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I prayed to all the gods, none have answered back...

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
So do you believe in God now or not? Your answer is unclear, but you said that we manifest our own gods. Does that then make them real? Or just images within the mind?

The subconscious mind manifests reality to the conscious mind.

Our reality is what has been manifested and presented to our conscious self by the subconscious mind.

You accept or reject what seems right to you. It's still a gamble that it's the truth.

Do I believe in God? No, since I'm certain I could sub consciously manifest the experience of a God. So how could I trust that experience.

However, our reality is just images in our mind. So does it matter if God is just another image created subconsciously for our conscious experience?

My conclusion is that it doesn't matter as long as you are a good person and happy.

However it seems we have some control over the reality that the subconscious manifest for us. Not much but some. Some folks have more control, some less.

I suspect if I wanted to I could manifest more spiritual experiences but knowing that I'm consciously kind of controlling it, what's the point?

I'm constantly physically in pain. I can control to some degree that experience of pain. So is the pain real? Is the experience of God real?

The experience of both is or has been a real experience of my conscious self.

To what extent can I control my experience of reality remains an interesting question.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Sorry but I find that imaginative. I don't know that many people, and I know 4 who were atheists that became Christians. One of them was a member here.

Also, where has @Revoltingest been for the last few days? I have this weird feeling that he's decided to leave us so he can pastor a church.

Didn't say it was impossible. Folks have their reasons for returning to religion. Did any of them mention having God answer their prayers?

Revoltingest? I don't know, not among the top posters for the week. That is unusual.
 

Brickjectivity

wind and rain touch not this brain
Staff member
Premium Member
Didn't say it was impossible. Folks have their reasons for returning to religion. Did any of them mention having God answer their prayers?
Hmmm, no. In fact none of them mentioned getting prayers answered except maybe Deirdre, but I don't remember clearly whether she did. You could ask her as she's a member here.
 

Jainarayan

ॐ नमो भगवते वासुदेवाय
Staff member
Premium Member
Why not? If they are supposed to be greater than us and have magical abilities, why couldn't they heal me if they wanted to?

I believe they care, listen and respond. They don't necessarily give us what we want, but what we need.

How that squares with a person's misfortunes or what the person perceives as misfortune I can't say, not having the gods' wide-angle view.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
I want to know more about the idea of reincarnation and what makes people believe in it.

It's another flavor of inventing a continued existence out of the fear of not existing. It's an understandably powerful urge in human beings. Unfortunately, there's no actual evidence that there is any type of continued existence after death, no matter how many people engage in wishful thinking.
 

SabahTheLoner

Master of the Art of Couch Potato Cuddles
In my opinion, gods being kind to humans just because they can is a misconception. It doesn't mean they can't be kind, just that they have other things to do. Or the human isn't showing them a sign they should be helped.

I used to be just atheistic, but in truth I'm also a soft polytheist and agnostic. I believe the gods exist as represtations of something, and you can't really prove if they are anything outside of that. Are they conscious? That's hard to answer, since consciousness is a broad term in the first place. But if you believe in something, it does help.

I'll tell you a story. I actually have a lot of sudden pains constantly. Everything from a few-minute heart burn to sudden stabbing sensations in the spine. I don't know what causes the pain but part of it is likely hereditary. One day, I was tired of this pain. I did some magic, as I have been doing to seek my religious stance, but I actually spoke to a goddess of healing this time (instead of focusing on the pain). The next night, in my sleep, she actually appeared in my dream and healed me with light. I didn't even have a sore joint for two weeks after that. Was she real or just my imagination? Either way, the gods must have something to do with our minds. They are with us, as a part of us, but separate from our own consciousness. They are not our superiors, but our equals of another existence.

