How are these Great Beings explained?

Unveiled Artist · May 29, 2017

loverofhumanity said:
Unity of belief will not likely happen until a after a very long, long time.

However, agreeing we are one human family as opposed to exclusive nationalism can have the whole of humanity working together for the benefit of all not just their race, religion, country or gender.

No one is excluded from this and it doesn't matter if one believes in God or not. By accepting that we are all different but human we can achieve unity.

How do you do this with passive belief of saying "god is the foundation of unity through the message of manifestations" without implementing that plan to succeed your goal?

Not just service to humanity but actually sharing your belief to bring humanity together. If that is what you want, it starts with you.

If it did not depend on religion, race, nationality, etc, then you would not have a religion. To me, my values and way of life is dependant on who I love, who and what I believe in, how I was raised, who my parents and family are, who my family in spirit are, and other things. These things make up who I am. I can't separate them from me; so we disagree there. A lot of people actually disagree with you there. I'm just hoping the disagreement won't cause the type of division you're striving not to have. The first step is how you see other religious figures as manif of your god. However, no one can change that just how you express it so as to not offend others.

Why have unity in your belief when we will always be diverse regardless of how we work together?

I feel unity could happen, it just wouldn't be based on the words of manifestations (aka, not based on god).

loverofhumanity · May 29, 2017

Carlita said:
How do you do this with passive belief of saying "god is the foundation of unity through the message of manifestations" without implementing that plan to succeed your goal?

Not just service to humanity but actually sharing your belief to bring humanity together. If that is what you want, it starts with you.

If it did not depend on religion, race, nationality, etc, then you would not have a religion. To me, my values and way of life is dependant on who I love, who and what I believe in, how I was raised, who my parents and family are, who my family in spirit are, and other things. These things make up who I am. I can't separate them from me; so we disagree there. A lot of people actually disagree with you there. I'm just hoping the disagreement won't cause the type of division you're striving not to have. The first step is how you see other religious figures as manif of your god. However, no one can change that just how you express it so as to not offend others.

Why have unity in your belief when we will always be diverse regardless of how we work together?

I feel unity could happen, it just wouldn't be based on the words of manifestations (aka, not based on god).

Of course unity can happen by us all becoming prejudice free and accepting each other's diversity. Why not?

The oneness and equality of all humankind which includes everyone is dependent on our common humanity not belief systems.

The oneness of humanity is our religion's core belief. So although I am not Hindu or black I accept the Hindu or colored person as an equal.

On this basis we can have mutual acceptance of us all as belonging to the wider human race although we may come from different backgrounds.

Aupmanyav · May 29, 2017

I get your quote now.

Carlita said:
The Buddha did say he has always existed through rebirth and now that he was enlightened, he can finally die. So it wouldn't make sense for him to come back to live in suffering again regardless if he came as Maitreya.

You see, Buddha does not exist after death. He said that after death even if Brahma or Indra search for him, they will not find him. Buddha did not believe in permanence of soul.

Aupmanyav · May 29, 2017

adrian009 said:
I see you are from New Dehli. Ever been to the Baha'i Lotus temple?

No. What would I visit it for? Of course, I have passed by it a few times.

loverofhumanity · May 29, 2017

Carlita said:
How do you do this with passive belief of saying "god is the foundation of unity through the message of manifestations" without implementing that plan to succeed your goal?

Not just service to humanity but actually sharing your belief to bring humanity together. If that is what you want, it starts with you.

If it did not depend on religion, race, nationality, etc, then you would not have a religion. To me, my values and way of life is dependant on who I love, who and what I believe in, how I was raised, who my parents and family are, who my family in spirit are, and other things. These things make up who I am. I can't separate them from me; so we disagree there. A lot of people actually disagree with you there. I'm just hoping the disagreement won't cause the type of division you're striving not to have. The first step is how you see other religious figures as manif of your god. However, no one can change that just how you express it so as to not offend others.

Why have unity in your belief when we will always be diverse regardless of how we work together?

I feel unity could happen, it just wouldn't be based on the words of manifestations (aka, not based on god).

The only point I disagree with you on is you say that you 'feel unity could happen'. I believe it is happening quietly all over the world now as we speak. Gradually people are awakening to their oneness and becoming more interested in peace and reconciliation.

