Some Mormon missionaries tried to talk to me.

The Kilted Heathen · Jun 1, 2017

syncretic said:
Obviously odin isnt lucifer or satan. Stop misquoting

It's certainly hard to misquote - or quote at all - when you delete your posts. Yet from what can be seen still, you were comparing Odin to the Luciferian "idea" of Satan and Lucifer. Heathens worship Odin, not an idea of Odin - that doesn't even match the Allfather - that can be called a number of other names and remain the same.

So my post - and what you call "misquoting" is still absolutely applicable.

Thanda said:
And why don't they?

In Heathenry, our Kindreds are built off trust and community, not how many pews we fill. It is absolutely counter-productive to that foundation to go door-to-door, trying to bring in as many strangers as we can. We would know nothing about them, or whether they belong in our community or not.

The Gods can speak well enough for themselves, and they don't need us to pester people. Whether one believes in them or not, they will remain and do what they do for us, and life will go on.

Desert Snake · Jun 1, 2017

The Ragin Pagan said:
It's certainly hard to misquote - or quote at all - when you delete your posts. Yet from what can be seen still, you were comparing Odin to the Luciferian "idea" of Satan and Lucifer. Heathens worship Odin, not an idea of Odin - that doesn't even match the Allfather - that can be called a number of other names and remain the same.

So my post - and what you call "misquoting" is still absolutely applicable.

No it isnt, Luciferians can be theistic or non theistic; the inference has nothing to do with the theistic nature of S.F.'s religion.

Desert Snake · Jun 1, 2017

syncretic said:
Yes, this is the same as non-theistic Satanism, they just took the deity idea out of their religious writings. They use 'satan' to represent the idea. Luciferianism is the same. Some is theistic, some isn't. You could have written Lucifer there, or Satan, and written the same statement.

^

The Ragin Pagan said:
It's certainly hard to misquote - or quote at all - when you delete your posts.

Fiction, there is the commentary.

The Kilted Heathen · Jun 1, 2017

syncretic said:
No it isnt, Luciferians can be theistic or non theistic; the inference has nothing to do with the theistic nature of S.F.'s religion.

And in either case, they're not worship Odin. They're worshiping their idea named Odin. So what we - Frank and I - are talking about here has no relation to Luciferian ideas and beliefs, so bringing them up like it's the same thing is inaccurate.

syncretic said:
Fiction, there is the commentary.

I mean the comment quoted in this post. The one where you try to compare one of our Gods to yours. Go on, try to go to that post - using the arrow by your name in the quote. Can't be done, because you deleted the post.

Desert Snake · Jun 1, 2017

The Ragin Pagan said:
And in either case, they're not worship Odin. They're worshiping their idea named Odin. So what we - Frank and I - are talking about here has no relation to Luciferian ideas and beliefs, so bringing them up like it's the same thing is inaccurate.

I mean the comment quoted in this post. The one where you try to compare one of our Gods to yours. Go on, try to go to that post - using the arrow by your name in the quote. Can't be done, because you deleted the post.

I'm not a Luciferian.

loverofhumanity · Jun 1, 2017

David1967 said:
Another possibility is that once they knew you were a devout follower of your faith, that out of respect they just decided not to bother you. I say that from experience. I have Mormon friends in my hometown who knowing that I attend a different denomination than them have never been pushy in the least.

Yes that's a definite possibility also.

Grumpuss · Jun 2, 2017

The Ragin Pagan said:
Ah, I see what you meant.

No... Growing irritated at endless solicitation - "haughty" is funny, as that's the attitude that the missionaries often have - is not xenophobia. If it is, then intruding on another's beliefs in their own home is just as much so.

I'm not sure who you think you're kidding. Consumers beam messages into your house regularly, inviting you to purchase life insurance, Nutella or a new Chevy Malibu. People come to your door also, soliciting Girl Scout cookies, lawn services or that you should vote for them in the next council election. But for some reason, you've decided that religious missionaries have done harm to you, and are acceptable as targets for derision and shame.

Perhaps ask yourself why you maintain such a double standard, and if you consider it hypocrisy.

Really? That's a vile sin? Not murder or rape, but arrogance. Gotcha. Hypocritical, as well, as by coming to our door and telling us what to believe, your "vile sin" is exactly what Christians are doing.

All three are vile sins. I never said a word about murder or rape not being vile sins, so your strawman is unnecessary.

Presuming to know God's will is what is also a sin. Blasphemy also, though I recognize that non-religious folk might not care what others consider offensive (even as they themselves seek to offend).

