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Homosexuality on the bible?

caminante

Member
i'm really not acknowledged of the bible passages, so i would like to know, if anyof you knows, where in the bible is that they speak of homosexuality, where does it say that is bad?

and if it doesn't say, when did the catholic church came up with the idea of forbiding homosexuality?
 

michel

Administrator Emeritus
Staff member
There have been a few threads on this before; you could look at :-

a)http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=5871&highlight=homosexuality+bible

Which starts off (most aptly) with:-
HOMOSEXUALITY: What the Bible Does & Does Not Say (originally posted by Pah 11-23-2004)

http://www.baptistwatch.org/content/notasin.html


HOMOSEXUALITY: Not a Sin, Not a Sickness
What the Bible Does & Does Not Say

HOMOSEXUALITY & THE CHURCH:
The most beautiful word in the Gospel of Jesus Christ is "whosoever." All of God's promises are intended for every human being. This includes gay men and lesbians. How tragic it is that the Christian Church has excluded and persecuted people who are homosexual!

an extract from the opening post:-

EZEKIAL 16:48-50 states it clearly: The people of Sodom, like many people today, had abundance of material goods. But they failed to meet the needs of the poor, and they worshipped idols. The sins of injustice and idolatry plague every generation. We stand under the same judgment if we create false gods or treat others with injustice.


LEVITICUS 18:22 & 20:13
Christians today do not follow the rules and rituals described in Leviticus. But some ignore its definitions of their own "uncleanness" while quoting Leviticus to condemn "homosexuals." Such abuse of Scripture distorts the Old Testament
meaning and denies a New Testament message. "You shall not lie with a male as one lies with a female; it is an abomination." These words occur solely in the Holiness Code of Leviticus, a ritual manual for Israel's priests. Their meaning can only be fully appreciated in the historical and cultural context of the ancient Hebrew people. Israel, in a unique place as the chose people of one God, was to avoid the practices of other peoples and gods.
Hebrew religion, characterized by the revelation of one God, stood in continuous tension with the religion of the surrounding Canaanites who worshipped the multiple gods of fertility cults. Canaanite idol worship, which featured female and male cult prostitution as noted in Deuteronomy 23:17, repeatedly compromised Israel's loyalty to God. The Hebrew word for a male cult prostitute, qadesh, is mistranslated "sodomite" in some versions of the Bible.
What is an "Abomination"?
An abomination is that which God found detestable because it was unclean, disloyal, or unjust. Several Hebrew words were so translated, and the one found in Leviticus, toevah, is usually associated with idolatry, as in Ezekiel, where it occurs numerous times. Given the strong association of toevah with idolatry and the canaanite religious practice of cult prostitution, the use of toevah regarding male same-sex acts in Leviticus calls into question any conclusion that such condemnation also applies to loving, responsible homosexual relationships.
Rituals and rules found in the Old Testament were given to preserve the distinctive characteristics of the religion and culture of Israel. But, as stated in Galatians 3:22-25, Christians are no longer bound by these Jewish laws. By faith we live in Jesus Christ, not in Leviticus. To be sure, ethical concerns apply to all cultures and peoples in every age. Such concerns were ultimately reflected by Jesus Christ, who said nothing about homosexuality, but a great deal about love, justice, mercy and faith.


