How Can Anyone Not Accept This Biblical Prophecy as Real?

Fair enough some of the things are really ambiguous to discern, and are not very clear....

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

Then this is so blatant that the Gospel of John is made up, as it repeatedly (x7+1) uses 'Ego I-mee' as if Yeshua spoke that way, trying to make him seem like he was claiming to be God.

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts, the whole world has blatantly been deceived as specified, and because people listen to those deceived by said made up texts, everyone is seeing it as a joke, when it can be physically seen in the world that it has happened.

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

wizanda said:

Fair enough some of the things are really ambiguous to discern, and are not very clear....

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

Then this is so blatant that the Gospel of John is made up, as it repeatedly (x7+1) uses 'Ego I-mee' as if Yeshua spoke that way, trying to make him seem like he was claiming to be God.

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts, the whole world has blatantly been deceived as specified, and because people listen to those deceived by said made up texts, everyone is seeing it as a joke, when it can be physically seen in the world that it has happened.

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

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Well for one, a number of us don't worship your God. Two, what you claim to be "simple" reeks of "conspiracy theory" to many, including myself.

I don't believe in a god, so the Bible is no more relevant than The Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. In fact the bible is much less relevant because the other books are much better reads.

I roll my eyes because the bible contains at least three types of prophecies, maybe more:

1. "Duh" prophecies: "These two very angry nations will fight each other and people will die. Meanwhile, in breaking news, water is wet."
2. "Hindsight" prophecies: I will write in the present day that someone a hundred years ago predicted the very thing I'm going through right now. I will have no original sources to back this up.
3. "Wish fulfillment" prophecies: I don't like that particular group so I predict they will all burn in hell because they cut me off on the highway and now I'm bitter towards their entire population.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

All Biblical Prophecy reached Fulfillment in 1844.

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Right, so your answer for not recognizing the blatantly obvious, is because some alternate teacher made up new stuff that has nothing to do with the ascribed prophecies; which has then overrided looking at what is happening in reality.

Since Baha'ullah quotes from the made up Gospel of John, it doesn't say much for his level of intelligence.

Only read the Gospels twice, and saw how faulty John was, when compared to the Synoptic gospels... It really is blatant.

Nietzsche said:

a number of us don't worship your God.

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God isn't the topic, it is more the facts in the world we can all see; thus like many opposed to something, they don't actually see what is going on.

Nietzsche said:

"conspiracy theory"

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A theory is something that exists as a concept outside the evidence.

This is just a conspiracy, that is documented, and has happened.... We can't pretend Christianity doesn't exist.

Altfish said:

I don't believe in a god, so the Bible is no more relevant than The Lord of the Rings or Harry Potter. In fact the bible is much less relevant because the other books are much better reads.

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Thus because you don't believe in something external to a history book, you've ignore the facts of reality presented, that have shaped and change our whole world....

Lord of the Rings and Harry Potter, haven't had that much affect on the real world, thus they're not the same.

The false "I Am" statements have created the church; thus you can pretend to yourself none of it is real; yet the evidence exists everywhere around us.

Kelly of the Phoenix said:

I roll my eyes because the bible contains at least three types of prophecies, maybe more:

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Plus the blatantly obvious textual prophecies, that everyone can see, and is the foundation of the church, that proves the whole world has been deceived as expected.

Think many people get so confused with all the more complex prophecies, and ideas; that many have missed the very simple, that anyone should be able to see.

wizanda said:

Fair enough some of the things are really ambiguous to discern, and are not very clear....

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

Then this is so blatant that the Gospel of John is made up, as it repeatedly (x7+1) uses 'Ego I-mee' as if Yeshua spoke that way, trying to make him seem like he was claiming to be God.

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts, the whole world has blatantly been deceived as specified, and because people listen to those deceived by said made up texts, everyone is seeing it as a joke, when it can be physically seen in the world that it has happened.