Mormons are just kindly Christians. If you don't like the message they're trying to share with you, then politely say "no thank you" and close your door. I promise nothing bad is going to happen.

And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.” (Matthew 10:6-8)

The Kilted Heathen · Jun 2, 2017

Grumpuss said:
I'm not sure who you think you're kidding.

Well I'm certainly not claiming that getting fed up with another religion's intrusive tactics - polite though they may personally be - is xenophobia. You know, what is defined by everyone else as hatred and prejudice of an outside culture, ethnicity, or nation? I mean really, spare us the dramatics.

Consumers beam messages into your house regularly,

Not I. Adblocker and no cable. Check, consumerism.

People come to your door also, soliciting Girl Scout cookies, lawn services or that you should vote for them in the next council election.

Not in my apartment they don't. The Scouts camp out at grocery stores and Walmart, and voting campaigns are all done through the phone these days. Who are you kidding?

Yet even still, the Girl Scouts aren't directly insulting my culture and beliefs when they ask if I want a box of cookies. They haven't come to my house and took a theological [REDACTED] on my doormat. They don't come back day after day after week when I tell them no. So yeah, I'm going to get quite fed up and irate with the Kristians that just can't take a hint. Don't like it? Get off my lawn.

All three are vile sins.

I think you need to reality-check the word "vile".

Mormons are just kindly Christians.

Oh, but of course. Yet even they have managed to master insult with a smile. I've come to not care if they're ignorant of their insult or not; perhaps they should make harder efforts to educate themselves on the cultures and beliefs that they're stepping on when they go door-to-door.

Grumpuss · Jun 2, 2017

The Ragin Pagan said:
Well I'm certainly not claiming that getting fed up with another religion's intrusive tactics - polite though they may personally be - is xenophobia. You know, what is defined by everyone else as hatred and prejudice of an outside culture, ethnicity, or nation? I mean really, spare us the dramatics.

I'm not the one claiming to be deeply and personally insulted by some smiling kids, come to share God's love with you.

Not I. Adblocker and no cable. Check, consumerism.

Radio, newspaper, television, your polling station, etc. Unless you're living under a rock, these messages are everywhere. If you're on this site, odds are you've seen several ads in just the last 2 minutes.

Not in my apartment they don't. The Scouts camp out at grocery stores and Walmart, and voting campaigns are all done through the phone these days. Who are you kidding?

Little difference. You could easily shift gears a bit and suddenly claim to be offended that the Scouts are attacking you at your grocery store and Walmart.

Yet even still, the Girl Scouts aren't directly insulting my culture and beliefs when they ask if I want a box of cookies. They haven't come to my house and took a theological [REDACTED] on my doormat. They don't come back day after day after week when I tell them no. So yeah, I'm going to get quite fed up and irate with the Kristians that just can't take a hint. Don't like it? Get off my lawn.

Seems like there may be more deep-seated issues, if you take such offense, when no one is forcing anything upon you.

I think you need to reality-check the word "vile".

Respectfully, no.

Oh, but of course. Yet even they have managed to master insult with a smile. I've come to not care if they're ignorant of their insult or not; perhaps they should make harder efforts to educate themselves on the cultures and beliefs that they're stepping on when they go door-to-door.

As I said, you're not being held hostage. You can either be polite and let them deliver their message, or you can choose to ignore it. Getting all worked up about one group's advertising and ranting about it is a sign of obsession and/or bigotry.

Ephesians 4:31-32 "Let all bitterness and wrath and anger and clamor and slander be put away from you, along with all malice. Be kind to one another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, as God in Christ forgave you."

Sha'irullah · Jun 2, 2017

Geesh, could have taken the time to introduce them to heathenery instead of being rude to them.

Grandliseur · Jun 2, 2017

Saint Frankenstein said:
It was awkward. They never bothered with me before. Missionaries usually steer clear of me but there's usually a couple of Mormons riding the bus and walking around my area.

They noticed my Thor's Hammer pendant and asked what it was. I told them and one only thought of the damn comic book character, which made me a bit offended and is not the way to start a religious discussion with me. The other knew a bit more. Then they asked if I believe in "Norse mythology". I said yes and they tried to ask me what It's about, to me. I shut them down by telling them I wasn't interested in discussing religion. Then they tried to make small talk but I wasn't interested in that, either. Was pretty uncomfortable.

They also asked about my friend I was with,hat her name was and if she was interested in speaking with them, but she was smart enough to walk away from them in the first place and get on the phone with her mom. I soon joined her.

