Sorry I forgot who it was!

mattp said:

I apologize, but I forgot who asked me this question(doesn't Rev.13:8 show that Jesus was predestined to be a sacrifice for mankind before the world was even formed show that Jehovah knew that man would sin?)
Before I explain the scripture please think of this. If you knew your child was going to do something that would ultimately result in their death would you not stop them?
Any way, first look at the Greek word used for founding(katabole) it literally means
"a throwing down" and can refer to the ‘conceiving of seed,’ as at Hebrews 11:11.
While there was "the founding" of a world of mankind when God created the first human pair, as is shown at Hebrews 4:3, 4, that pair thereafter forfeited their position as children of God. (Ge 3:22-24; Ro 5:12) Yet, by God’s undeserved kindness, they were allowed to conceive seed and produce offspring, one of whom is specifically shown in the Bible to have gained God’s favor and placed himself in position for redemption and salvation, namely, Abel. (Ge 4:1, 2; Heb 11:4) It is noteworthy that at Luke 11:49-51 Jesus refers to "the blood of all the prophets spilled from the founding of the world" and parallels this with the words "from the blood of Abel down to the blood of Zechariah." Thus, Abel is connected by Jesus with "the founding of the world."

Also, how many times is the word "world" used to mean redeemable mankind and not the literal world. John 17:15,16. Heb 11:7. 2 Pet 2:5. 1 John 2:15 ........

So we can see that Jesus was called to be a sacrifice after the first sin of A and E but before the "throwing down of their seed". Hope that helps!

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michel said:

The verse seems to have me ramifications than at first sight, this actually delves into the ideas of predestination (and yet the ability to have free will);
From http://www.angelic.org/originalsite/predestination.html


Simply put, God already knew before time began that He would have to sacrifice Jesus, who was the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world (Rev. 13:8). In other words, God had already set aside His Lamb, because He knew you before you were born, and knew the pain, hardships and sin you would suffer and commit, and He wanted you dearly and desired to show you his love and mercy and spare you from judgement. He knew, as a result of their free will who would be saved and who would reject Him.

One of the doctrines that has divided Christians is the subject of Presdestination. At a very basic level, the doctrine states - through scripture - that some of us were bound for salvation and were known to be going to Heaven - all determined before the world began.
The main problem that people have are mainly: doesn't this override free will? And if it does, then therefore this doctrine is wrong. In short, there are both correct and incorrect elements on either side of the arguement. And because nobody has tried to reconcile the differences, there are certain denominations that remain apart on this issue. We will attempt to redefine Predestination and arrive at a middle groud without watering down the Gospel and wavering from the Truth!

The bottom line is that God knows who, as a result of their free will would accept or reject Him. He knows the answer ahead of time already, since God is not limited by the "time-space continuum" like we are And those of us whom He had already known would accept Him, He "predestinated" us to be more like Christ, and to give us a hope and a calling. And a destiny.

Clearly, God gives Mankind free will and does not override it. Yet, we see here in the scriptures that there are people that God foreknew before the beginning of the world. How can that be?

Let's put it into persepctive. The key word of Predestination is the word destiny. Consider this key point: if you are not a Christian, you have a choice between accepting salvation through faith in Jesus Christ, or you can refuse Christ as your personal Savior.
If a man rejects Jesus Christ, then on the day of judgement, none of his sins had been forgiven by God (and thus covered by Christ's blood to make him righteous) so that person goes to everelasting punishment in Hell. Does God have an intimimate relationship with such a person? Does He have a destiny plotted out for such a person? The answer to both questions is no.
Now if you accept Christ of your own free will, it turns out that God has a relationship in store for you, one of mercy that triums over judgement. He has a calling prepared for you, a destiny, and all kinds of spiritual gifts and talents you dreamed not. Ultimately, when you move on from this life, you will be in His arms. The key word that puts all this perspective is the word "know". For those whom God foreknew, those were the people God predestinated to be made more like Christ, according to Romans 8:29. The word "know" means having an intimate relationship, such as you have if Christ is your Lord and Savior! But a non-Christian who rejects Christ has no such relationship.

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