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

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I've seen more accurate and specific prophecy from Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex than I have seen from the bible to be frank. This doesn't make me think Hideo Kojima is divine or that we should take the writers of the Deus Ex series and call them prophets.

Lorgar-Aurelian said:

I've seen more accurate and specific prophecy from Metal Gear Solid and Deus Ex than I have seen from the bible to be frank.

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Not studied either of those, so can't relate...

So you don't think that the world being deceived by false "I Am" statements, and then the Gospel of John repeatedly using falsified "I Am" statements isn't blatant?

How much more simple should we get for it to be specific and accurate?

wizanda said:

Right, so your answer for not recognizing the blatantly obvious, is because some alternate teacher made up new stuff that has nothing to do with the ascribed prophecies; which has then overrided looking at what is happening in reality.

Since Baha'ullah quotes from the made up Gospel of John, it doesn't say much for his level of intelligence

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What one must not do is give accusations without proof. That is simple Justice, to which all are entitled to.

The Torah Prophecy is fulfilled with Baha'u'llah. He needed not to quote any, from any Holy Book, they were about Him.

Refgards Tony

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

The Torah Prophecy is fulfilled with Baha'u'llah.

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The Torah only has one prophecy of someone coming, and though a source for the faulty understanding; the "I Am" prophecy was only spoken by Yeshua, with the result being global deception...

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

He needed not to quote any, from any Holy Book, they were about Him.

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Since Baha'u'llah wasn't even aware of said deceptions, we could not say he was the fulfillment of it, since he didn't even know about it.

Tony Bristow-Stagg said:

What one must not do is give accusations without proof.

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Baha'u'llah on the Life of Jesus

You are right we should provide proof, think this article is written by someone else; will have to do a bit more research, and identify all the faulty statements made by Baha'u'llah.

wizanda said:

Fair enough some of the things are really ambiguous to discern, and are not very clear....

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

Then this is so blatant that the Gospel of John is made up, as it repeatedly (x7+1) uses 'Ego I-mee' as if Yeshua spoke that way, trying to make him seem like he was claiming to be God.

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts, the whole world has blatantly been deceived as specified, and because people listen to those deceived by said made up texts, everyone is seeing it as a joke, when it can be physically seen in the world that it has happened.

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

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I came across these criteria for a valid prophecy a while back. I think they're very reasonable:

Criteria for a true prophecy
For a statement to be Biblical foreknowledge, it must fit all of the five following criteria:

1. It must be accurate. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it is not accurate, because knowledge (and thus foreknowledge) excludes inaccurate statements. TLDR: It's true.
2. It must be in the Bible. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it is not in the Bible, because Biblical foreknowledge definitionally can only come from the Bible itself, rather than modern reinterpretations of the text. TLDR: It's in plain words in the Bible.
3. It must be precise and unambiguous. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if meaningless philosophical musings or multiple possible ideas could fulfill the foreknowledge, because ambiguity prevents one from knowing whether the foreknowledge was intentional rather than accidental. TLDR: Vague "predictions" don't count.
4. It must be improbable. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of a pure guess, because foreknowledge requires a person to actually know something true, while a correct guess doesn't mean that the guesser knows anything. This also excludes contemporary beliefs that happened be true but were believed to be true without solid evidence. TLDR: Lucky guesses don't count.
5. It must have been unknown. A statement cannot be Biblical foreknowledge if it reasonably could be the result of an educated guess based off contemporary knowledge, because foreknowledge requires a person to know a statement when it would have been impossible, outside of supernatural power, for that person to know it. TLDR: Ideas of the time don't count.

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http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Biblical_prophecies#Criteria_for_a_true_prophecy

Do you know of a Biblical prophecy that meets all of these criteria? I don't.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Do you know of a Biblical prophecy that meets all of these criteria? I don't.

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The one prophecy the OP topic is about, qualifies on all points.

