The Bible declares that Jesus is God

Jason0047 · May 29, 2017

MJFlores said:
Can you back that up with a verse?
View attachment 17773

God is spirit (John 4:24);
And Jesus referred to His body as just a temple (John 2:19-21).

...

Brickjectivity · May 29, 2017

Rick B said:
"After eight days His disciples were again inside, and Thomas was with them. Jesus came, the doors having been shut, and stood in their midst, 'Peace be with you'. Then He said to Thomas, 'Reach here with your finger, and see My hands; and reach here with your hand and put it into My side; and do not be unbelieving but believing'; Thomas answered and said to Him, 'My Lord and my God!' Jesus said to him, 'because you have seen Me, have you believed? Blessed are they who did not see, and yet believed.' John 20:26-29

There is an Apostle (Thomas) who confessed that Jesus is indeed both Lord and God. The other Apostles did not object. Jesus accepted, with no qualification, the title of deity.

I think you are overstating your claim. Notice that Jesus does not directly declare who he is in this passage. Why not? I think it must be for a reason.

You comment that Thomas says "My Lord and my God!" In the very same book "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, ‘''I have said you are 'gods'...''' ? " (John 10:38) John chapter 1 declares straightforwardly that we have power to become sons of God and then in chapter 10 Jesus quotes "You are gods..."

There is another objection to your claim. Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is perfected by his death. Its reasonable to ask how he could be the one God and be imperfect at the same time. God is perfect, so what does it mean when it says Jesus was perfected by death.

Rick B · May 29, 2017

MJFlores said:
WHAT THOMAS UTTERED in John 20:28 should not be regarded as a statement of faith nor be considered as a strong biblical foundation to assert the alleged divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ. John 20:28 reads:

“And Thomas answered and said to Him, ‘My Lord and my God!’” (John 20:28 NKJV)

Why it should not be regarded as a statement of faith nor be considered as a strong biblical foundation of the alleged divinity of the Lord Jesus Christ?

THOMAS WAS NOT PREACHING AT THAT MOMENT BUT WAS FROM A STATE OF UNBELIEF

This humorous and absurd explanation has been totally debunked for years. Anti-Trinitarians hope that people will consider this a valid argument because emotional reactions among unreflective minds can imagine (and very often do) making a OMG remark when confronted with the unexpected. However, as I have been trying to stress, exegeting the text refutes such an abysmal attempt to explain away the plain text here in John 20:28. The Greek reads "The lord of me and the God of me". Surely no rational person can deduce from that language anything other than historical understanding which recognizes the grammar and plain sense in this passage as the present Apostles and Christ Himself obviously do. The Bible declares, here, that Jesus is both Lord AND God.

Rick B · May 29, 2017

viole said:
So, by the law of identity, we can infer that Jesus and the Father, if they are both God, share the same amount of information.

Correct?

Ciao

- viole

I have already addressed this in my post regarding the Carmen Christi see Philippians 2

Rick B · May 29, 2017

Brickjectivity said:
I think you are overstating your claim. Notice that Jesus does not directly declare who he is in this passage. Why not? I think it must be for a reason.

You comment that Thomas says "My Lord and my God!" In the very same book "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, ‘''I have said you are 'gods'...''' ? " (John 10:38) John chapter 1 declares straightforwardly that we have power to become sons of God and then in chapter 10 Jesus quotes "You are gods..."

There is another objection to your claim. Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is perfected by his death. Its reasonable to ask how he could be the one God and be imperfect at the same time. God is perfect, so what does it mean when it says Jesus was perfected by death.

Also Angels are referred to as sons of God. However Jesus, alone, is the Monogenes Huois and Monogenes Theos.

Rick B · May 29, 2017

Brickjectivity said:
I think you are overstating your claim. Notice that Jesus does not directly declare who he is in this passage. Why not? I think it must be for a reason.

You comment that Thomas says "My Lord and my God!" In the very same book "Jesus answered them, 'Is it not written in your Law, ‘''I have said you are 'gods'...''' ? " (John 10:38) John chapter 1 declares straightforwardly that we have power to become sons of God and then in chapter 10 Jesus quotes "You are gods..."

There is another objection to your claim. Hebrews 5:9 says that Jesus is perfected by his death. Its reasonable to ask how he could be the one God and be imperfect at the same time. God is perfect, so what does it mean when it says Jesus was perfected by death.

This is explanation makes the best case considering Tota Scriptura: having been perfectly equipped with every qualification for the priestly office by the discipline already described.Expositor's Greek Testament

Rick B · May 29, 2017

viole said:
Another thing. Your avatar seems to show an engraved image of God. If jesus = God.