This goddess never received any devotion from me before. I came to her, and I said "this is what is wrong. I want to sleep without feeling pain. I am crying myself to sleep until four in the morning because it hurts so much. I can't see a doctor immediately and I can't take pills all the time. I read about your powers and I could use just enough to function again. Please ease my pain, for some time. I would be thankful if you could do that." And she did that. No daily prayer or sign of interest prior was required. I treated her more like a person than a divine entity and I got a clear answer from her. Now I make a point to give her thanks every week.

Am I still in pain? Sometimes. We can't always control our life. But thanks to this one goddess, who at first I doubted even existed, and I came to in my most painful moment, with a strong desire to not be in pain, and now I can function again on a physical level. My mental health has become better as well, because I'm in less pain and my mindset changed slightly now that I'm not focusing on it as much.

Natural belief is not forced. We believe in what we see. Everyone will see differently. I think the question most people are really asking when trying to find their religion is "How can I describe what I believe to other people?" Maybe if no one answered you yet, you're probably not realizing that not everyone is Jesus. Jesus creates miracles for the "good people". Maybe this miracle mindset doesn't work for you. Be creative and approach the gods with a less Christian mindset. Don't pray, ask. Don't devote, converse. Don't praise, speak. They might behave a little differently. Even if they don't heal directly, you'll probably feel better just by speaking your concerns and fears to them.
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
Interesting answer, but I have to reply similar to above. If I was a doctor and some nice lady came to me asking for help curing a condition that she has and it's in my power to relieve her burden and she offers something in return that is valuable to me (such as a bit of money), why wouldn't I help her? I think the same of the gods. I pray to them "I will offer you whatever you desire", and I am sincere and believe myself to be good hearted. I could not ignore the call of an afflicted innocent. Why should they?

Speaking just of my own experiences, there are a few of things that come to mind here.

The first is that the gods hold domain or authority over particular aspects of reality, not everything. Classical monotheism does not have this issue, as they proclaim their god does everything, but in polytheistic religions, the gods are specialists of a sort. Put another way, most of the gods are not akin to doctors, so it makes no sense to ask them for aid.

The second thing I think of is that relationships with the gods do not happen overnight, I feel it is rude to ask favors from someone you do not have a rapport with. When I develop those relationships, I also don't come at from the angle of "I want this deity to do me favors," I come at it more from "what do you want to teach me so I can pass it on in the world as your agent?" I find getting my ego out of the way to be important. The gods are, after all, greater than I am. Due humility and respect is something I feel is important.

A third thing I keep in mind is the gods are not humans. I tend to feel many humans excessively anthropomorphize their gods. There are good reasons to do that, but while using that tool I find it vital to not forget they are not humans. Expecting them to think or act like humans is folly to me. I don't hold the expectation that the gods pay attention to me, or that they are (to put it crudely) cosmic sugar daddies.
I suppose if one does hold that perspective, it might be a difficult one to break.

In my path, the role of the gods is to worship and honor them, not to beg favors. If I want favors, I do that work myself with spellcraft or more mundane, less esoteric means. This is a different framework than many are accustomed to, certainly, and probably ill-suited for those who are not walking similar paths. On the plus side, I don't have to deal with the "problem of evil" because I don't assume the gods give a damn, or that they are nice. :D
 

BSL

Atheist God
Okay. So I am chronically ill. I was raised in a Christian family. My mum kept telling me Jesus would heal me. But after time I realised my belief in him and prayers were doing nothing. Even when I tried sincerely to hold onto the faith. So I became atheist. But every now and again I still get the urge to pray. So I pray to other deities from other religions since Jesus didn't respond. Well, mostly Hindu deities since I like Hinduism (Durga/Shiva). But still nothing.

Maybe I should try praying to as many different gods as possible from as many different pantheons and see if any of them decide to respond and help me? Maybe I should at least try it. I don't think gods are really out there, but maybe if they are one will actually show themselves to me. Why should I believe in a being that supposedly has the power to manifest itself but doesn't? Are they not real? Do they just not care? Maybe they are not really powerful afterall?
Make me your God and you will be able to cure all your illnesses. Try me.
 

