Trump asked Comey not to investigate Flynn

Dirty Penguin · May 19, 2017

Wirey said:
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/05/16/...ey-trump-flynn-russia-investigation.html?_r=0

Impeachable?

With this congress I doubt it.

These guys love power more than anything else it seems. It's a tall task to impeach when all you have to do is stick your fingers in your ears and cover your eyes. This way they won't have to face the backlash from the base....Plus it's easier to play the ignore game when you got a president ready to rubber stamp your agenda...

esmith · May 22, 2017

I was watching a program on TV and the guest said that if Comey was convinced that President Trump attempted to "obstruct justice" and Comey did not report it to his superior at the DOJ then he himself has broken the law.
From Source

Under the law, Comey is required to immediately inform the Department of Justice of any attempt to obstruct justice by any person, even the President of the United States. Failure to do so would result in criminal charges against Comey. (18 USC 4 and 28 USC 1361) He would also, upon sufficient proof, lose his license to practice law.

Now those of you that dismiss a article because of the source I suggest you look up 18 USC 4 and 28 USC1361. Tell you what since I'm such a nice guy I will provide them for you.
18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony
Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 684; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(G), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

28 U.S. Code § 1361 - Action to compel an officer of the United States to perform his duty
The district courts shall have original jurisdiction of any action in the nature of mandamus to compel an officer or employee of the United States or any agency thereof to perform a duty owed to the plaintiff.
(Added Pub. L. 87–748, § 1(a), Oct. 5, 1962, 76 Stat. 744.)

Now do any of you think that Comey is stupid enough to not comply with the above?

columbus · May 22, 2017

esmith said:
Now do any of you think that Comey is stupid enough to not comply with the above?

What makes you think he didn't?
Suppose he had sent a memo to Jeff Sessions. Then what do you suppose would happen? Maybe Comey gets fired?
Tom

leibowde84 · May 22, 2017

sunrise123 said:
Some of you should hang out with my friends and experience the difference between our complaisant attitude before 2016 which we did get many more votes just not in the right places and now when we're fired up more than I can remember including the 1960's.

But if you're apathetic about the cancerous slime mold eating away at American ideals and strength in Washington and destroying our future, there's not much I can say except don't try to bring down those fired up to change things.

Change is fine. It's just how could anyone fall for a slimeball like Trump. His business practices, demeanor and bullying nature put all politicians to shame.

leibowde84 · May 22, 2017

esmith said:
I was watching a program on TV and the guest said that if Comey was convinced that President Trump attempted to "obstruct justice" and Comey did not report it to his superior at the DOJ then he himself has broken the law.
From Source

Now those of you that dismiss a article because of the source I suggest you look up 18 USC 4 and 28 USC1361. Tell you what since I'm such a nice guy I will provide them for you.
18 U.S. Code § 4 - Misprision of felony
Whoever, having knowledge of the actual commission of a felony cognizable by a court of the United States, conceals and does not as soon as possible make known the same to some judge or other person in civil or military authority under the United States, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than three years, or both.

(June 25, 1948, ch. 645, 62 Stat. 684; Pub. L. 103–322, title XXXIII, § 330016(1)(G), Sept. 13, 1994, 108 Stat. 2147.)

28 U.S. Code § 1361 - Action to compel an officer of the United States to perform his duty
The district courts shall have original jurisdiction of any action in the nature of mandamus to compel an officer or employee of the United States or any agency thereof to perform a duty owed to the plaintiff.
(Added Pub. L. 87–748, § 1(a), Oct. 5, 1962, 76 Stat. 744.)

Now do any of you think that Comey is stupid enough to not comply with the above?

I don't think Comey thought he had enough evidence to convict Trump on obstruction charges. He was probably collecting evidence until he thought there was enough to actually indict. That is called being responsible.

I don't think he was confident enough that Trump was obstructing. He was just suspicious. So, he didn't violate any laws.

esmith · May 22, 2017

leibowde84 said:
I don't think Comey thought he had enough evidence to convict Trump on obstruction charges. He was probably collecting evidence until he thought there was enough to actually indict. That is called being responsible.

I don't think he was confident enough that Trump was obstructing. He was just suspicious. So, he didn't violate any laws.

So if that is true then all the hubbub about impeaching President Trump of obstruction of justice is nothing more than wishful thinking, correct?

leibowde84 · May 22, 2017

esmith said:
So if that is true then all the hubbub about impeaching President Trump of obstruction of justice is nothing more than wishful thinking, correct?

All the talk is that impeachment is a ways away. Even the vast majority of staunch Democrats still see it this way.

