The side effects of sin

"With many articles talking about homosexuals, i have come across another question. I would first like to say that i mean no offense, but i am just looking for thoughts on the subject. Anyway, every sin has a harmful side effect. Murder, lying, stealing, ect... Most of these have side effects that can be seen almost immediately. However, with homosexuality what would be the supposed harmful side effect. I realize that in this instance i am naming homosexuality as a sin. I understand that some churches do not view homosexuality as a sin, just the act. If this could also be explained to me that would be great. My thought process is that a homosexual is someone who does engage in the act. Hence confusion.

Thank you all for your input.

To answer your question regarding homosexuality and some churches' view of it, I think that one can be a homosexual (one who is physically attracted to members of the same sex), yet does not engage in homosexual sex. In this way, one can be a homosexual and not be in danger of sin as some define sin. It's like a male being attracted to women but doesn't have sex with any of them because he isn't married to any of them. Does that make sense?

But linus, sexual repression of something that is actually natural (many animals are noted to be gay) is purely negative, no one is hurt from homosexuality, no ruined lives, G-d is above punishing us for our genes, (this is where my reconstructionism kicks in).

Sin

Proverbs 10:19 In the multitude of words there wanteth not sin: but he that refraineth his lips is wise.

Pro 14:34 Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people.

Proverbs 21:4 An high look, and a proud heart, and the plowing of the wicked, is sin.

Proverbs 24:9 The thought of foolishness is sin: and the scorner is an abomination to men.

1 John 3:4 Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.

Romans 14:23 And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

James 1:15 Then when lust hath conceived, it bringeth forth sin: and sin, when it is finished, bringeth forth death.

James 4:17 Therefore to him that knoweth to do good, and doeth it not, to him it is sin.

1 Corinthians 15:56 The sting of death is sin; and the strength of sin is the law.

2 Corinthians 5:21 For he hath made him to be sin for us, who knew no sin; that we might be made the righteousness of God in him.

1 John 5:17 All unrighteousness is sin: and there is a sin not unto death.

While the scriptures are inspired by God, they were not written by him. Men wrote these words and often times put words in God's mouth.

Jesus has reduced all of the "laws" down to just two. Love God & Love Everyone Else. No longer are we hamstrung by MEN putting their ideas down as God's ideas.

Now, I would love for someone to show me how homosexuality violates the rule of love. I can see how casual sex, lying, prostitution, hate, intolerance etc. etc, violate these principles, but I just don't see that with homosexuality.

Arrow said:

every sin has a harmful side effect. Murder, lying, stealing, ect... Most of these have side effects that can be seen almost immediately. However, with homosexuality what would be the supposed harmful side effect.

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I feel very much the same way. I haven't found any "side effects" that come directly from homosexuality. There are a some that come from promiscuity (heterosexual or homosexual), and some from other sexual behaviors, but I haven't seen any that make me think there is something inherent about homosexuality that's wrong.

This has led me to the conclusion that rules against homosexuality are excess cultural baggage, not part of the important rules of christianity. (Note: this is my opinion, not one that's necessarily shared by other christians.) A number of these rules were adopted because they were already the norm for that culture. Others were adopted to set the religion apart from other nearby religions. (Likely the cause of the old testament prohibition against tattoos.)

Given the general church attitude toward homosexuality, homosexuals are often pushed away from the church. Many end up engaging in behaviors that do have serious consequences. That's why I'm a big fan of churches accepting homosexuality (as a practice, not just an attraction). That allows people to stay grounded, so they are less likely to engage in the actions that they should avoid.

AlanGurvey said:

sexual repression of something that is actually natural (many animals are noted to be gay) is purely negative

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I hope you're not suggesting that we should live like animals. Certain "natural" sexual tendancies or desires need to be supressed. God has given strict bounds for sexual relations for a reason: to protect and preserve its intended use of a) procreation within marriage, and b) strengthening of bonds between husband and wife.