1. The whole world has been deceived by those that came after, claiming Yeshua was saying "I Am". The OP was specifically referencing the made up Gospel of John, as that is the most blatant, that everyone should be aware of, especially academics and atheists; as it is ridiculous that we have a textual document, where it can easily be shown the phraseology is not the same character presented in the Synoptic Gospels. To predict that all the world will be deceived by this, is accurate as Christians believe jesus is god because of these false texts.
2. All self contained, and clearly happened.
3. The only bit that is ambiguous, is due to a typo in Matthew, where it says 'Ego I-mee Christos' (I Am Christ), and instead of them seeing that both Mark, and Luke didn't have the word 'Christos' after, they added it to both of them, rather than remove it from Matthew. Thus some people have then intermingled 'there will be many false Christs', and assumed that is the contextual meaning. If we examine the Greek of the Synoptic Gospels though, we can clearly see Yeshua applied "Ego I-mee" to God specifically.
4. It's probable that Yeshua knew the Pharisees were accusing him of saying 'he was the great I Am' (Luke 22:70), even though he didn't speak that way... So his prediction in someway is probable, that the Pharisee/Sanhedrin will make up false statements about him after. What isn't probable is that the whole world will be deceived by it, and not notice how blatantly obvious it is.
5. Considering the world actually follows a made up idea, that jesus is someone who was claiming, "I Am the way, the truth, and life"; shows how little people pay attention, when that is the direct wording Yeshua prophesied would be used to deceive everyone.

wizanda said:

The one prophecy the OP topic is about, qualifies on all points.

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I disagree. You haven't established any of them.

Let's start with #2: give the specific passage that you think is prophetic. Quote it verbatim. Once you do that, we'll have a starting point.

wizanda said:

The one prophecy the OP topic is about, qualifies on all points.

1. The whole world has been deceived by those that came after, claiming Yeshua was saying "I Am". The OP was specifically referencing the made up Gospel of John, as that is the most blatant, that everyone should be aware of, especially academics and atheists; as it is ridiculous that we have a textual document, where it can easily be shown the phraseology is not the same character presented in the Synoptic Gospels. To predict that all the world will be deceived by this, is accurate as Christians believe jesus is god because of these false texts.
2. All self contained, and clearly happened.
3. The only bit that is ambiguous, is due to a typo in Matthew, where it says 'Ego I-mee Christos' (I Am Christ), and instead of them seeing that both Mark, and Luke didn't have the word 'Christos' after, they added it to both of them, rather than remove it from Matthew. Thus some people have then intermingled 'there will be many false Christs', and assumed that is the contextual meaning. If we examine the Greek of the Synoptic Gospels though, we can clearly see Yeshua applied "Ego I-mee" to God specifically.
4. It's probable that Yeshua knew the Pharisees were accusing him of saying 'he was the great I Am' (Luke 22:70), even though he didn't speak that way... So his prediction in someway is probable, that the Pharisee/Sanhedrin will make up false statements about him after. What isn't probable is that the whole world will be deceived by it, and not notice how blatantly obvious it is.
5. Considering the world actually follows a made up idea, that jesus is someone who was claiming, "I Am the way, the truth, and life"; shows how little people pay attention, when that is the direct wording Yeshua prophesied would be used to deceive everyone.

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This leaves me speechless.
<everyone heaves a sigh of relief>

wizanda said:

Fair enough some of the things are really ambiguous to discern, and are not very clear....

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

Then this is so blatant that the Gospel of John is made up, as it repeatedly (x7+1) uses 'Ego I-mee' as if Yeshua spoke that way, trying to make him seem like he was claiming to be God.

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts, the whole world has blatantly been deceived as specified, and because people listen to those deceived by said made up texts, everyone is seeing it as a joke, when it can be physically seen in the world that it has happened.

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

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No.

wizanda said:

The one prophecy the OP topic is about, qualifies on all points.