Jonathan Ainsley Bain

Logical Positivist
Okay. So I am chronically ill. I was raised in a Christian family. My mum kept telling me Jesus would heal me. But after time I realised my belief in him and prayers were doing nothing. Even when I tried sincerely to hold onto the faith. So I became atheist. But every now and again I still get the urge to pray. So I pray to other deities from other religions since Jesus didn't respond. Well, mostly Hindu deities since I like Hinduism (Durga/Shiva). But still nothing.

Maybe I should try praying to as many different gods as possible from as many different pantheons and see if any of them decide to respond and help me? Maybe I should at least try it. I don't think gods are really out there, but maybe if they are one will actually show themselves to me. Why should I believe in a being that supposedly has the power to manifest itself but doesn't? Are they not real? Do they just not care? Maybe they are not really powerful afterall?

Perhaps you already have the capacity to find the answer to your illness through normal means?
God will not help us do things that we can accomplish without direct intervention.
Have you tried doing an internet search on your symptoms cross-reference with the keyword 'diet' perhaps?
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
To mirror what Frankenstein and Quintessence have said, praying to a good number of Pagan gods wouldn't be much help for chronic illness. I know that it seems unfair, but only from a christian way of thinking.

To put it short, the Gods aren't here for us, they're here for everything. Even the Gods that are relevant to healing, such as Frigga, Freyr and Freyja, can't really do anything past what has already been done; as we believe, they taught us to heal, so that we might be able to help certain ailments for ourselves. A doctor might pray to Freyja to guide their hand during a procedure, but they're still the one doing the work.

Normally, when we pray to the Gods, we do so for things that we can't do. Bringing weather, growing crops (we plant the seed and give it water, but past that it's up to the Gods), leading souls to their resting destination. For things that we can do, we should.

If you would wish to pray to them, by all means do. But the answer wouldn't be magical healing - life isn't The Craft - I would expect it to more be a pamphlet for affordable medicines, a call from your doctor with some good news, something like that; fate tipping in your favor to give some relief.
 

Araceli Cianna

Active Member
The subconscious mind manifests reality to the conscious mind.

Our reality is what has been manifested and presented to our conscious self by the subconscious mind.

You accept or reject what seems right to you. It's still a gamble that it's the truth.

Do I believe in God? No, since I'm certain I could sub consciously manifest the experience of a God. So how could I trust that experience.

However, our reality is just images in our mind. So does it matter if God is just another image created subconsciously for our conscious experience?

My conclusion is that it doesn't matter as long as you are a good person and happy.

However it seems we have some control over the reality that the subconscious manifest for us. Not much but some. Some folks have more control, some less.

I suspect if I wanted to I could manifest more spiritual experiences but knowing that I'm consciously kind of controlling it, what's the point?

I'm constantly physically in pain. I can control to some degree that experience of pain. So is the pain real? Is the experience of God real?

The experience of both is or has been a real experience of my conscious self.

To what extent can I control my experience of reality remains an interesting question.

Thank you, this is a really brilliant response and explains everything clearly. I think your way of seeing things is cool.
 

Araceli Cianna

Active Member
It's another flavor of inventing a continued existence out of the fear of not existing. It's an understandably powerful urge in human beings. Unfortunately, there's no actual evidence that there is any type of continued existence after death, no matter how many people engage in wishful thinking.

Yes, I can relate to this. When I really questioned everything I believed in, in the end I wanted to continue believing in Theism because I was afraid of dying. I try not to let that fear control me now though.
 

Araceli Cianna

Active Member
Because it obviously doesn't work. Go see a doctor instead.

Yes lol I am seeing a doctor thanks :) But I have an illness that doesn't have a cure right now. It can only be managed. Which is still good. I am not complaining, doctors are wonderful. I think really there needs to be some actual evidence that these deities exist.
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
My understanding is that we are in a soul developing process having experiences that make us develop our souls. Characteristics of an older soul include increased love, wisdom and detachment from the temporary. And yes, souls do accept physical experiences that from our worldly perspective look less fortunate.