AlanGurvey said:

G-d is above punishing us for our genes

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True, God won't punish us for our genes (there is no proven link between genetics and homosexuality), but he won't reward us for disobeying his commandments.

NetDoc said:

While the scriptures are inspired by God, they were not written by him. Men wrote these words and often times put words in God's mouth.

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The prophets often erroneously put words in God's mouth? How do you go about defending that position?

NetDoc said:

Jesus has reduced all of the "laws" down to just two. Love God & Love Everyone Else. No longer are we hamstrung by MEN putting their ideas down as God's ideas.

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He "reduced" all laws down to just two? I think you're mistaken, those happen to be the two greatest commandments, but they are by no means the only two commandments.

NetDoc said:

Now, I would love for someone to show me how homosexuality violates the rule of love. I can see how casual sex, lying, prostitution, hate, intolerance etc. etc, violate these principles, but I just don't see that with homosexuality.

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How about adultery? That's two adults having consentual sex. They may even love each other. Does that make it right?

Polaris said:

The prophets often erroneously put words in God's mouth? How do you go about defending that position?

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No defense needed. It's pretty obvious to me. Do you have any scriptures that say that the Bible is perfect?

Polaris said:

He "reduced" all laws down to just two? I think you're mistaken, those happen to be the two greatest commandments, but they are by no means the only two commandments.

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First, the old law is GONESVILLE:

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. NIV

Second, he has given us a NEW command

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV

Polaris said:

How about adultery? That's two adults having consentual sex. They may even love each other. Does that make it right?

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Ah, now you are confusing sex with love. When you CHEAT on your spouse, you are not showing much love, now are you?

NetDoc said:

No defense needed. It's pretty obvious to me. Do you have any scriptures that say that the Bible is perfect?

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I'm not claiming that the Bible is perfect, but to claim that the prophets "often" erroneously put words in God's mouth is a stretch. How do you have any confidence in the Bible at all? How do you know what passages are in error and which aren't?

NetDoc said:

First, the old law is GONESVILLE:

Ephesians 2:14 For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hostility, 15 by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace, 16 and in this one body to reconcile both of them to God through the cross, by which he put to death their hostility. 17 He came and preached peace to you who were far away and peace to those who were near. 18 For through him we both have access to the Father by one Spirit. NIV

Second, he has given us a NEW command

John 13:34 "A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. 35 By this all men will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another." NIV

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I agree that the Law of Moses was fullfilled and came to an end. But many of the moral principles contained in the Law of Moses are eternal in nature: murder is always wrong, adultery is always wrong, fornication is always wrong, homosexual acts are always wrong. Those things didn't change with the coming of Christ.

Paul seemed to teach loud and clear that homosexuality is wrong:

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:27).

Polaris said:

I'm not claiming that the Bible is perfect, but to claim that the prophets "often" erroneously put words in God's mouth is a stretch. How do you have any confidence in the Bible at all? How do you know what passages are in error and which aren't?

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I don't the Spirit does. I merely open myself to the Spirit.

Polaris said:

I agree that the Law of Moses was fullfilled and came to an end. But many of the moral principles contained in the Law of Moses are eternal in nature: murder is always wrong, adultery is always wrong, fornication is always wrong, homosexual acts are always wrong. Those things didn't change with the coming of Christ.

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One law: the law of Love. Yes, the apostles got that wrong from time to time as well. Why else did Paul rebuke Peter?

Polaris said:

Paul seemed to teach loud and clear that homosexuality is wrong:

"And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet." (Romans 1:27).

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This is where I disagree with Paul. He also said that women should be silent. These are cultural taboos that are set as doctrinal. We have but one law, the law of love. Anything taught that does not fit that one law is in error. We should NEVER hate someone due to their sexual orientation.

NetDoc said:

I don't the Spirit does. I merely open myself to the Spirit.

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So the scriptures weren't written by men who were guided by the spirit? Are you more inspired than Paul was? How do you reconcile this statement?