Unveiled Artist · May 29, 2017

loverofhumanity said:
Of course unity can happen by us all becoming prejudice free and accepting each other's diversity. Why not?

The oneness and equality of all humankind which includes everyone is dependent on our common humanity not belief systems.

The oneness of humanity is our religion's core belief. So although I am not Hindu or black I accept the Hindu or colored person as an equal.

On this basis we can have mutual acceptance of us all as belonging to the wider human race although we may come from different backgrounds.

I agree. Just be mindful, again, of course, that everyone's belief should respect others. Therefore, I would not like a christian to tell me as my friend did that I will go to hell because her bible told her so. It would be nice if her bible said otherwise, but that's her belief. Likewise, I dislike how Bahai interprets The Buddha's teachings but as beliefs, I can't say much. As long as they are beliefs, I'll bite my tongue.

It's not your goals and beliefs about humanity. It's your religion and how it views other religions and their prophets, gods, and buddhas. If they both can align with one another, that would be great. But that's a huge contradiction.

I don't think you can talk that away. Quotes won't help. They just repeat my conclusion. Mutual respect is cool, just now you know how I feel about it (cough, again).

Unveiled Artist · May 29, 2017

Aupmanyav said:
I get your quote now.
You see, Buddha does not exist after death. He said that after death even if Brahma or Indra search for him, they will not find him. Buddha did not believe in permanence of soul.

I got it from the Lotus Sutra. A lot of people debate if the Lotus (Mahayana sutra, ten tai japanese sect) is an actual Buddhist doctrine. It's heavy in analogies and the discourse is different than the Pali suttas. Plus, of course, Buddhism spread and different lineages and their sects developed with their own views. Who can say they are wrong unless what was passed down is invalid if it "seems to" conflict with the originals.

I wish I had time to study it but there are so much, it would take me literally life times.

Unveiled Artist · May 29, 2017

loverofhumanity said:
The only point I disagree with you on is you say that you 'feel unity could happen'. I believe it is happening quietly all over the world now as we speak. Gradually people are awakening to their oneness and becoming more interested in peace and reconciliation.

Eh. I agree with The Buddha's teachings that life is about suffering (birth, age, sickness, and death) so to be at that "oneness" (though oneness isn't enlightenment) one would have to fully understand the nature of life not change it for suffering to not exist. Logically, it won't happen as long as people are born, age, live, and die. But that's a natural part of life. We can change ourselves, though. We can call it oneness if it makes us feel better but then The Buddha says that's an illusion-the spirit-ual part. It's all from the mind.

Anyway, I could go on with that. I understand what you're saying. I feel it's possible just the definition would be full understanding of rebirth and kamma not taking away birth, age, sickness, and death. Can't change the laws of nature but we can change how we interact in it.

Aupmanyav · May 29, 2017

I am an advaitist Hindu, a believer in TOTAL oneness, that does not even allow a God to exist. Oneness does not mean that we must agree to the 'divine'

mission of any Abrahamic son, messenger, manifestation or mahdi, and that without it there can be no oneness.

Dawnofhope · May 29, 2017

Aupmanyav said:
No. What would I visit it for? Of course, I have passed by it a few times.

Some people take an interest in the beliefs of others.

Aupmanyav said:
I am an advaitist Hindu, a believer in TOTAL oneness, that does not even allow a God to exist. Oneness does not mean that we must agree to the 'divine' mission of any Abrahamic son, messenger, manifestation or mahdi, and that without it there can be no oneness.

So what does oneness mean to you? Those in the west who are atheists don't bother having a religion at all. Why do you? Hope you don't mind me asking.

Aupmanyav · May 29, 2017

I do not mind your question and Hinduism and Buddhism are religions where atheism is a part of them. Oneness to me means a physical oneness. You are constituted by atoms and I am constituted by atoms. At the time of big bang, the energy that makes our atoms was concentrated in a small space (science opines, of the size of a tennis ball). That is from where the whole universe, kayanat, began. That is why we all are one, all humans, animals, vegetation, even earth, water and air. There is no thing other than that in the universe.

