be able to prove that false statement.

3. I believe this is not true.

4. I believe that is fantasy.

Click to expand...

It is easy to prove. The scripture to prove it is not vague.

It's not fantasy. It just means that a perfect human was born of a human, live as a human, died as a human, rose as a human, got a new body, sat at the right hand of his father. It's an example of what Christians would go through. Born as humans, live as humans, die as humans, resurrected as humans, given a new body as humans, to be with god.

1. It isn't.

Jesus worships god
Jesus is the image of god
Jesus has a father
Jesus was blessed by his father
Jesus is not good only his father is
Jesus...

2. I've done so many many times. You going to believe what you believe. Unless you can say "hey, she got a point, discuss it, even though I disagree, what is your point?"

3. It is true, according to scripture. It doesn't matter either way. I just find that jesus being a human lets other human christians die in him because both are human. Once you make one god, you can't die in god.

Basically, you're saying that god can't save you unless he does it himself rather than saying he can do whatever he wants by bringing in a human to save humanity for sins. Questioning god's ability to save. and method of doing so.

4. If you want to discuss it, then we can swap a good discussion of what you believe what you do and why what I read is correct.

Until then, what is this reply about?

We can disagree all day long but if you don't want to understand the other side, there's no point in talking.

Carlita said:

It is easy to prove. The scripture to prove it is not vague.

It's not fantasy. It just means that a perfect human was born of a human, live as a human, died as a human, rose as a human, got a new body, sat at the right hand of his father. It's an example of what Christians would go through. Born as humans, live as humans, die as humans, resurrected as humans, given a new body as humans, to be with god.

1. It isn't.

Jesus worships god
Jesus is the image of god
Jesus has a father
Jesus was blessed by his father
Jesus is not good only his father is
Jesus...

2. I've done so many many times. You going to believe what you believe. Unless you can say "hey, she got a point, discuss it, even though I disagree, what is your point?"

3. It is true, according to scripture. It doesn't matter either way. I just find that jesus being a human lets other human christians die in him because both are human. Once you make one god, you can't die in god.

Basically, you're saying that god can't save you unless he does it himself rather than saying he can do whatever he wants by bringing in a human to save humanity for sins. Questioning god's ability to save. and method of doing so.

4. If you want to discuss it, then we can swap a good discussion of what you believe what you do and why what I read is correct.

Until then, what is this reply about?

We can disagree all day long but if you don't want to understand the other side, there's no point in talking.

Click to expand...

I believe you may be my guest and prove it. but I think you will find you understanding of scripture is vague.

I believe if it doesn't have a basis in reality then it is fantasy.

I believe He does for God is convinced of His worthiness.

I believe scripture states that He is.

I believe He could do it that way but the evidence is that He did not. I believe by coming Himself He gives authority to the act.

There are different meanings of father and one is creator and Jesus has God as His creator.

I believe scripture suggests otherwise.

I believe you are correct that it isn't that because Jesus is without sin making Him as good as the father.

I believe you are mixed up but I suspect a misunderstanding of scripture is to blame. It is probably something like:
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
I believe that is talking about those who are in Christ but are dead at the time of the rapture.

I believe you need to come up with some scriptural evidence.

I do my best but sometimes people can be pretty oblique.

Muffled said:

I believe you may be my guest and prove it. but I think you will find you understanding of scripture is vague.

I believe if it doesn't have a basis in reality then it is fantasy.

I believe He does for God is convinced of His worthiness.

I believe scripture states that He is.

I believe He could do it that way but the evidence is that He did not. I believe by coming Himself He gives authority to the act.

There are different meanings of father and one is creator and Jesus has God as His creator.

I believe scripture suggests otherwise.

I believe you are correct that it isn't that because Jesus is without sin making Him as good as the father.

I believe you are mixed up but I suspect a misunderstanding of scripture is to blame. It is probably something like:
1Th 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;
I believe that is talking about those who are in Christ but are dead at the time of the rapture.

I believe you need to come up with some scriptural evidence.

I do my best but sometimes people can be pretty oblique.

Click to expand...

I have to re-read this because the colors are blinding me. You don't have to believe what I say. Regardless of what you believe, it doesn't change anything. I don't see the difference in god sending a perfect human to die as a human to save humanity or god becoming a human to do the exact same thing. Just scripture says image of. When you are in an image of something, you are not the thing you are in image of but a representation, a copy, a mirror of.

It is the English language that translates jesus relating himself to the father by prepositions while directly saying he is not the father by referring to the father in opposition to his own nature and comments.

No trinitarian has ever talked with me through it just made claims that I'm lying. If you want to discuss it, so be. If not, you have your beliefs and I have my facts.

Not all beliefs need to be based on facts to be moral and helpful. Why fuss over it rather than discuss it?

@Muffled It doesn't matter either way. Your salvation won't change when you read the bible as facts

Carlita said:

Jesus worships god

Click to expand...

Jesus does not say pray to him. He says pray to his father in his name. (John 16:23-24) When jesus as a child (Luke 2:41-52) and as an adult when he was tempted by satan, he also taught the same thing of people who believed in him. (Mathew 6:5-15)

Carlita said:

Jesus is the image of god

Click to expand...

This is in Hebrews.

Carlita said:

Jesus has a father

Click to expand...

The whole gospels

Carlita said:

Jesus was blessed by his father

Click to expand...

"how God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and power, and how he went around doing good and healing all who were under the power of the devil, because God was with him." ~Acts 10:38

God cannot bless himself.

Carlita said:

Jesus is not good only his father is

Click to expand...

"For the One whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit." ~John 3:34

There are so many many many examples of how jesus is subordinate to his father.

That does not mean he cannot save. It just means you are putting jesus as an idol when no person in the Bible worshiped anyone as god himself. In Judaism, that is completely wrong. Unless you are talking about paganism as defined by christianity, it's all about the father.

As soon as you worship christ, you are not worshiping the father.

Christianty is the only religion that does that. All other religions praise god and god alone.

If Jesus is God, then all mobile bags of meat, are God.

Christian theology is a bit confusing.
God creates all matter
From matter (earth) He makes Adam
He then blows life (soul) into Adam - Gods breath is the "so called soul"
It is this "breath" that makes Adam "conscious"
Eve is made from the ribs of Adam - similar to vegetative propagation - no need to breath to make her conscious
Man (Adam & Eve) are condemned to Earth for disobeying Him
God makes angles (many) - by word of command
A few turns against Him (refer Milton)
Creates Hell for them, instead of destroying them - but they do not suffer in Hell.
Now the "soul or Gods Breath & Conscious" has to choose Him, if not, end up in eternal hell
So who is suffering - the Breath/Conscious of God; not the angles and not the matter.
Why condemn a part of Himself - a bit confusing for me!

Rasainthiran Menayah said:

Christian theology is a bit confusing.
God creates all matter
From matter (earth) He makes Adam
He then blows life (soul) into Adam - Gods breath is the "so called soul"
It is this "breath" that makes Adam "conscious"
Eve is made from the ribs of Adam - similar to vegetative propagation - no need to breath to make her conscious
Man (Adam & Eve) are condemned to Earth for disobeying Him
God makes angles (many) - by word of command
A few turns against Him (refer Milton)
Creates Hell for them, instead of destroying them - but they do not suffer in Hell.
Now the "soul or Gods Breath & Conscious" has to choose Him, if not, end up in eternal hell
So who is suffering - the Breath/Conscious of God; not the angles and not the matter.
Why condemn a part of Himself - a bit confusing for me!

Click to expand...

freewill is the pivot

I believe God would allow you anything
but you have to be willing......to play with reality
as is

you don't get to twist things just because you 'feel' like it

so.....to have that level of privilege...you have to think ans feel just like God

it's the only paradox that I know

God created Man for the sake of having unique souls
each of us sooooooo different

but to live in heaven with Him.....we can't be TOO different

Rasainthiran Menayah said:

Christian theology is a bit confusing.
God creates all matter
From matter (earth) He makes Adam
He then blows life (soul) into Adam - Gods breath is the "so called soul"
It is this "breath" that makes Adam "conscious"
Eve is made from the ribs of Adam - similar to vegetative propagation - no need to breath to make her conscious
Man (Adam & Eve) are condemned to Earth for disobeying Him
God makes angles (many) - by word of command
A few turns against Him (refer Milton)
Creates Hell for them, instead of destroying them - but they do not suffer in Hell.
Now the "soul or Gods Breath & Conscious" has to choose Him, if not, end up in eternal hell
So who is suffering - the Breath/Conscious of God; not the angles and not the matter.
Why condemn a part of Himself - a bit confusing for me!

Click to expand...

you're a bit confused. from water and spirit all things were created

gen 1:2 when the spirit moved upon the water then came into being heaven and earth.

israel was not a jew

If jesus if god then he had incest with mary to so she can give birth to him.
Some christians believe that jesus is god himself.

Fool said:

the character Jesus believed that he was in the Father and the Father was in himself; which blurs the line between self and God. That is oneness; especially if God is omnipresent.

So do you suppose Jesus was non-theist because he didn't worship what was outside but honored what was within everything, as himself?

That the distinction of flesh, materialism, forms, or densities, created the illusion of separatedness, or individuality; which is indivisible as one?

Click to expand...

I think much of the confusion about who Jesus was "he was in the Father and the Father was in himself" is a direct consequence of Jesus being God, and God being a duality. There is no son of God.

Repox said:

I think much of the confusion about who Jesus was "he was in the Father and the Father was in himself" is a direct consequence of Jesus being God, and God being a duality. There is no son of God.

