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Jesus' Sacrifice

Grandliseur

Well-Known Member
If Jesus' gave up his life via suicide by roman soldier; then why is suicide considered a sin?
It is not suicide when other kill you. The fact that at times people peacefully stay and uphold their principles despite a death sentence is not wrong.

As to suicide, there is very little said about it in the Bible; though, churches will claim all kinds of things. The reason is simple, each suicide is judged by its own merits. Some will surely be found innocent (so to say) and others not.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes, why would an all loving god or father supposedly send his child to be tormented and murdered?
I think the question is, "why would a Father let his son go fight a war"
 

arthra

Baha'i
If Jesus' gave up his life via suicide by roman soldier; then why is suicide considered a sin?

If we define suicide as

".... the act or an instance of taking one's own life voluntarily and intentionally"

Jesus being crucified and martyred for His beliefs was not a suicide. The entire ministry of Jesus was from the beginning a threat to the established ecclesiastical authorities and of course Jesus knew this... His mission was to save others and He was willing to risk His life for the Cause.

Suicide is when Judas hanged himself:

Matthew 27:5 Throwing down the pieces of silver in the temple, he departed; and he went and hanged himself.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
If Jesus' gave up his life via suicide by roman soldier; then why is suicide considered a sin?
Can't really be concidered giving up up his life when people say that Jesus rose again. Kinda moots the whole question.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
How does any of that address my post?
you said the point was moot. it isn't whether jesus was god or not. it would make jesus a hypocrite; which supposedly was a title assigned to the pharisees for not following the Law. again a person cannot assign a rule and then break it, not even the god who supposedly gave it.

you can be within the Law, or the Law. you can be subject to the law, or liable, but nothing can be above the law.
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
It is not suicide when other kill you. The fact that at times people peacefully stay and uphold their principles despite a death sentence is not wrong.

As to suicide, there is very little said about it in the Bible; though, churches will claim all kinds of things. The reason is simple, each suicide is judged by its own merits. Some will surely be found innocent (so to say) and others not.

it is if you planned it that way.

also known as suicide by cop, or assisted suicide.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
If Jesus' gave up his life via suicide by roman soldier; then why is suicide considered a sin?
upload_2017-5-25_21-33-39.jpeg


Matthew 26:36-39 New International Version (NIV)

Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

Jesus knew his time of death nears, he is filled with distress. That is why he said: "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death."

Before they went to Gethsemane, he had supper with his disciples and said this:

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

He knew that the new covenant will be sealed in his blood, his sacrifice. That cup means his suffering and death. That is why he prayed and said "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" He was scared and afraid, praying to God if it is possible that the cup be taken from him.


But he was obedient, knowing that the Messiah must suffer these things.

Luke 24:25-27 Good News Translation (GNT)

Then Jesus said to them, “How foolish you are, how slow you are to believe everything the prophets said! Was it not necessary for the Messiah to suffer these things and then to enter his glory?” And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets.

If Jesus is a god, he would be invincible and he would easily smite his oppressors, wouldn't he?
images


But the fact is Jesus is a man, and as a man he is mortal. And he knew he could be killed, that is why he said:

John 8:40 New King James Version (NKJV)

But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.
 
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Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
I think the question is, "why would a Father let his son go fight a war"
no, that isn't what the majority of christians believe. there is a difference in fighting the good fight and commiting suicide.

they use john 3:15 as their reasoning of sent = killed.

indifference to wrong is still unacceptable. that is apathy.


FYI, all prophets are sent. Jesus repeats over and over that he was sent.


Exodus 3:13-16
13 And Moses said unto God, Behold, when I come unto the children of Israel, and shall say unto them, The God of your fathers hath sent me unto you; and they shall say to me, What is his name? what shall I say unto them? 14 And God said unto Moses, I Am That I Am: and he said, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, I Am hath sent me unto you.
15 And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, the Lord God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations.


Jesus reiterates this

John 5:43
I am come in my Father's name, and you receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him you will receive.


so the name isn't Jesus, it's I AM
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
View attachment 17691

Matthew 26:36-39 New International Version (NIV)

Then Jesus went with his disciples to a place called Gethsemane, and he said to them, “Sit here while I go over there and pray.” He took Peter and the two sons of Zebedee along with him, and he began to be sorrowful and troubled. Then he said to them, “My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death. Stay here and keep watch with me.

Going a little farther, he fell with his face to the ground and prayed, “My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.”

Jesus knew his time of death nears, he is filled with distress. That is why he said: "My soul is overwhelmed with sorrow to the point of death."

Before they went to Gethsemane, he had supper with his disciples and said this:

Luke 22:20
In the same way, after the supper he took the cup, saying, “This cup is the new covenant in my blood, which is poured out for you.