Be careful.

Ciao

- viole

Engraved? It is no more an "engraved" image than your avatar. I have no objection to good religious art. The warning you are offering? is in regard the the 2nd Commandment I suppose. One must be careful to not read Scripture in "sound bytes".

4Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.

From these 3 verses it appears that your are as guilty as I since your image "is in the earth beneath", that is if your reading of the text stops at the end of verse 4. But read on through verse 5 that the reason for God's Command is against the worship of such idols. Of which I, and I hope you, do not engage.

Repox · May 29, 2017

Duke_Leto said:
If Jesus were God, and the Bible completely inspired by God, then why would Jesus be consistently referred to with phrases like "son of God;" "image of God," "Firstborn of [God's] creation," etc? I'd think that Jesus's nature as God would be explicitly stated; instead the Bible described a "son of man." If the authors of the New Testament had believed that Jesus was God himself, surely they would have explicitly said so, or God could have provided some extra divine inspiration at the very least, so that later Christians wouldn't have to conoct contrived explanations from the authors' words to make them say what they didn't.

If you research the gospels, you will find authors were not eyewitnesses, they were men who did not live, or had not visited, the holy land, they were men caught up in a religious movement to promote a new religion. As Christianity advanced, NT authors became highly esteemed, or, if you will, they were considered to be saints. Why would God, who had been murdered by men, want to change the story? Humans make mistakes, some through willful acts, so why should God intervene? Most probably, if the true story of Jesus were written, humans would reject it. They want romantic and exciting stories.

Repox · May 29, 2017

As for the gospels, most people lie, some more than others.

Today, gospel authors would make good science fiction writers.

Oh, oh, I have sinned terribly. Bible verses sound so holy, so wise, and so Godly inspired.

We don't need to go to heaven, we have heavenly people right here on earth.

kjw47 · May 29, 2017

Rick B said:
This post is intended to address a subject which has been argued a number of times. I have read some and briefly engaged some of those who reject the deity of Christ because they say that the Bible does not state the words “Jesus is God”. I believe this argument is fallacious, violating the word-concept fallacy. Also it demonstrates a presupposed bias when so many Scriptures identify Christ as divine, attributing to Him many of the divine names given to God. I do not intend to deal with the many New Testament texts ascribing Old Testament references of Jehovah to Jesus Christ. Nor the many references equating Him as Lord in the N.T. with Kurios (Lord) in the Septuagint. I will only use the Apostle John in this post in whose writings reveal the Deity of Christ.

Revelation 19:13 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God.

This section in Revelation is dealing with the coming of Christ. The Apostle John assigns a descriptive name to Jesus “The Word of God” (Gr. ho logos ho theos). This identifying Christ as “Logos”, the “Word”, is also used by John in the Prologue to his Gospel: John 1:1-18

John 1:1-18 New American Standard Bible (NASB)

The Deity of Jesus Christ

1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. 2 He was in the beginning with God. 3 All things came into being through Him, and apart from Him nothing came into being that has come into being. 4 In Him was life, and the life was the Light of men. 5 The Light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

The Witness John

6 There came a man sent from God, whose name was John. 7 He came as a witness, to testify about the Light, so that all might believe through him. 8 He was not the Light, but he came to testify about the Light.

9 There was the true Light which, coming into the world, enlightens every man. 10 He was in the world, and the world was made through Him, and the world did not know Him. 11 He came to His own, and those who were His own did not receive Him. 12 But as many as received Him, to them He gave the right to become children of God, even to those who believe in His name, 13 who were born, not of blood nor of the will of the flesh nor of the will of man, but of God.

The Word Made Flesh

14 And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth. 15 John *testified about Him and cried out, saying, “This was He of whom I said, ‘He who comes after me has a higher rank than I, for He existed before me.’” 16 For of His fullness we have all received, and grace upon grace. 17 For the Law was given through Moses; grace and truth were realized through Jesus Christ. 18 No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him.

Note verse 1 “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God”. The verb “was” (Gr: en, imperfect of eimi). The continuous action in the past of the imperfect tense of the verb indicates to us that whenever the “beginning” was, the Word was already in existence. “and the Word was with God…the Logos has been in communion and communication with God for eternity as well. The verb is the same as the first clause, and the preposition pros (“with”) pictures for us face-to-face communication. The Greek reads, kai theos en ho logos. We have the same situation in 1.1c.The Greek reads, kai theos en ho logos. Notice that the term Logos has the article ho while the term theos does not. This tells us that the subject of the clause is the Logos. Hence, we could not translate the phrase “and God was the Word” for that would make the wrong term the subject of the clause. Hence, the term “God” is the predicate nominative, the nature of the Logos is the nature of God, just as the nature of God in 1 John 4:8 was that of love. Now, John does emphasize the term “God” by placing it first in the clause – this is not just a “divine nature” as in something like the angels have – rather, it is truly the nature of Deity that is in view here (hence my translation as “Deity”). Dr. Kenneth Wuest, long time professor of Greek at Moody Bible Institute rendered the phrase, “And the Word was as to His essence absolute Deity.”