Click to expand...

i disagree given the fact that God is dynamic and self-recreating. furthermore jesus said that on that day when the hearer understood, she/he would realize that jesus was in them too. so god omnipresent is god the All and in the all.

many as ONE

18 I will not leave you as orphans I will come to you. 19 Before long, the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me. Because I live, you also will live. 20 On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me, and I am in you.

Luciferi Baphomet said:

If jesus if god then he had incest with mary to so she can give birth to him.
Some christians believe that jesus is god himself.

Click to expand...

actually the Spirit comes from God; which is what everyone is animated by; so basically everyone is born from the same spirit but not from the same flesh.

the spirit enlivens, the flesh counts for nothing.

Fool said:

actually the Spirit comes from God; which is what everyone is animated by; so basically everyone is born from the same spirit but not from the same flesh.

the spirit enlivens, the flesh counts for nothing.

Click to expand...

How so?

Luciferi Baphomet said:

How so?

Click to expand...

How so? consciousness. Spirit in hebrew literally means mind. Spirit in Greek means wind, soul means psyche. In Ireland you will find motifs on rocks of spirals that symbolize wind. In buddhism, its about consciousness. Jesus was all about belief. .

agathodaemon


jesus was a naasseni

Fool said:

agathodaemon

Click to expand...

???

Luciferi Baphomet said:

???

Click to expand...

naas ireland

Naas - Wikipedia


ever played with nagaraja?




And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

what goes down must come up. as above so below and as below so above

Jesus saw infants being suckled. He said to his disciples, "These infants being suckled are like those who enter the kingdom." They said to him, "Shall we then, as children, enter the kingdom?" Jesus said to them, "When you make the two one, and when you make the inside like the outside and the outside like the inside, and the above like the below, and when you make the male and the female one and the same, so that the male not be male nor the female female; and when you fashion eyes in the place of an eye, and a hand in place of a hand, and a foot in place of a foot, and a likeness in place of a likeness; then will you enter the kingdom."

kundalini rising

shekinah rising

Carlita said:

I have to re-read this because the colors are blinding me. You don't have to believe what I say. Regardless of what you believe, it doesn't change anything. I don't see the difference in god sending a perfect human to die as a human to save humanity or god becoming a human to do the exact same thing. Just scripture says image of. When you are in an image of something, you are not the thing you are in image of but a representation, a copy, a mirror of.

It is the English language that translates jesus relating himself to the father by prepositions while directly saying he is not the father by referring to the father in opposition to his own nature and comments.

No trinitarian has ever talked with me through it just made claims that I'm lying. If you want to discuss it, so be. If not, you have your beliefs and I have my facts.

Not all beliefs need to be based on facts to be moral and helpful. Why fuss over it rather than discuss it?

Click to expand...

I believe the difference is whether God loves you enough to die for you or if He just doesn't care enough to do it Himself. That and the fact that the Bible says that Jesus is God should be enough for you.

I believe you are only talking of one scripture and there are many more so "just" is not the case.

I believe that is true but it doesn't change anything. I say that because the incarnation is not merely an image but also the presence of God in a body.

I believe He is not the Father since the Father represents God outside of the body of Jesus and Jesus is God inside the body. However God is one so when Jesus says He is one with the Father it means that God is one and not divided by the perception of a body.

I am doing my best to discuss it.

Corvus said:

If Jesus is God, then all mobile bags of meat, are God.

Click to expand...

I believe that is a non-sequitur. The conclusion doesn't follow from the premise.

Rasainthiran Menayah said:

Christian theology is a bit confusing.
God creates all matter
From matter (earth) He makes Adam
He then blows life (soul) into Adam - Gods breath is the "so called soul"
It is this "breath" that makes Adam "conscious"
Eve is made from the ribs of Adam - similar to vegetative propagation - no need to breath to make her conscious
Man (Adam & Eve) are condemned to Earth for disobeying Him
God makes angles (many) - by word of command
A few turns against Him (refer Milton)
Creates Hell for them, instead of destroying them - but they do not suffer in Hell.
Now the "soul or Gods Breath & Conscious" has to choose Him, if not, end up in eternal hell
So who is suffering - the Breath/Conscious of God; not the angles and not the matter.
Why condemn a part of Himself - a bit confusing for me!

Click to expand...

Welcome to Rf.

I don't believe that follows from the concept of breathing in. God does not breathe in Himself but our spirits instead.

I don't hold to orthodox Christian views on this. I believe man was created by word in Gen 1 and the creation of Gen 2 is a recreation of a dead race by cloning. However cloning does not achieve a human spirit or even life but only the flesh. It is only God who can breathe life and a spirit into a body.

Fool said:

you're a bit confused. from water and spirit all things were created

gen 1:2 when the spirit moved upon the water then came into being heaven and earth.

israel was not a jew

Click to expand...

I believe you are confused, heaven and earth does not necessarily mean all things.