FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
But the inanimate nature can, or it isn't included.
Let's assume that God said no deity can do it, so let's do it and prove God wrong, it means
a lot for those who know what is between the lines.
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Producing life from non living matter
- Thread starter FearGod
- Start date
But the inanimate nature can, or it isn't included.
Let's assume that God said no deity can do it, so let's do it and prove God wrong, it means
a lot for those who know what is between the lines.
I'm not convinced there's a great deal of meaning in what you just said, in relation to the verse.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
And how the false Gods will gather to create a fly, do they actually exist?
Who did the creation?
The inanimate nature did it, God did it, Gods did it or no one did it.
Which one you think is correct?
Well yeah, that seems to be the point the verse is making.
I don't see creation as like some one-time event, that seems to me simplistic and reductive. Creation is God's creative energy manifesting the universe in every moment.
You have try and explain the origin of life some way and just mentioning some lifeless chemical is not convincing to me.
Okay
I don' think so, but I am not sure. If they don't, it is more evidence IMO, that God did it. If they do, it needs to be shown how these element came into being without God.
But like, if you put them together they make DNA, is that living matter? If not, if you put DNA together with transcriptional and translational protein machinery, you get life, basically.
I personally don't see how the likelihood of humans producing life from chemical components in any way would be supportive of atheism. Everything is God's will, as far as I'm concerned, so if we do it is by God's grace.
First you don't how hard I have looked. Second, what has you looking shown you so far? It certainly has shown that it can be done.
They are not. IMO most scientists have admitted it is impossible for life to have originated from lifeless element and have given up the search. What advances has science in this area in the past decade?
It is more ludicrous to keep beating a drum with a big hole in its cover.
It is more ludicrous to say it can be done, until they have done it. To say life can originate from lifeless elements not only illogical, it goes against real science---death can't be the origin of life.
Science, even the science of randomness, if there is such a thing, can't explain how nothing can be the origin of something.
We already have. It replicates, though very slowly, but it does replicate by using energy from surroundings. Made entirely artificially.
A recursive vesicle-based model protocell with a primitive model cell cycle : Nature Communications
. While we have previously described a giant vesicle (GV)-based model protocell in which amplification of DNA was linked to self-reproduction, the ability of a protocell to recursively self-proliferate for multiple generations has not been demonstrated. Here we show that newborn daughter GVs can be restored to the status of their parental GVs by pH-induced vesicular fusion of daughter GVs with conveyer GVs filled with depleted substrates. We describe a primitive model cell cycle comprising four discrete phases (ingestion, replication, maturity and division), each of which is selectively activated by a specific external stimulus. The production of recursive self-proliferating model protocells represents a step towards eventual production of model protocells that are able to mimic evolution.
(a) Membrane lipids consisting of vesicular membrane of self-reproductive GV. Cationic membrane lipid V, amphiphilic catalyst C and phospholipids (POPC and POPG) (right). The membrane lipid V and electrolyte molecule E are generated through the hydrolysis of the membrane lipid precursor V*. (b) The production of cationic membrane lipid V from its precursor V*. The cationic membrane V is produced together with the electrolyte E at an active site comprised of amplified DNA and amphiphilic catalyst C in the giant vesicular membrane. The proposed structure of the active site, comprised of amplified DNA, cationic membrane lipid V and amphiphilic catalyst C, for production of membrane lipids is shown in the bottom. (c) pH lowering induced adhesion and fusion between the target GV and the conveyer GV. The surface charge of the target GV changes to cationic due to the protonation of the POPC as well as the increase of the cationic membrane lipid V from its precursor, and the target GV adheres to the conveyer GV with a negative surface charge at pH=3. These two types of GVs fuse, and the transport of dNTP from the conveyer GV to the target GV proceeds.
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Your challenge has been met now what?
I anticipate that you will now change the goalposts and redefine life. Correct?
Here is the Britannica definition I am using
life, living matter and, as such, matter that shows certain attributes that include responsiveness, growth, metabolism, energy transformation, and reproduction
My challenge has not been met by your link. When they use have been proposed, demonstrated the potential, and the ability of a protocell to recursively self-proliferate for multiple generations has not been demonstrated. they are admitting they are speculating.
