Even the word 'pudding' is very cultural. Only a few of my Tamil friends would recognise what it is. We're so diverse.
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How are these Great Beings explained?
- Thread starter loverofhumanity
- Start date
Even the word 'pudding' is very cultural. Only a few of my Tamil friends would recognise what it is. We're so diverse.
Why do men reject God you ask? Now every HOLY SCRIPTURE tells us why we as mankind choose our self over the better self of our God within with His Laws, in one way or another.
In your practice, do you not try each day to find your better self?
Regards Tony
I like to see each person no different from any other person on this planet no matter what they believe or what is their culture. At the same time knowing culture supplies a diversity we have to come to Love and understand.
In the end I see that those that look for good in all things, do just that, look for the good. I see those that wish to find fault in anything, do just that, look for fault.
Therein lays the path for those that look for God in all things and the path of those that look for God in their own way, or in no way.
All from God is Good, man has been created with all the potential to be Good. Then their are our choices of Body and Spirit.
The question I would ask is, why is it so hard for humanity to consider that all our good is from One Source?
Regards Tony
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We use different terminology. I have never found a relationship between theism/atheism and dharma/adharma. I think it's a myth that theists are more moral than atheists. Of course my atheist father had something to do with that. He let his children know about what he thought of adharmic people.
In Hinduism, we do try to improve our personal character. Wouldn't call it a better self though. That must be Baha'i' talk.
As a monistic Saiva Siddhantin, Siva is all and In all, Good comes from many sources, that's why. Clean water flows in many rivers. The idea that it is one source is a vast oversimplication. Little wonder people don't go for it.
This one aspect can be discussed. I am not one for having so many questions asked when it all resolves around a basic understanding of, 'who was and still is Christ'? and 'Who are the Prophets'?
These words following were used when Christ says in Revelation 3:11, "I am coming soon. Hold on to what you have, so that no one will take your crown."
He is talking about Christians that have Faith in Him, Christ to hold on to that belief for what is to come will be a test and this test is seen in the next passages;
Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name".
It is quite clear that Christ has a 'New Name', to which we must receive to overcome.
Regards Tony
Again we are talking about the same good in our own Frames of Reference. Thus when we look to find the good, we start to break the barriers of those Frames. Talking and looking at differences only compounds the misunderstandings.
Improving our Personal Character, is looking for the Good within us. To those that believe in God, this is the motivation and the praise, to those that do not, and in both cases the good is its own reward.
Regards Tony
How so, what is the source of all water? That each stream has a different name does not stop the water having the same source. All have evaporation back into clouds and the moisture moves around the earth to fall into other sources and other streams.
We can always find the way things are joined together. It is decay when we take them apart. Sorry had to be quick, am off to work
Regards Tony
Even 'good' means different things to different people. I think worship of idols is a good thing, whereas Baha'i's don't. I think reincarnation is a good thing, as we get many chances, but Baha's don't believe in reincarnation at all.
Seeing differences is nothing more than good observation. It doesn't mean an intolerant nature as a result. As a teacher I HAD to notice all the differences in the kids learning style, or otherwise I wouldn't have been the teacher I was.
I just don't see how Baha'i's seem to feel that the ability to notice differences is such an intolerant unacceptable thing. I like my Christian brothers and sisters just they way they are.
How so, what is the source of all water? That each stream has a different name does not stop the water having the same source. All have evaporation back into clouds and the moisture moves around the earth to fall into other sources and other streams.
We can always find the way things are joined together. It is decay when we take them apart. Sorry had to be quick, am off to work
Regards Tony
Many sources ... conscience, oral teachings, scripture, intuition, compassion, nature. Yes there is an underlying presence called Sat-Chit-Ananda. But God's manifestation is vast, and we're only familiar with this planet.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
The new name (and body) of christ is not bahaullah. That is like saying muhammad is jesus new name because his name means worthy of praise.
It is not hard to understand.
Bahai belief and christian belief are completely different.
The only similarities I see between the two is belief in god and belief in Your Own prophets.
That is all.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
@Tony Bristow-Stagg
The Apostle John wrote to the Churches of Asia as a group saying that "he" (as a Church-a group of people-a body); he said...
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(To the Church of) Ephesus.*
“To the angel of the church* in Ephesus,* write this:
“‘The one who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks in the midst of the seven gold lampstands says this:** which I also hate.
* I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.”’a the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of ehim who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
g“ ‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. for my name’s sake, and you have not grown weary. the love you had at first. the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. pHe who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’
--
John writes that god is talking to these Churches as one group/body (just as, if I remember, Israel being she and the body of Christ his church being she) that if they do not obey god, they will not be given a new name (and new body elsewhere in revelations). They will not be saved and go to heaven. It is talking about multiple people not a prophet and that only god not a prophet will save them.
You're saying that Bahaullah is this chosen person. The chosen person is someone from Isreal-a jew not a Persian. His new name mirrors the character of a jewish man-jesus-who came to save believers from their sins. Bahaullah does not do this.
It is quite clear that Christ has a 'New Name', to which we must receive to overcome.
Christ has a new name given by god. The temple is the new church and the new jeruselum. Only christ has that role of having a new name to own ithe new church-the body of christ. He is the only savior.
God is the only one who saves people through christ.
This has nothing to do with Bahaullah.
Muhammad means "worthy of praise"
Bahaullah (I forgot the meaning)
God is worthy of praise
but
no Muslim will mistake Muhammad for god just because he is worthy of praise for being the last prophet giving god's words of the Quran.
It is not the same with Bahai. Bahai can believe in manifestations as christians believe in the trinity all you guys want but christians trinity is not in the bible and the manifestations are not in any of the sacred texts you are talking about.
It's not about your belief. Once you say "Jesus said" you have to go by the body of christ not your and bahaullah's interpretations.
I cannot say "Krishna said... X" and my god says this is true through her prophet. No matter if it's written, chiseled on a wall, drawn in the sky, or written in dirt if it is not HIndu teaching, I am wrong.
You can believe whatever you want but to dictate truth of another person's faith is completely wrong.
I can talk about the bible because I lived it. I can't talk about the Quran and Hindu but I can with Buddhism as well.
What you are saying is factually wrong. Beliefs do not make something a fact. If it works for you, so be. Just try not to prove a practitioner wrong about his own belief. It is very disrespectful.
The Apostle John wrote to the Churches of Asia as a group saying that "he" (as a Church-a group of people-a body); he said...
-
(To the Church of) Ephesus.*
“To the angel of the church* in Ephesus,* write this:
“‘The one who holds the seven stars in his right hand and walks in the midst of the seven gold lampstands says this:** which I also hate.
* I will give the right to eat from the tree of life that is in the garden of God.”’a the angel of the church in Ephesus write: ‘The words of ehim who holds the seven stars in his right hand, who walks among the seven golden lampstands.
g“ ‘I know your works, your toil and your patient endurance, and how you cannot bear with those who are evil, but have tested those who call themselves apostles and are not, and found them to be false. for my name’s sake, and you have not grown weary. the love you had at first. the works you did at first. If not, I will come to you and remove your lampstand from its place, unless you repent. the Nicolaitans, which I also hate. pHe who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who conquers I will grant to eat of the tree of life, which is in the paradise of God.’
--
John writes that god is talking to these Churches as one group/body (just as, if I remember, Israel being she and the body of Christ his church being she) that if they do not obey god, they will not be given a new name (and new body elsewhere in revelations). They will not be saved and go to heaven. It is talking about multiple people not a prophet and that only god not a prophet will save them.
You're saying that Bahaullah is this chosen person. The chosen person is someone from Isreal-a jew not a Persian. His new name mirrors the character of a jewish man-jesus-who came to save believers from their sins. Bahaullah does not do this.
He is talking about Christians that have Faith in Him, Christ to hold on to that belief for what is to come will be a test and this test is seen in the next passages;
Revelation 3:12 "Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shallgo no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of myGod, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will writeupon him my new name".
It is quite clear that Christ has a 'New Name', to which we must receive to overcome.
Christ has a new name given by god. The temple is the new church and the new jeruselum. Only christ has that role of having a new name to own ithe new church-the body of christ. He is the only savior.
God is the only one who saves people through christ.
This has nothing to do with Bahaullah.
Muhammad means "worthy of praise"
Bahaullah (I forgot the meaning)
God is worthy of praise
but
no Muslim will mistake Muhammad for god just because he is worthy of praise for being the last prophet giving god's words of the Quran.
It is not the same with Bahai. Bahai can believe in manifestations as christians believe in the trinity all you guys want but christians trinity is not in the bible and the manifestations are not in any of the sacred texts you are talking about.
It's not about your belief. Once you say "Jesus said" you have to go by the body of christ not your and bahaullah's interpretations.
I cannot say "Krishna said... X" and my god says this is true through her prophet. No matter if it's written, chiseled on a wall, drawn in the sky, or written in dirt if it is not HIndu teaching, I am wrong.
You can believe whatever you want but to dictate truth of another person's faith is completely wrong.