ROMANS 1:24-27
Most New Testament books, including the four Gospels, are silent on same-sex acts, and Paul is the only author who makes any reference to the subject. The most negative statement by Paul regarding same-sex acts occurs in Romans 1:24-27 where, in the context of a larger argument on the need of all people for the gospel of Jesus Christ, certain homosexual behavior is given as an example of the "uncleanness" of idolatrous Gentiles.
Does this passage refer to all homosexual acts, or to certain homosexual behavior known to Paul's readers? Romans was written to Jewish and Gentile Christians in Rome, who would have been familiar with the infamous sexual excesses of their contemporaries, especially Roman emperors. They would also have been aware of tensions in the early Church regarding Gentiles and observance of the Jewish laws, as noted in Acts 15 and Paul's letter to the Galatians. Jewish laws in Leviticus mentioned male same-sex acts in the context of idolatry.
What is "Natural"?
Significant to Paul's discussion is the fact that these "unclean" Gentiles exchanged that which was "natural" for them, physin, in the Greek text, for something "unnatural," para physin. In Romans 11:24, God acts in an "unnatural" way, para physin, to accept the Gentiles. "Unnatural" in these passages does not refer to violation of so-called laws of nature, but rather implies action contradicting one's own nature. In view of this, we should observe that it is "unnatural," para physin, for a person today with a lesbian or gay sexual orientation to attempt living a heterosexual lifestyle.
Romans 1:26 is the only statement in the Bible with a possible reference to lesbian behavior, although the specific intent of this verse is unclear. Some authors have seen in this passage a reference to women adopting a dominant role in heterosexual relationships. Given the repressive cultural expectations placed on women in Paul's time, such a meaning may be possible.
The homosexual practices cited in Romans 1:24-27 were believed to result from idolatry and are associated with some very serious offenses as noted in Romans 1. Taken in this larger context, it should be obvious that such acts are significantly different from loving, responsible lesbian and gay relationships seen today.

I CORINTHIANS 6:9 & I TIMOTHY 1:10
Any consideration of New Testament statements on same-sex acts must carefully view the social context of the Greco-Roman culture in which Paul ministered. Prostitution and pederasty (sexual relationships of adult men with boys) were the most commonly known male same-sex acts.
In I Corinthians 6:9, Paul condemns those who are "effeminate" and "abusers of themselves with mankind," as translated in the King James version. Unfortunately, some new translations are worse, rendering these words "homosexuals." Recent scholarship unmasks the homophobia behind such mistranslations. The first word - malakos, in the Greek text-which has been translated "effeminate" or "soft," most likely refers to someone who lacks discipline or moral control. The word is used elsewhere in the New Testament but never with reference to sexuality.
The second word, arsenokoitai, occurs once each in I Corinthians and I Timothy, but nowhere else in other literature of the period. It is derived from two Greek words, one meaning, "males" and the other "beds", a euphemism for sexual intercourse. Other Greek words were commonly used to describe homosexual behavior but do not appear here. The larger context of I Corinthians 6 shows Paul extremely concerned with prostitution, so it is very possible he was referring to male prostitutes. But many experts now attempting to translate these words have reached a simple conclusion: their precise meaning is uncertain.
No Law Against Love:
The rarity with which Paul discusses any form of same-sex behavior and the ambiguity in references attributed to him make it extremely unsound to conclude any sure position in the New Testament on homosexuality, especially in the context of loving, responsible relationships. Since any arguments must be made from silence, it is much more reliable to turn to great principles of the Gospel taught by Jesus Christ and the Apostles. Love God with all your heart, and love your neighbor as yourself. Do not judge others, lest you be judged. The fruit of the Holy Spirit is love . . . against such there is no law.
One thing is abundantly clear, as Paul stated in Galatians 5:14:
"...the whole Law is fulfilled in one statement,
'You shall love your neighbor as yourself".


(please see original thread for the entire post)

b)http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3561&highlight=homosexuality+bible
 

Deut 13:1

Well-Known Member
caminante said:
i'm really not acknowledged of the bible passages, so i would like to know, if anyof you knows, where in the bible is that they speak of homosexuality, where does it say that is bad?

