Two Kinds of Salvation

Two Kinds of Salvation.

1. Personal salvation and;

2. Universal salvation.

Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noahide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.

Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)

Ben Avraham said:

Two Kinds of Salvation.

1. Personal salvation and;

2. Universal salvation.

Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noahide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.

Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)

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Jew doesnt have the same meaning as it does in the scripture. If you think it does, then non rabbinical bible persons arent jewish. Obviously ridiculous, and very problematic for your theory.

This must be the ol' if I don't get enough attention, try and try again.

Ben Avraham said:

Two Kinds of Salvation.

1. Personal salvation and;

2. Universal salvation.

Only universal salvation is free; personal salvation is as expensive as the kind of transgression committed against the Law.

Universal salvation is the one promised to Noah through the Noahide Covenant which the Lord established with all Mankind. Soon after the Flood, the Lord promised Noah never to allow another catastrophe the size of the Flood as all living beings, except for Noah's family, had suffered universal destruction. What about if Mankind turned again as evil as at the time of Noah? The Lord had to raise a new people from the loins of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob as the pledge or assurance to His promise of universal salvation for Mankind. Israel had risen. Now, as long as Israel remained as a People before the Lord forever, the earth would remain seed-time and harvest and cold and heat, and summer and winter, and day and night would not cease. In other words, as long as the natural laws functioned properly, Mankind was saved; freely saved. (Gen. 8:21,22)

Prophet Jeremiah must have read the above text and connected the Lord's pledge with the permanence of Israel as a People before the Lord forever as long as the natural laws functioned properly, thus, Israel would guarantee the Lord's promise of universal salvation of Mankind. (Jeremiah 31:35-37)

Reading the Christian NT the other day, I came about John 4:22 and I was reminded that Jesus must have read both texts above; the one of Genesis and that of Jeremiah and concluded that indeed salvation comes from the Jews. From the Jews, he said, and not from one among the Jews.

Now, for personal salvation, the bill would have to be paid according to the transgression of the Law; the law of cause and effect; some times as expensive as the loss of life itself. This kind of salvation is so serious that, as Jesus himself said, if we come to the Temple to plead for salvation and we are reminded that some one has an issue with us, we must leave all behind and go set things right with our neighbor and only then return to the altar to plead for salvation. (Mat. 5:23,24)

Click to expand...

There's only ONE salvation plan for ALL men created in the image of God. Since all the minds of men are connected the same exact source called God where all visible images and thoughts come from, only the visible images and thoughts during this temporary generation will be destroyed, not the created men.

eldios said:

There's only ONE salvation plan for ALL men created in the image of God. Since all the minds of men are connected the same exact source called God where all visible images and thoughts come from, only the visible images and thoughts during this temporary generation will be destroyed, not the created men.

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Your mention of only one salvation plan, you must be referring to personal salvation whose plan is based on obedience to God's Law. If that's not so, what plan are you talking about?

syncretic said:

Jew doesnt have the same meaning as it does in the scripture. If you think it does, then non rabbinical bible persons arent jewish. Obviously ridiculous, and very problematic for your theory.

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Sorry, but I have no idea what you are talking about. All Jews are Jews until they decide to accept the faith of the Gentiles.

eldios said:

There's only ONE salvation plan for ALL men created in the image of God. Since all the minds of men are connected the same exact source called God where all visible images and thoughts come from, only the visible images and thoughts during this temporary generation will be destroyed, not the created men.

Click to expand...

Here is something worh reading about different "salvations." One salvation only kept by jews (and converts) who accept tye laws of Moses: 613 laws. Those who are gentiles (such as christians) who are only obligated to follow the Noahic ten commandments. If I understand it correctly, Jews are saved by the Law. "Christian" gentiles are saved by sacrificial offering. Whats interesting is sacrifices are no longer made by jews (@Ben Avraham if Im right by saying?) Yet christians link sacrifice of jesus was the claim of the apostles to that of the jews. Yet, a jew would never aprove of "human" sacrifice. All sacrifices were animals.

Here is the kink: Judaism 101: Gentiles

Judaism is completely separate from christianity in regarda to salvation and obedience to gods commandments etc.

Ben Avraham said:

Your mention of only one salvation plan, you must be referring to personal salvation whose plan is based on obedience to God's Law. If that's not so, what plan are you talking about?