As for why I came to believe in reincarnation, my interest started with studying the paranormal and those sources that can best explain what is going on. Those explanations almost invariably included the idea of reincarnation from western Theosophical teachings to eastern (Indian) religions.

Secondly, there is evidence that can be verified of people remembering details of past lives that can be investigated. The most famous researcher of such things is Dr. Ian Stevenson nd his investigation of childhood reincarnation memories. It appears that children still remember more and the memory fades as the child develops in the new life. Here's a sample case:

According to these accounts, when she was about four years old, she told her parents that her real home was in Mathura where her husband lived, about 145 km from her home in Delhi. Discouraged by her parents, she ran away from home at age six, trying to reach Mathura. Back home, she stated in school that she was married and had died ten days after having given birth to a child. Interviewed by her teacher and headmaster, she used words from the Mathura dialect and divulged the name of her merchant husband, "Kedar Nath". The headmaster located a merchant by that name in Mathura who had lost his wife, Lugdi Devi, nine years earlier, ten days after having given birth to a son. Kedar Nath traveled to Delhi, pretending to be his own brother, but Shanti Devi immediately recognized him and Lugdi Devi's son. As she knew several details of Kedar Nath's life with his wife, he was soon convinced that Shanti Devi was indeed the reincarnation of Lugdi Devi. When Mahatma Gandhi heard about the case, he met the child and set up a commission to investigate. The commission traveled with Shanti Devi to Mathura, arriving on 15 November 1935. There she recognized several family members, including the grandfather of Lugdi Devi. She found out that Kedar Nath had neglected to keep a number of promises he had made to Lugdi Devi on her deathbed. She then traveled home with her parents. The commission's report concluded that Shanti Devi was indeed the reincarnation of Lugdi Devi.[2]
That all makes sense to me. Beyond that for me personally I can't believe in an arbitrary and capricious deity who doles out pleasure and suffering in what appears to be a random way.

And that changes my attitude toward unavoidable suffering. Of course if there is a medical cure or at least some pain-relieving treatment, that's wonderful. Otherwise, I assume there's a reason behind it and rather than look for a miracle, it becomes important to me, at least, to approach it in a certain way, a way that this round expresses: "May the long time sunshine call you. All love surround you. And the pure light within you; guide your way on"
 

The Kilted Heathen

Crow FreyjasmaðR
I think really there needs to be some actual evidence that these deities exist.
Woah, slow your roll. You're the one here seeking divine help, and trying to pray to various gods. We're trying to help guide you in that endeavor, and give you useful advice so that you don't have the wrong impression or expectation. If you don't believe in these gods, why pray to them?
 

james bond

Well-Known Member
Okay. So I am chronically ill. I was raised in a Christian family. My mum kept telling me Jesus would heal me. But after time I realised my belief in him and prayers were doing nothing. Even when I tried sincerely to hold onto the faith. So I became atheist. But every now and again I still get the urge to pray. So I pray to other deities from other religions since Jesus didn't respond. Well, mostly Hindu deities since I like Hinduism (Durga/Shiva). But still nothing.

Maybe I should try praying to as many different gods as possible from as many different pantheons and see if any of them decide to respond and help me? Maybe I should at least try it. I don't think gods are really out there, but maybe if they are one will actually show themselves to me. Why should I believe in a being that supposedly has the power to manifest itself but doesn't? Are they not real? Do they just not care? Maybe they are not really powerful afterall?

If there wasn't an answer, then it's probably time to ask someone who knows better about these situations such as your pastor. Did you ask your Mom? Maybe she knows or knows of someone better equipped to analyze your situation. Far too many times, one analyzes what happened and it usually isn't correct. I've done it myself in the past.
 