and if it doesn't say, when did the catholic church came up with the idea of forbiding homosexuality?
Taken from here.
Forbidden Sexual Relations
  1. Not to indulge in familiarities with relatives, such as kissing, embracing, winking, skipping, which may lead to incest (Lev. 18:6) (CCN110).
  2. Not to commit incest with one's mother (Lev. 18:7) (CCN112). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  3. Not to commit sodomy with one's father (Lev. 18:7) (CCN111).
  4. Not to commit incest with one's father's wife (Lev. 18:8) (CCN113). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  5. Not to commit incest with one's sister (Lev. 18:9) (CCN127). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  6. Not to commit incest with one's father's wife's daughter (Lev. 18:11) (CCN128). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  7. Not to commit incest with one's son's daughter (Lev. 18:10) (CCN119) (Note: CC treats this and the next as one commandment; however, Rambam treats them as two). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  8. Not to commit incest with one's daughter's daughter (Lev. 18:10) (CCN119) (Note: CC treats this and the previous as one commandment; however, Rambam treats them as two). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  9. Not to commit incest with one's daughter (this is not explicitly in the Torah but is inferred from other explicit commands that would include it) (CCN120). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  10. Not to commit incest with one's fathers sister (Lev. 18:12) (CCN129). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  11. Not to commit incest with one's mother's sister (Lev. 18:13) (CCN130). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  12. Not to commit incest with one's father's brothers wife (Lev. 18:14) (CCN125). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  13. Not to commit sodomy with one's father's brother (Lev. 18:14) (CCN114).
  14. Not to commit incest with one's son's wife (Lev. 18:15) (CCN115). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  15. Not to commit incest with one's brother's wife (Lev. 18:16) (CCN126). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  16. Not to commit incest with one's wife's daughter (Lev. 18:17) (CCN121). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  17. Not to commit incest with the daughter of one's wife's son (Lev. 18:17) (CCN122). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  18. Not to commit incest with the daughter of one's wife's daughter (Lev. 18:17) (CCN123). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  19. Not to commit incest with one's wife's sister (Lev. 18:18) (CCN131). See Prohibited Marriages and Illegitimate Children.
  20. Not to have intercourse with a woman, in her menstrual period (Lev. 18:19) (CCN132).
  21. Not to have intercourse with another man's wife (Lev. 18:20) (CCN124).
  22. Not to commit sodomy with a male (Lev. 18:22) (CCN116).
  23. Not to have intercourse with a beast (Lev. 18:23) (CCN117).
  24. That a woman shall not have intercourse with a beast (Lev. 18:23) (CCN118).
  25. Not to castrate the male of any species; neither a man, nor a domestic or wild beast, nor a fowl (Lev. 22:24) (CCN143).
 

caminante

Member
thank you guys...althought, i'm still confused, i guess is more of something cultural....however, i was listening a speech from the pope (ratzinger) where he sayed that gey marriage was not allowed...so i guess he bases his statement in the fact that a gay marriage "wouldn't be able to procreate", however they DO can adopt and have kids through other ways...so i wonder, why does the pope opose to gay marriage, from where does he bases his ideas?
 

Mike182

Flaming Queer
caminante said:
i'm really not acknowledged of the bible passages, so i would like to know, if anyof you knows, where in the bible is that they speak of homosexuality, where does it say that is bad?
romans 1 for a start.

Genesis 1 does not explicitly argue against homosexuality (i don't think the creation can be used against homosexuality at all, but some try to argue it)

Soddom, though i can't remember the actual reference.
and if it doesn't say, when did the catholic church came up with the idea of forbiding homosexuality?
what's with this?
 

robtex

Veteran Member
MOD POST:

Nothing heated has happened yet but given the topic I am aware that the thread has the propensity for a heated exchange. I would like to ask you that if this topic is too sensative of an issue for you to debate without losing your cool please skip over this thread. If you are getting hot under the collar reading the posts go to another thread until you cool off. There is nothing in this thread nor will there ever be worth you getting high blood pressure over. Just do me a favor and leave your temper at the door before checking into this thread and if you have one while you are typing look very closely at what you are saying before you hit the "post quick reply" key.
 

caminante

Member
hey, please guys...i'm just trying to get informed, i would respect any of your posts...althought, i still don't know why the catholic roman church, opposes so extrictly to gey marriage and homosexuality, and honestly, i would like to know of from the word of a conservative catholic why is it bad...thats it...i'm just trying to learn:eek:
 

robtex

Veteran Member
caminante said:
hey, please guys...i'm just trying to get informed, i would respect any of your posts...althought, i still don't know why the catholic roman church, opposes so extrictly to gey marriage and homosexuality, and honestly, i would like to know of from the word of a conservative catholic why is it bad...thats it...i'm just trying to learn:eek:

You're fine. The mod posts are just to keep things from gettting heated on sensative topics or in the aftermath of a hot thread..which this thread has not become at any time. Back to the debate:yes:
 
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