I can talk about the bible because I lived it. I can't talk about the Quran and Hindu but I can with Buddhism as well.
What you are saying is factually wrong. Beliefs do not make something a fact. If it works for you, so be. Just try not to prove a practitioner wrong about his own belief. It is very disrespectful.
InvestigateTruth
Well-Known Member
I think if we look into, let's say, Islam, Christianity we would find, and perhaps be astonished that how exactly they all teach the same concepts. We would be even more astonished when we find out, that even non-Abrahamic Religions teach the same concepts. But we must be open minded, and willing to investigate the matters deeper rather than just seeing at the surface.
Let me elaborate this, by giving an example here, which specifically relates to this verse of Bible, which states, Christ returns with a New Name.
When we investigate into Recorded Traditions and Scriptures of Islam, we find that, there are many Traditions in Islam that State that All Prophets are one and the same. Muhammad had said, that He is All the Prophets. In another Words, they have said that, these Prophets have an outward individuality, and and inner Being. Their inner Being is one and the Same Person, who in every Age appears in the form of a New Person, with a new Name, a different body, among a people with a different language and culture.
Just imagine a Person, a divine Being, who every time appears with a different Name. It is the Manifestation of the Same Spirit, taking a different body every time. I can bring so many recorded traditions from Islamic Sources, who are from the Founders of Islam, having witness from Quran, teaching what I just said, about Oneness of Prophets.
Now, let's go back to Bible. Did not Jesus say John was Elijah who had reappeared? Let's think. How could Jesus say that these Two Prophets though appeared more than a thousand years apart, are the same? Jesus said, John was Elijah who had returned, but people did not recognize Him.
Now, it becomes evident, there are certain deep teachings, that exist in all religions, but we can only discover them, when we investigate deeply. Now, While thinking about the Oneness of Prophets, let's think, why Jesus said that, 'before Abraham I am', and He also said He will return again with a New Name?
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Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
It is very simple.
Mainstream christianity where christianity came not judaism says jesus Is god. I assume there is no trinity in bahai?
Mainstream and bible says there id literal resurrection. Bahai does not teach this.
The bible teaches only jewish prophets are chosen by god. Bahaullah is Persian am I right?
The apostles taught the holy spirit comes from christ. Its the spirit of christ that saves
Bahaullah does not have the spirit of christ. He has the spirit of god. Big big difference biblically speaking.
Communion and Eucharist is literal. Bahai believes its symbolic. Communion is the cornerstone of the christian faith. Bahaullah was never a part of this.
Islam never teaches any prophet IS god. Christians differ.
Jews do not accept jesus christ. Christians differ.
None of these are similar.
If jews do not accept jesus why in the world would they accept bahaullah? Name a literal and historical teaching approved by judaism And the jews that bahaullah is anywhere in their torah.
Jesus receives a new name and judges the churches of asia in revelations saying that if they don't get their act together they will not....
My batter is going..hold a sec
here we go
They will not be a part of the book of life. They will not go to heaven. Bahaullah is a gentile (he is not a jew). He is not saved. He is not part of the church. He is not blessed and baptized in the spirit of christ.
He has no place in the cornerstone of christian teaching. Ask a mainstream non syncretic christian if god has any other son other than christ. Ask a JW if god has any other prophet or messenger other than christ. Ask any person who knows christianity even indoctrinated in it and not syncretic in its teachings if christ is the only son of the christian god.
These are common sense stuff. It doesn't change in revelations. Christian teachings say that it's the same progressive jewish teachings from genesis to revelations. If they don't accept jewish teachings, why in the world would they accept Islam and Bahai teachings?
Bahai teaches there are many manifestations and educators of god. Christians teach only the prophets of the OT are educators of god and only one savior is the god of the jews and the gentiles.
Bahaullah is not in the Eucharist. That, alone, says there is only one savior. New name-new body-is saying that christians will shed their flesh and be pure in god's eyes. Bahaullah is not christian. In christianity, he will not be saved.
“He Who is your Lord, the All-Merciful, cherisheth in His heart the desire of beholding the entire human race as one soul and one body.”— Bahá’u’lláh
"Just as a body, though one, has many parts, but all its many parts form one body, so it is with Christ." ~Corinthians 12:12
Bahaullah teaches one human raise. Christianity teaches one body in christ.
Judaism teaches:
Most Jews hold that being the "Chosen People" means that they have been place on earth to fulfill a certain purpose. Traditional proof for Jewish "chosenness" is found in the Torah, the Jewish bible, in the Book of Deuteronomy (chapter 14) where it says: "For you are a holy people to Hashem your God, and God has chosen you to be his treasured people from all the nations that are on the face of the earth." In the Book of Genesis (chapter 17) it also written: "And I [G-d] will establish My covenant between Me and you [the Jewish people] and your descendants after you in their generations, for an everlasting covenant, to be God to you and your descendants after you."
Bahaullah is not a Jew.
There are seven covenants in the bible. Bahaullah is not part of any of these covenants. Yes, you and Islam are from the god of abraham. If you compare it to christian teachings, only Bahai tries to find a connection. Islam doesn't even attempt to find a connection between christian teachings insofar they see christ no more than a prophet and NOT as god.
I can go on.
I mentioned to Tony about the letters John spoke to the Churches in Asia in revelations concerning the new name issue.
It is find you want to find connections to bring unity. The fact is there are no connections.
My biggest issue isn't trying to find connections between Bahai and Christiantiy. That's a given. There are none. But Hindu and Buddhism!!!
That makes me doubt a lot of the interpretations you have with Christiantiy if you put Hindu and Buddhism into this. If you stuck with GOA, then I'd have a different perspective. Since you guys don't, I don't know how to interpret what you're saying because you are putting eastern views with western views. Jewish views with Arabian views. And not considering the differing cultures and initiations to these religions with which these religions teach.
I mean christians and muslims kill each other and you're trying to unite their beliefs rather than accept their differences and address the problem not unify their belief? That causes more problems than just plain killing.
Anyway, this bugs the mess out of me.. to put it lightly.
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Vaderecta
Active Member
Alcohol is a drug but you seem to be separating them in less than useful ways. Many religions have drug use as a core part of their religion. We could go with the body and blood of christ... (One is alcohol?) The other that immediately comes to mind is Ayahuasca.
The last days of whatever religion are something you have to deal with. You could be a Jehovah Witness or quoting revelations but that great danger is internally in your mind and something you need to personally deal with. (And all the other end of days folks need to deal with their own end of days legends personally)
Ironically we will all face a real end of days. The idea that you think saying all these things will become more obvious in the near future is something unique or persuading is an interesting fiction you find true. People have been using that line since before you were born. It's like walking up to a girl and asking her if she fell from heaven because she looks like an angel.
Both are embarrassing. (The former is arguably more so)
The question as to whether the other Faiths agree Who Baha'u'llah is. Of course they are becoming gradually accepting of this. Proof is us Baha'is who are from all religious backgrounds have investigated the truth and found Baha'u'llah is the fulfillment of prophecies in our Holy Books and traditions.
If one care to read early Baha'i history one will find Mullas and clergy becoming Baha'i's and the most learned Islamic scholars accepting Baha'u'llah. This is what caused such consternation amongst the clergy and made them oppose the Faith as they were frightened that with so many prominent members of their own Faith joining with the Baha'is then they would become extinct.
If one care to read early Baha'i history one will find Mullas and clergy becoming Baha'i's and the most learned Islamic scholars accepting Baha'u'llah. This is what caused such consternation amongst the clergy and made them oppose the Faith as they were frightened that with so many prominent members of their own Faith joining with the Baha'is then they would become extinct.
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
Do you understand people do not need to accept Bahaullah to achieve world peace?
Do you mean to tell me years down the line finally everyone will accept Bahaullah's message?
Yes at this time in History you are correct. The next stage in Human Evolution needs to be in finding our Unity. This does not need all peoples to eccept Baha'u'llah.
It is also true that a future will see a substantial portion of the worlds populations becomming Baha'i. If one looks at the growth of both Islam and Christianity as World Faiths, this is not hard to predict.
The Baha'i Writings are the elixer that offers a path to this Unity, where all else does not.
It is very Logical progression.
Regards Tony
Unveiled Artist
Veteran Member
That is just a sad thing to say. That means the path I follow doesnt bring unity.
That is not unity among diversity.
Its idea is not bad. In my opinion, its immoral.
Ha Ha Carlita. You just like to stir the Pot, as nothing Baha'u'llah has written, excludes you from joining the process of this unstoppable path to Unity in your own way in your own belief in your own time.
What was said is just plain and simple, Baha'u'llah has given and recorded a path to the Unity of mankind, this advice was addressed to all the leaders of the World in His time, and they still are available. An elixir was and is offered. Who else has done this?
Also since then many documents have also been drafted for All of Humanity to consider, this is one of them; Promise of World Peace - Bahá'í Reference Library - The Promise of World Peace, Pages 1-3
Please feel free to post your path to the Unity of Humanity, I am very happy to know of others that have paved and mapped the full process to the foundations for World Unity.
Be well be happy and regards Tony
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