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There's no plan of salvation based on our obedience to God's Law. All men who are created in the image of God will remain in God as their flesh perishes. The flesh of man is only a formed illusion in the mind of a created man which dies off during this temporary generation. This means the flesh of man is not man's true created existence in God.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Man was created as the "breath of life" before any visible flesh ( male and female ) could be observed by man.

Carlita said:

Here is something worh reading about different "salvations." One salvation only kept by jews (and converts) who accept tye laws of Moses: 613 laws. Those who are gentiles (such as christians) who are only obligated to follow the Noahic ten commandments. If I understand it correctly, Jews are saved by the Law. "Christian" gentiles are saved by sacrificial offering. Whats interesting is sacrifices are no longer made by jews (@Ben Avraham if Im right by saying?) Yet christians link sacrifice of jesus was the claim of the apostles to that of the jews. Yet, a jew would never aprove of "human" sacrifice. All sacrifices were animals.

Here is the kink: Judaism 101: Gentiles

Judaism is completely separate from christianity in regarda to salvation and obedience to gods commandments etc.

Click to expand...

You need to understand that all Jews, Christians and Muslims are religious people who have never heard the voice of God or obeyed any of his commandments. None of them will be saved because they are not man's true created existence within God. Man was created in the image of God who is nothing but invisible information that will never be seen by us.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

God ( the Lord ) is "spirit" meaning that it is totally invisible.

2 Corinthians 3;
14: But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
15: Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds;
16: but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.
17: Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

John 6
63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

The spirit of God is the breath of life.

Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

So man is created in God first as spirit ( our Creator's thoughts ), then formed flesh within the mind of man can be observed. As the flesh perishes, the created man remains as spirit.

I Corinthians 5:

1: It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father's wife.
2: And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3: For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment
4: in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5: you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

There's only one salvation for created men.

Please don't bold red your font. I hurts my eyes. You can emphasise a point without needing to bold it. Also, I go by experiences and personal opinions since you are not Moses and John and I wouldn't mistake their experiences for yours.

eldios said:

You need to understand that all Jews, Christians and Muslims are religious people who have never heard the voice of God or obeyed any of his commandments.

None of them will be saved because they are not man's true created existence within God.

Man was created in the image of God who is nothing but invisible information that will never be seen by us.

Click to expand...

"None of them will be saved because they are not man's true created existence within God."

Those Jews who obey god's commandments are saved (if you want to call it that). They are god's chosen people from the beginning.

That, and this sounds more like an insult: they are not man's true existence within god? If they are not, are they Pagans? What are they if they are no longer god's people?

eldios said:

26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."

27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Click to expand...

eldios said:

God ( the Lord ) is "spirit" meaning that it is totally invisible.

Click to expand...

Okay.... I don't understand how this relates to my point.

eldios said:

14: But their minds were hardened; for to this day, when they read the old covenant, that same veil remains unlifted, because only through Christ is it taken away.
15: Yes, to this day whenever Moses is read a veil lies over their minds;
16: but when a man turns to the Lord the veil is removed.
17: Now the Lord is the Spirit, and where the Spirit of the Lord is, there is freedom.

Click to expand...

Remember, from a Jews point of view, Christian scripture holds no authority over them. This means nothing.

I am sure Judaism sees everyone as a child of god (hence your quote above-all creation not just the gentiles) as opposed to some christian denominations who only limit children to those who believe in him.

eldios said:

63: It is the spirit that gives life, the flesh is of no avail; the words that I have spoken to you are spirit and life.

Click to expand...

eldios said:

The spirit of God is the breath of life.

Click to expand...

This doesn't relate to my points. Now that you said this,

What is the "spirit of god"? Isn't that redundant?

Spirit is Spirit. Nothing more, nothing from, nothing to, nothing incarnated.

eldios said:

7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Click to expand...

eldios said:

So man is created in God first as spirit ( our Creator's thoughts ), then formed flesh within the mind of man can be observed. As the flesh perishes, the created man remains as spirit.

Click to expand...