Strange. I am no fan of missionaries of any religion, whether it's the bigoted black Hebrew loons, Christians or Muslims. I have no plans or desire to return to any Abrahamic religion. I don't like it when they try to pretend they're interested in you as a person when they're truly not. It's so fake. Mormons are nice enough, but it's still sad, imo.

I am not a Mormon, btw.

Actually, when they talk to me, and if I have time, I like to talk to them. It is interesting to me to talk to people about such matters, and even just to make new acquaintances, hear where they come from, etc.

In your case, simply say that you do not want to talk about religious matters, and 'have a nice day! Goodbye!' It makes me wonder though, if you are not interested in religious matters - how you came to join the old Norse religion? You obviously have some interest. That means that you listened to the ones who spoke about this, were they fake too?!

It is not fake, as you indicate, they are interested in people and enjoy making new friends where possible. Yes, they are at work on this 'mission,' but at least they are not trying to sell you a used car. Everyone has to interact with people here and there. You might not have to, but someone in your business sure does have to. (unless you are retired, that is; but you sound too young for that)

9-10ths_Penguin · Jun 2, 2017

Grumpuss said:
I'm not sure who you think you're kidding. Consumers beam messages into your house regularly, inviting you to purchase life insurance, Nutella or a new Chevy Malibu. People come to your door also, soliciting Girl Scout cookies, lawn services or that you should vote for them in the next council election. But for some reason, you've decided that religious missionaries have done harm to you, and are acceptable as targets for derision and shame.

Perhaps ask yourself why you maintain such a double standard, and if you consider it hypocrisy.

I touched on the differences between evangelism and ethical sales earlier, but it's good to know that you acknowledge that evangelism is really just sales.

Grumpuss · Jun 2, 2017

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I touched on the differences between evangelism and ethical sales earlier, but it's good to know that you acknowledge that evangelism is really just sales.

Of course! Religion is a product, just like any other for $2 Big Macs or extra-absorbent toilet paper. The difference is, for many, it changes their lives and helps unlock their understanding of the Universe.

2 Peter 1:5 "For this very reason, make every effort to supplement your faith with virtue, and virtue with knowledge"

9-10ths_Penguin · Jun 2, 2017

Grumpuss said:
Of course! Religion is a product, just like any other for $2 Big Macs or extra-absorbent toilet paper.

I'd go with something that's sold through multi-level marketing as an analogy for religion.

The difference is, for many, it changes their lives and helps unlock their understanding of the Universe.

Also: religion is exempt from truth in advertising laws.

"Understanding" implies knowledge, which implies truth. Until such time as a religion demonstrates its truth, it would be more accurate to just say that it encourages people to believe things about the universe. Whether those beliefs are true remains to be seen (though they *are* unjustified until they're demonstrated).

Kelly of the Phoenix · Jun 2, 2017

Grumpuss said:
I'm not sure who you think you're kidding. Consumers beam messages into your house regularly, inviting you to purchase life insurance, Nutella or a new Chevy Malibu.

We can turn TV's off. It's called murder if you do that to people.

Grumpuss said:
People come to your door also, soliciting Girl Scout cookies, lawn services or that you should vote for them in the next council election.

I don't like those people either. I love the Girl Scouts but I don't eat cookies.

Grumpuss said:
I promise nothing bad is going to happen.

They can be worse than AOL was.

Grumpuss said:
And as you go, preach, saying, ‘The kingdom of heaven is at hand.’ “Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out demons. Freely you have received, freely give.” (Matthew 10:6-8)

Funny, just saw this in the news:

'Am I going to die?' Gay man testifies in church beating trial

Grumpuss said:
I'm not the one claiming to be deeply and personally insulted by some smiling kids, come to share God's love with you.

I have God's love. What I resent is a sales pitch, which is all this is.

Grumpuss · Jun 2, 2017

9-10ths_Penguin said:
I'd go with something that's sold through multi-level marketing as an analogy for religion.

What- you mean, like Avon or timeshares or Democratic Party candidates?

Also: religion is exempt from truth in advertising laws.

"Understanding" implies knowledge, which implies truth. Until such time as a religion demonstrates its truth, it would be more accurate to just say that it encourages people to believe things about the universe. Whether those beliefs are true remains to be seen (though they *are* unjustified until they're demonstrated).

Hey, whatever people think is the answer is "truth" enough. That's how science went from not caring to Global Cooling to Global Warming to Climate Change.