He knew that the new covenant will be sealed in his blood, his sacrifice. That cup means his suffering and death. That is why he prayed and said "My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will" He was scared and afraid, praying to God if it is possible that the cup be taken from him.

View attachment 17692

But he was obedient, knowing that the Messiah must suffer these things.

Luke 24:25-27 Good News Translation (GNT)

Then Jesus said to them, “How foolish you are, how slow you are to believe everything the prophets said! Was it not necessary for the Messiah to suffer these things and then to enter his glory?” And Jesus explained to them what was said about himself in all the Scriptures, beginning with the books of Moses and the writings of all the prophets.

If Jesus is a god, he would be invincible and he would easily smite his oppressors, wouldn't he?
images


But the fact is Jesus is a man, and as a man he is mortal. And he knew he could be killed, that is why he said:

John 8:40 New King James Version (NKJV)

But now you seek to kill Me, a Man who has told you the truth which I heard from God. Abraham did not do this.


its the difference between being a servant to the omnipresent and the servant to self. the selfish aren't going to lay down and die, they're going to kill.
 

Jeremiahcp

Well-Known Jerk
you said the point was moot. it isn't whether jesus was god or not. it would make jesus a hypocrite; which supposedly was a title assigned to the pharisees for not following the Law. again a person cannot assign a rule and then break it, not even the god who supposedly gave it.

you can be within the Law, or the Law. you can be subject to the law, or liable, but nothing can be above the law.

If he was God it would not make him a hypocrite, because he was a GOD and the rules that apply to humans do not apply to GODS.

If he was not a god, so what, yet another hypocritical human, get over it.

"you can be within the Law, or the Law. you can be subject to the law, or liable, but nothing can be above the law."

So then you think dogs should have the same rights as humans?
 

Fool

ALL in all
Premium Member
If he was God it would not make him a hypocrite, because he was a GOD and the rules that apply to humans do not apply to GODS.

If he was not a god, so what, yet another hypocritical human, get over it.

"you can be within the Law, or the Law. you can be subject to the law, or liable, but nothing can be above the law."

So then you think dogs should have the same rights as humans?


the Law doesn't specify human vs gods; especially if humans are both divine and human. the Law isn't based on forms. its based on actions.

first you tell me to get over it and then inquire about dogs. interesting.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
If Jesus' gave up his life via suicide by roman soldier; then why is suicide considered a sin?

Jesus was told to die for other people's sins. It wasn't his wish but that of his father. Suicide is seen as bad because you are killing yourself (having control of your own life) where believers feel god has control of life and death. That's why jesus could not commit suicide because he opt for letting his father choose whether he lives or dies. He wanted to live; but, he chose his father's choice instead.
 

Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
If Jesus' gave up his life via suicide by roman soldier; then why is suicide considered a sin?

It wasn't really a suicide. Then again, it wasn't really much of a sacrifice either. Nor, does it logically save anyone else from anything.

In other words, the myth has all sorts of problems, but it being a suicide isn't really one of them.
 

Ponder This

Well-Known Member
"Why is suicide considered a sin?" I don't know.
Suicide is the intentional taking of one's own life.
There are various dogma explanations, but it seems to me that the essential bit it that it is considered a selfish act. The person committing suicide isn't thinking about others. Who does suicide affect? Other people.

Also, I think the question gets deeper the more you explore it.
Suicide may be preferred over committing certain other sins.
Suicide may be justified to help others.
The religious connotations go beyond the mere act of killing oneself intentionally and delves into the question of why one is killing oneself to begin with. And usually the answer is "I am being selfish" and not "I am trying to help others". So obviously, Christians will regard the case of Jesus as exceptional. If you can't see why that is from a basic read of the New Testament (that is, you still think Jesus died as an act of selfishness), then I'm not sure anyone can really explain it to you. The consensus among Christians is that Jesus died to save us and you either believe that or you don't.
 

MJFlores

Well-Known Member
its the difference between being a servant to the omnipresent and the servant to self. the selfish aren't going to lay down and die, they're going to kill.

That is correct - Jesus is the servant of God

Acts 3:13
The God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, the God of our fathers, has glorified his servant Jesus. You handed him over to be killed, and you disowned him before Pilate, though he had decided to let him go.

It wasn't suicide, it was murder and this we can read from the Bible:

Acts 7:52
Was there ever a prophet your ancestors did not persecute? They even killed those who predicted the coming of the Righteous One. And now you have betrayed and murdered him—

The Israelite Jews had a choice, but no they said:
upload_2017-5-26_8-57-38.jpeg
 
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