They also said their opinion has not been demonstrated.
You just asked what advances science has made. This is one of them. Production of self-replicating bio-machinery, construction of cells using components, etc, are others.
FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
No, we won't.
Actually I'll be an atheist if humans will create living creatures out of non living elements,
But I understand that it was your opinion which I don't agree with.
fact is fact, those chemically are lifeless yet bound on sugars with the correct environment and sufficient time they can create DNA.
By your argument god magic is not convincing to me.
Nothing would ever make me an atheist. But this has been interesting, thankyou.
Quantum physics can, and does, it happens all the time around and inside you. Particles create and then annihilate.
Sakeenah
Well-Known Member
As a muslim I agree with the above post.
@FearGod Allah is Al-Khaliq( The Creator) and this is one of His attributes, but some of God's attributes can be found in His Creation. For example God is al-Ghafur( the Most Forgiving), we humans are also forgiving but the Forgiveness of God can't be compared to that of His Creation. God is the one that gives life,resurrects the death,Jesus phub resurrected the death with the permission of God.
So if humans do create something in the future it will be with God's permission and will. The way that God creates will always be unique and can't be compared.
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As an atheist, so do I. Except, of course, that I don't think there is a divine grace acting on us.
The hypothetical ability of eventually creating life "in vitro" is no more suportive of atheism than (for instance) the ability of building radios and airplanes.
Some things are achievable by humans, others are not. Time and other circunstances change the compositions of both sets. That is simply how it happens.
I don't have much of a problem with people being certain that, for whatever reasons, some things will always be impossible for humans to achieve. Heck, I am certain myself that there will never be off-world living colonies of humans.
I just won't agree with claims that there is some sort of certainty that some things are inherently beyond human means because divine plans make it so. And even then, that is only because I don't think there is any evidence of the actual existence of any god.
Then again, I don't think I would have a lot of interest in a god that values boundaries and protocol over morality and virtue even if I knew of his existence as a fact and he happened came to me in person to ask for his cooperation very nicely. Gods are supposed to earn their respect, far as I am concerned.
No this is an actual experiment where the proposal has been achieved, the synthetically made cell has actually taken o nutrients, grown and replicated for three generations. They are not speculating. They have done it and they are reporting it. See below the actual images of the experiment as well as the schematic.
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A recursive vesicle-based model protocell with a primitive model cell cycle : Nature Communications
We found that four discrete phases (ingestion, replication, maturity and division) emerged spontaneously during our pursuit of a constructive approach towards a recursive model protocell. Our model protocell completed this primitive model cell cycle, in which individual processes in each phase collaborated with the next, specifically responding to external stimuli from the environment.
(a) Self-proliferation of GV (Giant Vesicle) -based model protocell from 1st generation to 3rd generation. DNA amplification in mother GV was followed by the first division to give rise to daughter GVs. Ingestion of dNTP in conveyer GV by daughter GVs and DNA amplification in daughter GV led the second division to give granddaughter GVs (bottom). (b) Differential interface contrast microscope image of DNA-amplified daughter GV (left). Fluorescence microscope images of the red fluorescence emitted from the vesicular membrane (center) and the green fluorescence from inside the daughter GV (right). Scale bar, 10 μm. (c) Division of the daughter GV to afford granddaughter GVs by the addition of precursor V* of the membrane lipid. Scale bar, 20 μm.
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FearGod
Freedom Of Mind
Yes we can create but not life, soul and spirit is beyond our knowledge and God confirmed it in the quran
that we have no knowledge regarding life (soul & spirit), so if humans can know how to create life
then that means God's word failed (maazallah).
No they won't create life because God had confirmed that we won't know the secrets of life but a little,
miracles for the prophets such as Jesus resurrecting the dead was to support Jesus in spreading the message
and hence it's clear that blind faith can't work alone otherwise why the prophets were supported with the miracles and
the most important one in our recent days as I see it and I think you're seeing it are the prophecies which are
happening and fulfilled as it has been foretold.
That being said, I respect your opinion and @Kirran that creating life by humans won't change your belief about God but I only disagree with both of you.