Dawnofhope · May 29, 2017

Aupmanyav said:
I do not mind your question and Hinduism and Buddhism are religions where atheism is a part of them. Oneness to me means a physical oneness. You are constituted by atoms and I am constituted by atoms. At the time of big bang, the energy that makes our atoms was concentrated in a small space (science opines, of the size of a tennis ball). That is from where the whole universe, kayanat, began. That is why we all are one, all humans, animals, vegetation, even earth, water and air. There is no thing other than that in the universe.

That makes perfect sense. Thanks for sharing. It looks like you have been around RF for a long time.

Vinayaka · May 29, 2017

loverofhumanity said:
My point was that Bahaullah was able to converse with all the Messengers without having to do so physically. This was just one example of it happening in a dream. It is not necessary to always travel to a physical location or a time and place to meet someone if one is a Manifestation of God.

And my point was this conversation made no sense, from the dharmic perspective. So therefore the 'conversation' and dream itself is suspect. Suppose you had a dream and the prime minister of Australia was playing cricket inside a house of Baha'i'? Would you consider that a prophetic dream?

Vinayaka · May 29, 2017

adrian009 said:
I think we need to go back to the purpose of religion.

Religion, writes Baha'u'llah is “the chief instrument for the establishment of order in the world, and of tranquillity amongst its peoples.”

The Purpose of Religion | What Bahá’ís Believe

Not what other religions believe. We Hindus of my sect define religion as the harmonious working together of the 3 worlds. (This one, the astral plane,. and the Sivaloka) For Saivas, the purpose of religion is to provide individuals a path to moksha,

Very different paradigms.

Vinayaka · May 29, 2017

loverofhumanity said:
The Manifestation of God has many mystical experiences we do not understand. Baha'u'llah was the reason all the Prophets of God have appeared.

But for Baha'u'llah none of the other Messengers, not Buddha nor Moses, Christ, the Vedic Scriptures, the Bible nor any other religion have been revealed. He says this Himself in His Own Words......

But for Him no Divine Messenger would have been invested with the Robe of Prophethood, nor would any of the sacred Scriptures have been revealed." Baha'u'llah

Again with the 'it's true because I said it's true.' That's no proof whatsoever nor valid in a debate with non-practitioners.

Vinayaka · May 29, 2017

Carlita said:
If you want that unity among diversity, you have to incorporate all. There is no We-Bahai. It's We-as a humanity.

Maybe he's looking into the future when we re all Baha'i'.

Kirran · May 29, 2017

Vinayaka said:
Maybe he's looking into the future when we re all Baha'i'.

Maybe tomorrow. Or by Friday, anyway.

Unveiled Artist · May 29, 2017

Vinayaka said:
Maybe he's looking into the future when we re all Baha'i'.

loverofhumanity · May 29, 2017

Carlita said:
I agree. Just be mindful, again, of course, that everyone's belief should respect others. Therefore, I would not like a christian to tell me as my friend did that I will go to hell because her bible told her so. It would be nice if her bible said otherwise, but that's her belief. Likewise, I dislike how Bahai interprets The Buddha's teachings but as beliefs, I can't say much. As long as they are beliefs, I'll bite my tongue.

It's not your goals and beliefs about humanity. It's your religion and how it views other religions and their prophets, gods, and buddhas. If they both can align with one another, that would be great. But that's a huge contradiction.

I don't think you can talk that away. Quotes won't help. They just repeat my conclusion. Mutual respect is cool, just now you know how I feel about it (cough, again).

Yes Carlita. You've pointed out a problem which does exists no matter what we say about oneness or unity. We will be judged on what we say about those beliefs that matter to other people. So we expect to be 'crucified' because what Baha'u'llah is saying is not appeasing or conciliatory but often damning and He rebukes, like Christ before Him, religious leaders and figures for some of what ray teach and claims the He is the One Who knows the real truth. This will not go down well with religious orthodoxy but I don't think it was ever meant to.

I think Baha'u'llah's Writings in many ways want to make a break with past Faiths and want to draw a line and revolutionalise the current concepts and ideas going around and that have been going around for thousands of years.

But through words

Vinayaka said:
Again with the 'it's true because I said it's true.' That's no proof whatsoever nor valid in a debate with non-practitioners.

What proof would you accept?

Vinayaka · May 29, 2017

loverofhumanity said:
What proof would you accept?

Nothing.

How are these Great Beings explained?

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