What he wishes to emphasize here is the personal existence of the Logos in some sense of distinction from “God” (i.e., the Father). The Logos is not the Father nor vice-versa – there are two persons under discussion here.

John 1:1 tells us some extremely important things. First, we see that the Logos is eternal, uncreated. Secondly, we see that there are two Divine Persons in view in John’s mind – the Father and the Logos. Thirdly, there is eternal communication and relationship between the Father and the Logos. Finally, we see that the Logos shares the nature of God.

John goes on to gives to Jesus another descriptive name: “The Light”, the “True Light”, the “Light of the world”.

Verse 14: “And the Word became flesh, and dwelt among us, and we saw His glory, glory as of the only begotten from the Father, full of grace and truth.”

The Word did not eternally exist in the form of flesh; rather, at a particular point in time He became flesh. This is the incarnation.

Verse 18: “No one has seen God at any time; the only begotten God who is in the bosom of the Father, He has explained Him. NASB

He first asserts that no one has “seen God at any time.” Now, the Old Testament tells us that men have indeed seen God in the past – Isaiah saw God on His throne in Isaiah 6; Abraham walked with Yahweh in Genesis 18. So what does John mean? He defines for us that the one he is speaking of here is the Father – that is, no one has seen the Father at any time. OK, then who was it that was seen by Isaiah or by Abraham?

John tells us – the unique God. Here the phrase is monogenes theos. There is a textual variant here. Many manuscripts have monogenes huios (unique Son) – and the KJV follows this tradition. But the strongest reading is “unique God.” How are we to understand this?

The term “monogenes” is used only of Jesus in the Gospel of John. Jesus is here described as the “unique God” – John is not asserting a separate deity from the Father. Rather, this ‘unique God” is the one who is eternally in fellowship with the Father. Even when discussing the “separateness” of the Father and the Son as persons, John is quick to emphasize the unity of the divine Persons in their eternal fellowship together. Here John teaches, again, the eternal and central fact of the deity of the Lord Jesus Christ.

The unique God makes the Father known – He “explains’ Him. What we know of the Father we know because of the revelation of the Son. We know what the Father is like because we know what Jesus Is like. Here the Son’s function as the revelator of the Father is clearly set forth, and this is directly in line with the usage of the term Logos in the Prologue. Other New Testament writers use the same theme – for Paul Jesus is the “image of the invisible God” and for the writer of Hebrews Jesus is ‘the express image of His (the Father’s) person…” Both writers (or maybe just one writer if Paul indeed wrote Hebrews) are emphasizing the role of Jesus as the revealer of the Father. In the same way, this answers the above question regarding who it was, in John’s opinion, that was seen of Abraham and Isaiah. We have already had occasion to note that John will directly assert that Isaiah saw the glory of Jesus in the person of Yahweh (12:39ff), and could it be that this is the explanation for Jesus’ statement in John 8:56? Did Abraham “see the day of Jesus” when he walked with Him by the oaks of Mamre (Gen. 18:1)?

The conclusion is obvious throughout these few verses:

If Jesus is The Word. Rev.19:13

And if that same Word is God. Jn.1:1-18

Then Jesus is God.

Special thanks to James R White

There is 10 x more evidence that trinity translations are filled with errors to mislead. Errors put in by Catholicism centuries ago to fit false council teachings.
John 1:1 is error--If a capitol G belongs in the last line, then in simple trinity talk, the 2nd line reads--And God was with God= impossible--there is one God. and at Rev 3:12--simple English trinity talk= God has a God = impossible.
God always was and always will be. Jesus has a mortal mother.

Rick B · May 29, 2017

kjw47 said:
There is 10 x more evidence that trinity translations are filled with errors to mislead. Errors put in by Catholicism centuries ago to fit false council teachings.
John 1:1 is error--If a capitol G belongs in the last line, then in simple trinity talk, the 2nd line reads--And God was with God= impossible--there is one God. and at Rev 3:12--simple English trinity talk= God has a God = impossible.
God always was and always will be. Jesus has a mortal mother.

You forgot to include any reliable sources to give some credibility to your assertions.
Also you demonstrate a total lack of what the Bible actually teaches.

metis · May 29, 2017

kjw47 said:
There is 10 x more evidence that trinity translations are filled with errors to mislead. Errors put in by Catholicism centuries ago to fit false council teachings.

Could you provide such evidence that these teachings are false, and I ask this being a non-Catholic and a non-Christian? Generally speaking, religious beliefs are almost always unfalsifiable.

Rick B · May 29, 2017

Staying with the Apostle John in demonstrating that Jesus is God. I must, however, go to other Biblical texts that explicitly state that God alone is to be worshipped.

"Again, the devil took Him to a very high mountain and showed Him all the kingdoms of the world and their glory; and he said to Him, “All these things I will give You, if You fall down and worship me.” Then Jesus *said to him, “Go, Satan! For it is written, ‘You shall worship the Lord your God, and serve Him only.’” NASB Matt.4:8-10
The scripture Jesus is referring to is Deut.6:13 " You shall fear only the Lord your God; and you shall worship Him and swear by His name." NASB
The HCSB renders it "Fear Yahweh your God, worship Him, and take your oaths in His name."

Except for the subjects of INC who worship Jesus as only a man, most would agree with Jesus and the other Biblical records that worship is exclusive to the being of God alone.

Now to John.
"Then he said to me, “Write, ‘Blessed are those who are invited to the marriage supper of the Lamb.’” And he said to me, “These are true words of God.” Then I fell at his feet to worship him. But he said to me, “Do not do that; I am a fellow servant of yours and your brethren who hold the testimony of Jesus; worship God. For the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.” Rev.19:9-10

" I, John, am the one who heard and saw these things. And when I heard and saw, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who showed me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant of yours and of your brethren the prophets and of those who heed the words of this book. Worship God.” Rev.22:8-9

Yet Jesus accepts worship.
"Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him." John 9:35-38

"Then I looked, and I heard around the throne and the living creatures and the elders the voice of many angels, numbering myriads of myriads and thousands of thousands, saying with a loud voice, “Worthy is the Lamb who was slain, to receive power and wealth and wisdom and might and honor and glory and blessing!” And I heard every creature in heaven and on earth and under the earth and in the sea, and all that is in them, saying, “To him who sits on the throne and to the Lamb be blessing and honor and glory and might forever and ever!” And the four living creatures said, “Amen!” and the elders fell down and worshiped." Rev.22:1-3

If God alone is to be worshiped
And if Jesus receives and accepts worship without any Biblical admonishment but full approval
Then the Bible is declaring Jesus is God

MJFlores · May 29, 2017

Rick B said:
Yet Jesus accepts worship.
"Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him." John 9:35-38

Rick B said:
Except for the subjects of INC who worship Jesus as only a man, most would agree with Jesus and the other Biblical records that worship is exclusive to the being of God alone.

I don't know if I should still reply to this. Based on your statements, you quoted Jesus saying he was the Son of Man and we worship Jesus as a Man - isn't that weird - and you still don't know the Son of Man?

Rick B · May 29, 2017

MJFlores said:
View attachment 17776

I don't know if I should still reply to this. Based on your statements, you quoted Jesus saying he was the Son of Man and we worship Jesus as a Man - isn't that weird - and you still don't know the Son of Man?

Please try to let this sink in.

Jesus is the God-man. Taking on human nature at the incarnation. Explained, theologically as the hypostatic union, as has been repeatedly stated.

Still can't directly deal with the texts!

crowfeather · May 29, 2017

Christians nosedive into the dirt when they accept that The Bible is the literal word of God.
The Bible was written by many men. Men. God don't write.
Now, there may be Truth in what some men write, but never, ever, is it the literal word of God.

Understanding this simple concept, The Bible takes on a new dimension. It's not about the words. It's about what inspired the words.
You have to look beyond the words to divine the message.

Jesus was not God. He was a man. He became enlightened. Thus he came to realize his divinity.
This did not make him God, as an unenlightened human could understand it.
It made him God in the same way a drop of water is the ocean.

Men think. They forget their words - like their thoughts - are symbols, not the things they symbolize.
Any man may become God, in the same way a drop of water is the ocean, by learning to not-think.

Rick B · May 29, 2017

crowfeather said:
Christians nosedive into the dirt when they accept that The Bible is the literal word of God.
The Bible was written by many men. Men. God don't write.
Now, there may be Truth in what some men write, but never, ever, is it the literal word of God.

Understanding this simple concept, The Bible takes on a new dimension. It's not about the words. It's about what inspired the words.
You have to look beyond the words to divine the message.