URAVIP2ME

Veteran Member
Okay. So I am chronically ill. I was raised in a Christian family. My mum kept telling me Jesus would heal me. But after time I realised my belief in him and prayers were doing nothing. Even when I tried sincerely to hold onto the faith. So I became atheist. But every now and again I still get the urge to pray. So I pray to other deities from other religions since Jesus didn't respond. Well, mostly Hindu deities since I like Hinduism (Durga/Shiva). But still nothing.
Maybe I should try praying to as many different gods as possible from as many different pantheons and see if any of them decide to respond and help me? Maybe I should at least try it. I don't think gods are really out there, but maybe if they are one will actually show themselves to me. Why should I believe in a being that supposedly has the power to manifest itself but doesn't? Are they not real? Do they just not care? Maybe they are not really powerful afterall?

So very sorry you have to deal with being chronically ill - Numbers 6:24-26.
I think your mother meant well about Jesus' healing, but was Not aware of the time frame for healing.
Healing for earth's nations (us) is still ahead of us according to Revelation 22:2.
Also, perhaps your mother was Not aware of Satan's challenge as recorded at Job 2:4-5.
Satan challenges ALL of us. Touch our 'flesh' ( loose physical health ) and we would Not serve God.
Under adverse conditions both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.
In Scripture I find that while on Earth that Jesus only cured or healed some people, so Jesus was just giving us a preview, or a coming attraction, of what Jesus will be doing in the future on a grand-global scale during his coming 1,000-year governmental rulership over Earth begins. Then, at that time, No one will say, " I am sick........" according to Isaiah 33:24.
So, through the pages of Scripture we can see God does care - 1 Peter 5:7, because Scripture does explain that healing is future, and healing is coming to Earth as recorded in chapter 35 of Isaiah.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Yes, I can relate to this. When I really questioned everything I believed in, in the end I wanted to continue believing in Theism because I was afraid of dying. I try not to let that fear control me now though.

Yeah, I'd like to continue to exist. Existence is pretty cool, despite the pain and suffering that comes with it.

I figure that if I find myself still existing after death then I'll just deal with that situation when I face it.

If oblivion then I won't know. I won't be around to feel the lack of anything. There's literally nothing to fear.
 

Epic Beard Man

Bearded Philosopher
Okay. So I am chronically ill. I was raised in a Christian family. My mum kept telling me Jesus would heal me. But after time I realised my belief in him and prayers were doing nothing. Even when I tried sincerely to hold onto the faith. So I became atheist. But every now and again I still get the urge to pray. So I pray to other deities from other religions since Jesus didn't respond. Well, mostly Hindu deities since I like Hinduism (Durga/Shiva). But still nothing.

Maybe I should try praying to as many different gods as possible from as many different pantheons and see if any of them decide to respond and help me? Maybe I should at least try it. I don't think gods are really out there, but maybe if they are one will actually show themselves to me. Why should I believe in a being that supposedly has the power to manifest itself but doesn't? Are they not real? Do they just not care? Maybe they are not really powerful afterall?

I'm neither Christian, Jew, nor Muslim but in reference to the above comment when you said:

"So I am chronically ill. I was raised in a Christian family. My mum kept telling me Jesus would heal me. But after time I realised my belief in him and prayers were doing nothing. Even when I tried sincerely to hold onto the faith. So I became atheist."

I have one solid question to ask....Was your prayers to God, Jesus or whoever, the result of your illness or your willingness to become closer to God? It seems that your attempt to channel your connection to various deities is the result of your medical condition to which is motivating you. There is a verse in Luke 4:12 where Jesus states in the following:

"Jesus answered, "It is said: 'Do not put the Lord your God to the test.'"

For spiritual reasons I personally do not think it is appropriate to test an incorporeal deity that is person the ruler of the universe to heal you. In the grand scheme of things the universe owes you nothing. Of course it is only natural that we wish to be healthy and live longer and so we turn to deities of higher power but I do not think this should be our motivation.
 
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