1. The whole world has been deceived by those that came after, claiming Yeshua was saying "I Am". The OP was specifically referencing the made up Gospel of John, as that is the most blatant, that everyone should be aware of, especially academics and atheists; as it is ridiculous that we have a textual document, where it can easily be shown the phraseology is not the same character presented in the Synoptic Gospels. To predict that all the world will be deceived by this, is accurate as Christians believe jesus is god because of these false texts.
2. All self contained, and clearly happened.
3. The only bit that is ambiguous, is due to a typo in Matthew, where it says 'Ego I-mee Christos' (I Am Christ), and instead of them seeing that both Mark, and Luke didn't have the word 'Christos' after, they added it to both of them, rather than remove it from Matthew. Thus some people have then intermingled 'there will be many false Christs', and assumed that is the contextual meaning. If we examine the Greek of the Synoptic Gospels though, we can clearly see Yeshua applied "Ego I-mee" to God specifically.
4. It's probable that Yeshua knew the Pharisees were accusing him of saying 'he was the great I Am' (Luke 22:70), even though he didn't speak that way... So his prediction in someway is probable, that the Pharisee/Sanhedrin will make up false statements about him after. What isn't probable is that the whole world will be deceived by it, and not notice how blatantly obvious it is.
5. Considering the world actually follows a made up idea, that jesus is someone who was claiming, "I Am the way, the truth, and life"; shows how little people pay attention, when that is the direct wording Yeshua prophesied would be used to deceive everyone.

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Nope, this fails on *at least* 3,4, and 5. it is ambiguous. To the extent it is meaningful, it is trivial. And it was a general concept at the time.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Let's start with #2: give the specific passage that you think is prophetic.

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Lol that was all done in the OP... Then in the last reply systematically explained each point, in context of the precise statements.

9-10ths_Penguin said:

Once you do that, we'll have a starting point.

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Can repeat it all, yet don't see the point, catch up, and will then answer the questions, once you've understood the premise.

Revoltingest said:

This leaves me speechless.

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Because you understand it, and can see how the world has been deceived by the exact specifications or because you've gone on some weird tangent, in which case explain it.

Satans_Serrated_Edge said:

No.

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Which bit confuses you?

wizanda said:

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

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You're kidding! You mean someone prophesied that people would claim something that wasn't God was God?! Since that kind of claim happens SO SELDOM...

Seriously, they may as well have written as "prophecy" the statement: "And people will still think money is really important." Shocker! They were so right! Amazing! I hereby pronounce this text INFALLIBLE.

wizanda said:

Lol that was all done in the OP... Then in the last reply systematically explained each point, in context of the precise statements.

Can repeat it all, yet don't see the point, catch up, and will then answer the questions, once you've understood the premise.

Because you understand it, and can see how the world has been deceived by the exact specifications or because you've gone on some weird tangent, in which case explain it.

Which bit confuses you?

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None of it confuses me.

No to all of it. This doesn't warrant serious discussion. Ridiculous is a generous term.

Just no.

wizanda said:

Because you understand it, and can see how the world has been deceived by the exact specifications or because you've gone on some weird tangent, in which case explain it.

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The strained complexity of extracting a prediction come true from scripture is astounding.

Hey, my speech center is working again!

wizanda said:

Fair enough some of the things are really ambiguous to discern, and are not very clear....

Yet when all 3 Synoptic Gospels (Luke 21:8, Mark 13:5-6, Matthew 24:4-5) tell you the way the world will be deceived, is by those that come after Yeshua claiming to be him using "Ego I-mee" (I Am).

Then this is so blatant that the Gospel of John is made up, as it repeatedly (x7+1) uses 'Ego I-mee' as if Yeshua spoke that way, trying to make him seem like he was claiming to be God.

Many Christians perceive jesus is god because of the made up texts, the whole world has blatantly been deceived as specified, and because people listen to those deceived by said made up texts, everyone is seeing it as a joke, when it can be physically seen in the world that it has happened.

So why do people not question it outside of the religious confusions; how can people opposed to Abrahamic beliefs not take it a bit more seriously to point out the lack of discernment?

How come something so simple, and blatant can be missed by so many?

Click to expand...

If they are so freaking obvious why aren't Christian theologians, the world over, discussing them ad infinitum?