I don't subscribe to Mormons' particular brand of Christian ideology, but I don't begrudge them the right to proselytize anymore than the my own right to practice my own religion. We're not talking about a theocratic government forcing a singular faith down anyone's throat; we're talking about some pleasant Mormon kids ringing your doorbell and maybe offering you a free book.

Colossians 3:12 '"Therefore, as God’s chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience."

Grumpuss · Jun 2, 2017

Kelly of the Phoenix said:
We can turn TV's off. It's called murder if you do that to people.

Not answering your door is MURDER now? You must live in a really stringent gated community!

I don't like those people either. I love the Girl Scouts but I don't eat cookies.

Cookies, Book of Mormon... not much of a difference, though I think the Girl Scouts are more likely to hit you up for $6.

They can be worse than AOL was.

Please explain.

Funny, just saw this in the news:

'Am I going to die?' Gay man testifies in church beating trial

I don't usually disparage the mentally ill, so I won't here. That priest presumes to know God's will and seemed to be exacting a punishment. Kinda nasty, too.

I have God's love. What I resent is a sales pitch, which is all this is.

Resent? It's hardly the worst form of advertising most people are exposed to.

1 John 1:6 "If we claim to have fellowship with him and yet walk in the darkness, we lie and do not live out the truth."

9-10ths_Penguin · Jun 2, 2017

Grumpuss said:
I don't subscribe to Mormons' particular brand of Christian ideology, but I don't begrudge them the right to proselytize anymore than the my own right to practice my own religion. We're not talking about a theocratic government forcing a singular faith down anyone's throat; we're talking about some pleasant Mormon kids ringing your doorbell and maybe offering you a free book.

And I think that you may be misunderstanding me: I have a very low opinion of proselytizing, but I don't going around trying to ban things just because I dislike them. All I'm talking about is the right to respond as I see fit.

We're talking about people coming to my door inviting me to discuss their religion. Well, if they do that, I may very well discuss their religion... even if they don't like what I have to say about it.

Shadow Wolf · Jun 2, 2017

Grumpuss said:
Consumers beam messages into your house regularly, inviting you to purchase life insurance, Nutella or a new Chevy Malibu.

I don't listen to radio and have no TV services.

Grumpuss said:
If you're on this site, odds are you've seen several ads in just the last 2 minutes.

ABP FTW!!! I've not seen a single ad on this site.

Grumpuss said:
. People come to your door also, soliciting Girl Scout cookies, lawn services or that you should vote for them in the next council election.

Actually, here, they don't. But when the Girl Scouts ask me if I want a box of cookies, they aren't beginning the conversation with an "if then" approach that assumes I am a sinful lost soul who needs saved if I trigger the if command by them hearing I am not a Christian. Girl Scouts don't assume I'm wrong by saying "no thank you," missionaries often enough have a hard time accepting no.

Grumpuss said:
But for some reason, you've decided that religious missionaries have done harm to you, and are acceptable as targets for derision and shame.

When they come acting under the assumption they know more about something than you, they need knocked down a few pegs.

Grumpuss said:
Mormons are just kindly Christians. If you don't like the message they're trying to share with you, then politely say "no thank you" and close your door. I promise nothing bad is going to happen.

And what of the ones who struggle to just accept "no thank you?" Or what of the ones who think "no" means "no just for today....come back tomorrow/next week."
And what of the ones who up their game? You make it painfully obvious the evangelizing teens just don't know their Bible so you send them packing, and they send someone a bit older with a bit more knowledge of the Bible. And you trample over him, but yet they don't get the message but keep sending more. The JWs in the next county over probably see me as a lion of an atheist prowling around, and it reminds me of the Chick tract or whatever of the grumpy atheist billy goat with a warning that children should stay away and special tactics are needed to effectively witness to them.

Saint Frankenstein · Jun 2, 2017

Grandliseur said:
It makes me wonder though, if you are not interested in religious matters - how you came to join the old Norse religion? You obviously have some interest. That means that you listened to the ones who spoke about this, were they fake too

Just because I am interested in discussing religion doesn't mean I'm interested in proselytism. It's like how on this site, proselytism is banned but we love talking about religion. I find proselytism to be rude and arrogant, among other things. It uses deceptions and other psychological tricks.

No onw tried to convert me to Heathenry. I learned about it by reading about it and deciding that it matches my worldview and beliefs. I also felt a pull to the Gods I read about. It was an organic process.

Some Mormon missionaries tried to talk to me.

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