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God" (2 Tim. 3:16). Was Paul "putting words in God's mouth" there too? That would be quite convenient for you.

NetDoc said:

We should NEVER hate someone due to their sexual orientation.

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I agree. We should never hate someone due to their sexual orientation. The scriptures don't say we should hate them, they simply say that their actions are wrong. They are in violation of both OT and NT commandments.

God did not write the scriptures: men did. Guided and inspired are two different things.

Jesus reduced the laws to just two (or one, even). Love God & Love everyone else. I'll stick to those.

Arrow said:

"With many articles talking about homosexuals, i have come across another question. I would first like to say that i mean no offense, but i am just looking for thoughts on the subject. Anyway, every sin has a harmful side effect. Murder, lying, stealing, ect... Most of these have side effects that can be seen almost immediately. However, with homosexuality what would be the supposed harmful side effect. I realize that in this instance i am naming homosexuality as a sin. I understand that some churches do not view homosexuality as a sin, just the act. If this could also be explained to me that would be great. My thought process is that a homosexual is someone who does engage in the act. Hence confusion.

Thank you all for your input.

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1. I've been to a four square church... interesting denomination.

2. According to the bible, homosexuality is a sin. The harmful side-effect would be, according to Christian belief, the corruption of the family, and some extremists say that AIDS and domestic abuse are natural results of homosexuality.

Personally, I think that homosexuality is a natural part of the human condition and nothing to worry about.

NetDoc said:

God did not write the scriptures: men did. Guided and inspired are two different things.

Jesus reduced the laws to just two (or one, even). Love God & Love everyone else. I'll stick to those.

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:clap ....agreed...

Linus said:

To answer your question regarding homosexuality and some churches' view of it, I think that one can be a homosexual (one who is physically attracted to members of the same sex), yet does not engage in homosexual sex. In this way, one can be a homosexual and not be in danger of sin as some define sin. It's like a male being attracted to women but doesn't have sex with any of them because he isn't married to any of them. Does that make sense?

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That's still a sin according to the Sermon on the Mount: (http://www.biblepath.com/beatitudes.html)

27 "You have heard that it was said to those of old, "You shall not commit adultery.'
28But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

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My perspective on this is that love is the most important thing; I believe God feels that way too. I don't believe God would condemn homosexuality. I've known several homosexuals and they are neither abnormal nor bad people. I know a couple that is very committed and quite obviously in love. That being said, I don't follow any Scripture which condemns homosexuality.

Inspire - to affect, guide, or arouse by divine influence.

What am I missing here... what exactly is the difference between "guided" by God and "inspired" by God?

Quote: NetDoc "I don't the Spirit does. I merely open myself to the Spirit."

Please remember to test the things you believe that the Spirit is telling you. The Bible says to test the spirits: 1John 4:1 "Beloved,27 believe4100 not3361 every3956 spirit,4151 but235 try1381 the3588 spirits4151 whether1487 they are2076 of1537 God:2316 because3754 many4183 false prophets5578 are gone out1831 into1519 the3588 world.2889"
And how do you suppose you can test these spirits to make sure that it is from God?

quote: NetDoc "Jesus reduced the laws to just two (or one, even). Love God & Love everyone else. I'll stick to those."
You say that love is essentially the only commandment that stands. I understand where you are coming from on that thought. However, if you truly love God, would not you follow and obey Him perfectly? Meaning that you would end up obeying all of the laws anyway.

NetDoc said:

While the scriptures are inspired by God, they were not written by him. Men wrote these words and often times put words in God's mouth.

Jesus has reduced all of the "laws" down to just two. Love God & Love Everyone Else. No longer are we hamstrung by MEN putting their ideas down as God's ideas.

Now, I would love for someone to show me how homosexuality violates the rule of love. I can see how casual sex, lying, prostitution, hate, intolerance etc. etc, violate these principles, but I just don't see that with homosexuality.

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If God inspired the Word, how is it then tainted by man?