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Mandela Effect Moves South America East
- Thread starter George-ananda
- Start date
Show me. Open Map A in a paint program and draw where you think Panama and the Panama Canal are.
Since the Isthmus of Panama was deleted to create Map A, good luck.
What book?
In that sentence, "gaslight" was a verb, not an adjective:
Gaslighting - Wikipedia
Why on Earth would you think that this can't be readily explained? Someone has literally drawn a map for you to provide you with whatever detail you need.
Please explain how you justified the jump from "not ruled out as necessarily impossible" to "there is a strong possibility."
Here's the thing, @George-ananda .
One important factor in gauging the issue is the source. Like all humans do, I categorize information like your "Mandela Effect" by past experience. In another recent thread you put the odds of an internet pic of a human shaped cloud being evidence for guardian angels at 75%, with a 25% chance of it being a reflection or fraud or any other mundane explanation. I found that better evidence that you are a poor judge of evidence than evidence for the paranormal of any sort. Nothing personal, but I put you in the category "very unreliable source". The Mandela Effect now goes into the category "described only by an unreliable source", and I don't even find it interesting.
That is unlikely to ever change. Someone else, with a stronger history of reliability, could more easily convince me of the importance of some inexplicable event.
Regardless of how much I disagree with someone on other things, if they have a history of accuracy concerning basic reality I would judge them more likely to be on to something.
Tom
OK, we have had this discussion more than once. I do believe I am very rational and considering of all possibilities. Our difference is primarily that I have heard enough evidence about the universe (so-called paranormal stuff) that new cases of such is not that far of a stretch. You think I'm gullible. I think you are too resistant.
I do not see that level of detail in the map nor is that really important as I am talking about my memory of the location of South America. My memories 100% included Panama and the Panama canal too.
I think it can be explained by your simple explanation but at what point does one become suspicious/skeptical of the simple explanation? (See my Mickey Mouse ears example).
What evidence? So far, all I've seen from you on this is an unfalsifiable hypothesis. If you have any evidence at all, I haven't seen it.
And I don't think our difference in previously accepted ideas explains your credulity. Yes, we have different mental models of how things work (though not necessarily equally good at agreeing with reality), and because of that, we consider different things plausible or implausible... but merely being plausible isn't enough to rationally establish something like "probably" or "likely."
I mean, it would violate none of my assumptions about how things work to accept the claim that Dustin Hoffman had pancakes for breakfast this morning, but if someone made that claim to me, I'd still ask "how do you know? How are you sure he didn't have something else?"
Your approach seems to skip this step of filtering what you consider plausible through a critical thinking process before concluding that they're likely.
You also don't seem to be worried about reconciling all your weird beliefs into a coherent worldview. I mean, if you're going to accept that "alternative timelines" are responsible for the Mandela Effect, why doesn't this make you question your position on OBEs?
"Maybe the OBE is because an 'alternative timeline' and wasn't actually because the person's spirit was flying around the room."
Thanks for weighing in. I remember A from my childhood. I see you are 22 and I am 58. I am considering that may be an issue in this Mandela Effect.
I can see it clearly: the Isthmus of Panama is just gone. In the real world, there is a pronounced very narrow stretch of land where it makes sense to put a canal. In Map A, that narrow stretch of land is missing.
And it's important because it addresses the implications of your claim. They way they shifted South America west is by severely messing with Central America.
If you remember a long, thin Isthmus of Panama, then you remember Map B, not Map A.
Again: where? Show me. Draw on Map A where you remember the Panama Canal being. You say you were really into maps, so this should be easy for you.
The bar for suspicion is quite a bit higher than you've achieved so far, i.e. no evidence at all.
You'd have to go quite a bit farther back than that.
The Treaty of Tordesillas in 1494 established a line 370 leagues west of the Cape Verde Islands as dividing line between the claims of Spain & Portugal in the New World. I think your Map A puts that line east of South America altogether, yet there have been Portuguese speakers in Brazil for centuries.
I see it as just shorter and squattier in Map A without the wicked eastward hook.
I blew-up the map but the details became illegible. I do not know the origins of Map A. My only reason for showing it was to show my memory of the east/west alignment of North and South America.
By definition, the Mandela Effect can not present current evidence. It's about memory and our judgment of the memories of many.
Read the stories of many Here. The first one is about a guy who lived in Houston and Bogota. And he doesn't sound like a loony bird to me. For some reason beyond normal explanation, people may well be experiencing reality differently.