Jesus was not God. He was a man. He became enlightened. Thus he came to realize his divinity.
This did not make him God, as an unenlightened human could understand it.
It made him God in the same way a drop of water is the ocean.

Men think. They forget their words - like their thoughts - are symbols, not the things they symbolize.
Any man may become God, in the same way a drop of water is the ocean, by learning to not-think.

Uhmmm...I just...I ahhh...hahahahaha

MJFlores · May 29, 2017

Rick B said:
Yet Jesus accepts worship.
"Jesus heard that they had put him out, and finding him, He said, “Do you believe in the Son of Man?” He answered, “Who is He, Lord, that I may believe in Him?” Jesus said to him, “You have both seen Him, and He is the one who is talking with you.” And he said, “Lord, I believe.” And he worshiped Him." John 9:35-38

Matthew 8:20
And Jesus said to him, “Foxes have holes and birds of the air havenests, but the Son of Man has nowhere to lay His head.”

Matthew 9:6
But that you may know that the Son of Man has power on earth to forgive sins”—then He said to the paralytic, “Arise, take up your bed, and go to your house.”

Matthew 10:23
When they persecute you in this city, flee to another. For assuredly, I say to you, you will not have gone through the cities of Israel before the Son of Man comes.

Matthew 11:19
The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, ‘Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!’ But wisdom is justified by her children.”

Matthew 12:8
For the Son of Man is Lord even of the Sabbath.”

Matthew 12:32
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man, it will be forgiven him; but whoever speaks against the Holy Spirit, it will not be forgiven him, either in this age or in the age to come.

Matthew 12:40
For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of the great fish, so will the Son of Man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.

Matthew 13:37
He answered and said to them: “He who sows the good seed is the Son of Man.

Matthew 13:41
The Son of Man will send out His angels, and they will gather out of His kingdom all things that offend, and those who practice lawlessness,

Matthew 16:13
When Jesus came into the region of Caesarea Philippi, He asked His disciples, saying, “Who do men say that I, the Son of Man, am?”

Matthew 16:27
For the Son of Man will come in the glory of His Father with His angels, and then He will reward each according to his works.

Matthew 16:28
“Assuredly, I say to you, there are some standing here who shall not taste death till they see the Son of Man coming in His kingdom.”

Matthew 17:9
Now as they came down from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying, “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of Man is risen from the dead.”

Matthew 17:12
But I say to you that Elijah has come already, and they did not know him but did to him whatever they wished. Likewise the Son of Man is also about to suffer at their hands.”

And many many more verses that Jesus said that he is the Son of Man and in fact your KJV mentions Son of Man:

in the Book of Matthew 33 times
in the Book of Mark 17 times
in the Book of Luke 30 times
in the Book of John 13 times

and you missed it?

You need to have your eyes checked.

And like what Jesus said:

Matthew 6:23
But if your eyes are unhealthy, your whole body will be full of darkness. If then the light within you is darkness, how great is that darkness!

MJFlores · May 29, 2017

Rick B said:
Jesus is the God-man.

Not to the Lord Jesus Christ said:

John 8:40-45 New International Version (NIV)

As it is, you are looking for a way to kill me, a man who has told you the truth that I heard from God. Abraham did not do such things. You are doing the works of your own father.”

“We are not illegitimate children,” they protested. “The only Father we have is God himself.”

Jesus said to them, “If God were your Father, you would love me, for I have come here from God. I have not come on my own; God sent me. Why is my language not clear to you? Because you are unable to hear what I say. You belong to your father, the devil, and you want to carry out your father’s desires. He was a murderer from the beginning, not holding to the truth, for there is no truth in him. When he lies, he speaks his native language, for he is a liar and the father of lies. Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

How can I sink in? When Jesus told the truth:

He said he is a man
He is not God, he was sent by God

You see, anybody's salvation rest on believing Jesus or not. Remember John 3:16-18 - the most popular verse used by "Born Again"

John 3:16-18 New International Version (NIV)

For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God’s one and only Son.

Jesus said: Yet because I tell the truth, you do not believe me!

Brickjectivity · May 29, 2017

Rick B said:
This is explanation makes the best case considering Tota Scriptura: having been perfectly equipped with every qualification for the priestly office by the discipline already described.Expositor's Greek Testament

They say in that reference for Heb 5:9 he learns obedience, and that when he obeys to the point of death he finally reaches perfection. They specifically call it the completion of his moral discipline and that through obedience he becomes the author of salvation. I am able to make out very few of the Greek terms, but I understand the gist of what they are saying as most of it is in English.

The Bible declares that Jesus is God

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