I think Judaism differs in "flesh perishes but man remains as spirit".

eldios said:

I Corinthians 5:

1: It is actually reported that there is immorality among you, and of a kind that is not found even among pagans; for a man is living with his father's wife.
2: And you are arrogant! Ought you not rather to mourn? Let him who has done this be removed from among you.
3: For though absent in body I am present in spirit, and as if present, I have already pronounced judgment
4: in the name of the Lord Jesus on the man who has done such a thing. When you are assembled, and my spirit is present, with the power of our Lord Jesus,
5: you are to deliver this man to Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that his spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord Jesus.

Click to expand...

eldios said:

I Timothy 4:10
10: For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.

Click to expand...

Why the scriptures? Can you wrap up your point you're making by these scriptures?

Carlita said:

Please don't bold red your font. I hurts my eyes. You can emphasise a point without needing to bold it. Also, I go by experiences and personal opinions since you are not Moses and John and I wouldn't mistake their experiences for yours.



"None of them will be saved because they are not man's true created existence within God."

Those Jews who obey god's commandments are saved (if you want to call it that). They are god's chosen people from the beginning.

That, and this sounds more like an insult: they are not man's true existence within god? If they are not, are they Pagans? What are they if they are no longer god's people?





Okay.... I don't understand how this relates to my point.



Remember, from a Jews point of view, Christian scripture holds no authority over them. This means nothing.

I am sure Judaism sees everyone as a child of god (hence your quote above-all creation not just the gentiles) as opposed to some christian denominations who only limit children to those who believe in him.



This doesn't relate to my points. Now that you said this,

What is the "spirit of god"? Isn't that redundant?

Spirit is Spirit. Nothing more, nothing from, nothing to, nothing incarnated.



I think Judaism differs in "flesh perishes but man remains as spirit".





Why the scriptures? Can you wrap up your point you're making by these scriptures?

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If you read only the red bold letters of these scriptures, then you will get the knowledge necessary to know that a created man is different than the formed visible flesh of a created man. A created man is created as invisible data which is the stored thoughts of our Creator. The visible flesh of man is observed within the created mind of man from the processing of this data.

eldios said:

If you read only the red bold letters of these scriptures, then you will get the knowledge necessary to know that a created man is different than the formed visible flesh of a created man. A created man is created as invisible data which is the stored thoughts of our Creator. The visible flesh of man is observed within the created mind of man from the processing of this data.

Click to expand...

I can't read it. It hurts my eyes. I have a vision impairment.

How does this point relate to my post?

My post refers to salvation of the Jews are under the Law. Salvation for gentiles (according to the link I gave you) only under the Noahide law. From what jesus said, his law comes from Moses and Moses from his father.

Jews do not hold NT scriptures as authority; so, their salvation is not under christian criteria. They are saved directly by god. There is no longer a need for sacrifice in their eyes. For some reason, christians felt a need to carry that sacrifice on. It's all through the horrific christian history. Jews sacrifice animals not people.

They are two totally different views of being saved by god.

I just thought you'd be interested in the link.

Carlita said:

I can't read it. It hurts my eyes. I have a vision impairment.

How does this point relate to my post?

My post refers to salvation of the Jews are under the Law. Salvation for gentiles (according to the link I gave you) only under the Noahide law. From what jesus said, his law comes from Moses and Moses from his father.

Jews do not hold NT scriptures as authority; so, their salvation is not under christian criteria. They are saved directly by god. There is no longer a need for sacrifice in their eyes. For some reason, christians felt a need to carry that sacrifice on. It's all through the horrific christian history. Jews sacrifice animals not people.

They are two totally different views of being saved by god.

I just thought you'd be interested in the link.

Click to expand...

Christians and Jews are religious heathens who can't understand the biblical prophecies. Only us servants who testified to the knowledge of God called Christ during this millennium reign of Christ learn deep secrets of how we're created and a few chosen believers who listen to our gospel ( voice ) of God.

eldios said:

Genesis 1 26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Click to expand...

Impersonation of God's Attributes - Genesis 1:26

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."

The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.

Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are part of His essence, were impersonately involved in the formation of man.

Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.

Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."

Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.

It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.

I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.

Conclusion:

It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was personification of attributes.[/QUOTE]

eldios said:

There's no plan of salvation based on our obedience to God's Law. All men who are created in the image of God will remain in God as their flesh perishes. The flesh of man is only a formed illusion in the mind of a created man which dies off during this temporary generation. This means the flesh of man is not man's true created existence in God.

Genesis 1 26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth." 27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 2 7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being. Man was created as the "breath of life" before any visible flesh ( male and female ) could be observed by man.

Click to expand...

So, according to you, there is no plan of salvation based on our obedience to God's Law. Well, let's verify that statement of yours for some evidence of what you say. God's Law says, "Thou shall not murder." If you obey that commandment in God's Law, you are saved from the consequences as a result of committing a murder. Right or wrong? 100% right. That's what I call a plan of salvation based on our obedience of God's Law. If you decide not to follow that plan, either you will be jailed for life or euthanased for death.

Ben Avraham said:

So, according to you, there is no plan of salvation based on our obedience to God's Law. Well, let's verify that statement of yours for some evidence of what you say. God's Law says, "Thou shall not murder." If you obey that commandment in God's Law, you are saved from the consequences as a result of committing a murder. Right or wrong? 100% right. That's what I call a plan of salvation based on our obedience of God's Law. If you decide not to follow that plan, either you will be jailed for life or euthanased for death.

Click to expand...

No inhabitants on earth can obey any of the "Ten Commandments" that were written down by the prophet Moses, a servant of God. Only the spirit of man obeys God's commands, not the flesh.

Ben Avraham said:

Impersonation of God's Attributes - Genesis 1:26

"Let us make man in our image, after our likeness. Let them have dominion over... the whole earth."

The above passage of Genesis has been for years the trump card in the hands of Trinitarians to drop at the right time in the assumed thought that it will guarantee them to clean up the table, so to speak. Well, let them think again, because I have news. It's no longer that easy.

Elohim is incorporeal, and incorporeality reflects no image. But then again, how to harmonize the use of the pronouns in the plural form? The attributes of God, which are part of His essence, were impersonately involved in the formation of man.

Bear in mind that only in the creation of man was the statement issued: To make man at God's image. Since God has no visible image, and man does, it's only obvious that man's image would be according to God's attributes. Therefore, His attributes in a relative portion, were the active agent in the formation of man.

Now, it's imperative to focus on the pronouns used by the sacred writer, since the pronouns are anyways what Trinitarians use to think they have made their day. "Let US make MAN in OUR image and likeness. And let THEM have dominion over everything on earth."

Now, focus on the word MAN. It is in the singular form. Nevertheless, the purpose is for THEM to dominate the earth. If THEM were a reference to man, a clarification would be in order to explain the discrepancy in the Grammar. I mean, that it would be a reference to all men. This lack of clarification was not a lapse of the author, but intentional will to direct our minds to the attributes of God, which took part in the formation of man.

It's interesting and just convenient for Trinitarians to rapidly refer "us" and "our" to God Himself and hide any word of explanation on the plural pronoun "them," which could not be a reference to man. I hope they do not do this on purpose because it would be spiritual cruelty to hide the truth.

I hope we have settled this issue. Since "them" is not a reference to man but to the attributes of God, it's only obvious that "us" and "our" are not references to God Himself but to His attributes. Therefore, the Creator of the Universe is He Who has dominion over the whole of the Universe through man by way of His attributes.

Conclusion:

It's more than obvious that Israel could not uphold the banner of absolute Monotheism in God, and start the Scriptures with statements of plurality in God. The whole issue therefore, was personification of attributes.

Click to expand...

[/QUOTE]

It's obvious you don't understand the difference between a "man created in the image of God" and the formed "flesh of man".

eldios said:

There's no plan of salvation based on our obedience to God's Law. All men who are created in the image of God will remain in God as their flesh perishes. The flesh of man is only a formed illusion in the mind of a created man which dies off during this temporary generation. This means the flesh of man is not man's true created existence in God.

Genesis 1
26: Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness; and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the birds of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creeps upon the earth."
27: So God created man in his own image, in the image of God he created him; male and female he created them.

Genesis 2
7: then the LORD God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.

Man was created as the "breath of life" before any visible flesh ( male and female ) could be observed by man.

Click to expand...

Not another computer program believer!

djhwoodwerks said:

Not another computer program believer!

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The beast that you read about in Daniel and Revelation was necessary to reveal how we're created. It's obvious you weren't chosen to believe the knowledge of Christ that reveals what the Tree of Life is.