The Mandela Effect is about memory and memories from different versions of reality. It is not something people claim we can get our logical heads around. It is a certain remembrance of many that do not fit in a worldview of only one reality and linear time. It is in the mind-blowing domain. At what point do we become suspicious/skeptical of our simple model that will only allow faulty memory as a possible explanation? The last question is a judgment call with me leaning to something mysterious going on.
Yes - that "wicked eastward hook" is the Isthmus of Panama. In Map A, it's gone. This is what I've been saying.
I'm not asking for a precision survey. At the current scale, just draw a line on the map at the approximate location where you remember the Panama Canal being on Map A.
But the point I'm making - and that you continue not to address - is that shifting South America west has all sorts of other implications.
So would it be fair to say, then, that belief that the Mandela Effect (as you're using the term; not the psychological phenomenon) is real or even likely can never be justified?
Wait... so you think an unverified story on Reddit is compelling, trustworthy evidence?
Fun story: when one of my friends was in high school, he had an assignment for computer class where he had to build a web site. The content of the site didn't matter, so he had fun with it: he made it all about spontaneous human combustion. He gave a bunch of case studies and "research findings" - all made up - and signed the site with his real name, only with "Dr." on the front and "PhD" on the end. He submitted it, got a decent mark on the assignment, and then forgot about it.
Years later, when we were roommates in university, the phone rings. Someone has tracked down my friend through his parents and has some questions for "the doctor" as she does research for her thesis on spontaneous human combustion.
My friend explains that he made the whole thing up as a kid. After he got off the phone, he told us that her response was first silence, then dejectedly "...but that's the main source for my thesis."
I feel like you and she might know each other.
I am sure that one could draw Map A differently such that the key point is the longitudinal co-ordinates of South America are much westward as in Map A. I do not have a clear memory of how the isthmus of Panama looked in my childhood memory. But there definitely was a Panama and a Panama Canal in my memory.
I don't disagree with that actually but that doesn't mean my memories are wrong either. I am saying it may well be a mystery we don't understand and may never understand it in the mainstream paradigm of reality. It's out there yes, but so is existence in the first place. Glitches in the matrix??? could effect what people accurately remember experiencing.
It may never be understandable in our mainstream paradigm is what I'm saying. But that doesn't mean a threshold can not be passed in which I will say 'What the bleep do we know?. I think our mainstream version of a single common reality for all may not be the ultimate truth.
If this was the only person in existence with those memories of South America's location, I would be quite quick to dismiss him. These stories are straws on the camel's back. I consider quantity, quality and consistency when forming a judgment on paranormal matters.
So the reality of the Mandela Effect is a judgment and those that believe they have experienced it are more likely to believe it. Also as discussed with @columbus , my overall judgment is that reality is weirder than we can ever get our heads around. Yes, this makes me more open-minded to beyond the normal claims but that does not mean I throw common sense out the window either. It is a personal judgment were no one can prove their position to the other.
Even you would probably have a threshold experience to make you a believer in the Mandela Effect. You never responded to my Mickey Mouse example, by the way.
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You really don't think it's more likely that your memory just isn't picture-perfect?
At the moment I'm leaning more away from that simple explanation. In post #50 I provided a link to others with the same issue. The first guy lived in both Houston and Bogotá. Check it out.
I'm sorry, but that does nothing for me. It again fails to explain why there would be no other differences. I feel it is far, far, far too convenient that it would just so happen that the differences in these "memories" would be the ones most easy to adapt to, specifically "the maps and globes look different", when I have shown you repeatedly that a change of that magnitude would result in a world radically different from this one.
It's too clean and it's too convenient, and this is coming from someone fully on-board with Multiverse Theory.
I don't know if it read any of the testimonies but all I can say is 'it is what it is'. I don't claim to be able to make sense of it all so rejecting it is too easy also. Can we even begin to logically get our heads around multiverses or whatever.
I never noticed this effect being talked about until the very last few years, Some suspect scientific experimentation may have something to do with it but that goes way over my head. Skeptics will ridicule any explanation. I just believe it is likely that some things I and others correctly remember are not that way in our current reality.
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Yep.
A lot of maps are said to be politicised too. Continents are not portrayed accurately on printed maps to their actual size in comparism from one another. I think I made a thread about that in the past. Anyways I would think satellite mapping like Google earth would be a preference to printed media.
Not any explanation; only the irrational ones.
Certainly flat maps distort but not globes with lines of longitude. It is not just me. If you are interested read stories like in post #50 of a guy who lived in Houston and Bogota.