But, the likelihood of Trump having obstructed justice (or at least intended to) is gaining momentum. And, it is 100% Trump's own doing. His behavior, words, tweets, etc. all seem to raise suspicion. It's up to him to keep his mouth shut and ignore the media and this investigation, cooperate in any way that he can, and stop calling it a "hit job"/"witch hunt". That makes him look guilty.

And, he himself stated that only guilty people plead the fifth. So, he'd better hope that Flynn and his other peeps don't do it. If they do, he is going to be held accountable and his words during the campaign will be held against him. That is only fair.

fantome profane · May 22, 2017

leibowde84 said:
I don't think Comey thought he had enough evidence to convict Trump on obstruction charges. He was probably collecting evidence until he thought there was enough to actually indict. That is called being responsible.

I don't think he was confident enough that Trump was obstructing. He was just suspicious. So, he didn't violate any laws.

But that might have been Comey's view of the situation before he was fired. The actual firing of Comey changes the landscape considerably.

esmith said:
So if that is true then all the hubbub about impeaching President Trump of obstruction of justice is nothing more than wishful thinking, correct?

You have to look not only at Trump's words, but also his actions. It is one thing for Trump to ask Comey to lay off on the Flynn investigation or to ask for a loyalty oath. But after Comey refused Trump and then Comey gets fired, that is what looks like interference in the investigation and obstruction of justice.

esmith · May 22, 2017

fantome profane said:
But that might have been Comey's view of the situation before he was fired. The actual firing of Comey changes the landscape considerably.

You have to look not only at Trump's words, but also his actions. It is one thing for Trump to ask Comey to lay off on the Flynn investigation or to ask for a loyalty oath. But after Comey refused Trump and then Comey gets fired, that is what looks like interference in the investigation and obstruction of justice.

Was Comey directing the investigation and if so by him being fired does that stop the investigation. The answer is no, it does not stop the investigation. The FBI Director serves at the pleasure of the President. Where did you get the idea the the President asked Comey for a "loyalty oath"? Again you say looking at the Presidents words and actions. What actions and words are you referring to that has any bearing on the presumption of "obstructing justice". You also indicate the Comey didn't think the President was trying to coerce him prior to being fired, then you indicate Comey might have change his mind after being fired. That does not compute in a legal issue.

fantome profane · May 22, 2017

esmith said:
Was Comey directing the investigation and if so by him being fired does that stop the investigation.

The question is did Trump think it would stop, or impede the investigation. And from Trump's words to the Russian ambassador I think that was Trump's intention.

esmith said:
Where did you get the idea the the President asked Comey for a "loyalty oath"?

From Comey's statements, which I do believe to be truthful. He will repeat these statements when he testifies before congress.

esmith said:
Again you say looking at the Presidents words and actions. What actions and words are you referring to that has any bearing on the presumption of "obstructing justice".

I am refering to the action of firing Comey, after being refused, leads to the reasonable assumption (I admit it is an assumption, but a reasonable one) that Comey was fired because he refused the President. That is obstruction.

esmith said:
You also indicate the Comey didn't think the President was trying to coerce him prior to being fired

I did not say that, leibowde84 said that. I only agree that is possible. And yes if that is what Comey thought it is very likely that the fact of him being fired would change that impression.

Nous · May 22, 2017

esmith said:
Was Comey directing the investigation and if so by him being fired does that stop the investigation. The answer is no, it does not stop the investigation.

One does not have to cause an investigation to stop in order to commit the felony of obstruction of justice.

What actions and words are you referring to that has any bearing on the presumption of "obstructing justice".

Trump seeking a loyalty oath from Comey and asking Comey to drop the investigation against Flynn, neither of which Comey complied with, then Trump firing Comey, was an endeavor with a corrupt purpose "to influence or impede the due and proper administration of the law under which [a] pending proceeding is being had before any department or agency of the United States". 18 U.S. Code § 1505 - Obstruction of proceedings before departments, agencies, and committees

columbus · May 22, 2017

esmith said:
So if that is true then all the hubbub about impeaching President Trump of obstruction of justice is nothing more than wishful thinking, correct?

No.
It's an evidence based accusation that needs to be handled carefully.
Sweeping the whole thing under the rug, while giving time for Putin to help Trump quash the investigation, is not in the best interests of the USA.
Now we need not only an independent investigation into Trump's staff's Russian connections, but another one into Trump's international dealings, and one into the firing of the investigation team....

Trump keeps making this worse the way a liar does by saying and doing things that don't comport with innocence.
Tom

Trump asked Comey not to investigate Flynn

Dirty Penguin

Master Of Ceremony

esmith

Veteran Member

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn

leibowde84

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leibowde84

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esmith

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leibowde84

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fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice

esmith

Veteran Member

fantome profane

Anti-Woke = Anti-Justice

Nous

Well-Known Member

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn